Online sales sites - cheque scam

JessieJames

I'm not sure if this belongs here so mods feel free to move..

i feel that i need to get this out there because up until recently i was unaware of it myself...

I had got my BF a psp for xmass (well got it for him b4 hand and couldn't resist giving him an early pressie ) after only a few uses he got bored and we decided to sell it via buy and sell. since i have the internet and he doesnt i took it upon myself to do an add on the buy & sell website (which i thought was only for ROI users as i had never sold anything on it before) was selling console for €200 along with games and films. within a week floods of mails were coming in. this one guy offered the €200 so i mailed him accepting his offer.

he had told me he will sort out money for shipping / collecting etc. we only ever communicated through email because it was the most convinient for me. he emailed saying that he had sent the money in the post to me and i should recieve it in the next few days he stated that he will wait until i have recieved the money and everything was ok to send the courier. he had said that he is sending a courier to my address to pick it up and would need my address and a contact No.

sure enough the money came in the post which turned out to be £2,000 cheque. i thought it was a mistake so i mailed straight away stating the abount and he said that i am to take my €200 and send the rest to the courier (which had to be sent via western union) i immediately suspected something was wrong so i just sent all the money(because i wanted nothing more to do with him) and cut off communication and went to the gards who stated that it will most likely have been a scammer and hat the cheque would have been stolen and it would bounce and the money will be taken out of my account and i would be down €2440:( lucky enough i contacted the bank and it was there fault for letting me withdraw the money b4 it cleared so i was not in debt:).- this is the short version:rolleyes: but mostly the jist of what happened.

Has this happened to anyone else?? i felt like an idiot after it happened but then i realised just how easy it could happen...

jor el

This is a well known scam, and does not effect just Buy and Sell, it's rife in any online, or through the post, sales.

JessieJames wrote: »

i immediately suspected something was wrong so i just sent all the money(because i wanted nothing more to do with him)

I lucky enough i contacted the bank and it was there fault for letting me withdraw the money b4 it cleared so i was not in debt:).- this is the short version:rolleyes: but mostly the jist of what happened.

Did you actually lodge the cheque, and send cash back to the scammer? I really hope I'm reading this wrong, and you didn't do that, because if you did, you're money is gone. The bank does not cover people for stolen cheques, and most banks will allow you to draw on an uncleared cheque, meaning you're out of pocket when the cheque comes bouncing back.

Nody

jor el wrote: »

This is a well known scam, and does not effect just Buy and Sell, it's rife in any online, or through the post, sales.

Had the same, stolen company cheque which cleared fine after the standard 7 days (no cash sent as the bank contacted me and I was suspicious in the first place, all reported to the police).

Did you actually lodge the cheque, and send cash back to the scammer? I really hope I'm reading this wrong, and you didn't do that, because if you did, you're money is gone. The bank does not cover people for stolen cheques, and most banks will allow you to draw on an uncleared cheque, meaning you're out of pocket when the cheque comes bouncing back.

Well if it was as in my case the cheque cleared fine after 7 days and the bank would have taken up the liability if i had used the cash if I could show I was innocent in the scam.

jor el

If the cheque was actually cleared, then you shouldn't be at faulty, but cheques can take up to 21 days to clear. Just because the money appears in your account, doesn't mean it's cleared, and banks never take responsibility here if they don't absolutely have to. If you lodge a stolen/forged cheque, it is your responsibility.

rubadub

jor el wrote: »

This is a well known scam, and does not effect just Buy and Sell, it's rife in any online, or through the post, sales.

Yeah, the title should really be changed, sort of bad mouthing buy and sell who have done nothing wrong. The thread is about dodgy cheques.

JessieJames

jor el wrote: »

This is a well known scam,

sadly it was not well known to me, i had never sold anything before and i had never heard about it happening to people..


Did you actually lodge the cheque, and send cash back to the scammer


i did lodge the cheque and withdraw it b4 it had cleared with my bank and sent all the money back, when i contacted the police they told me that the bank shouldn't have let me withdraw that amount of money in one go b4 it cleared when i explained all this to the bank they said they were at fault and i would not be out of pocket (THANK GOD!)

JessieJames

hey sorry i wasnt sure what to call it, thanks

jor el

JessieJames wrote: »

i did lodge the cheque and withdraw it b4 it had cleared with my bank and sent all the money back, when i contacted the police they told me that the bank shouldn't have let me withdraw that amount of money in one go b4 it cleared when i explained all this to the bank they said they were at fault and i would not be out of pocket (THANK GOD!)

Get that assurance in writing, from the branch manager, because regardless of what they told you, I wouldn't trust the bank to take liability for this.

There is not usually such a low limit on the amount you can withdraw at one time, there's certainly no legal limit, so I don't think the fact that they let you withdraw it before the cheque had cleared would be enough to cover you. Drawing on an uncleared cheque is common practice, but if it bounces, then they don't let you keep the cash.

JessieJames

Thankfully i got everything from the bank and gards in writing so i think as far as that goes im covered... it has been a good few weeks and everything seems to be fine ...

madmik

JessieJames wrote: »

Thankfully i got everything from the bank and gards in writing so i think as far as that goes im covered... it has been a good few weeks and everything seems to be fine ...

so basically you got to keep the 2000 euro and the psp?

something about this story doesnt add up

jor el

madmik wrote: »

so basically you got to keep the 2000 euro and the psp?

something about this story doesnt add up

The 2000 euro never existed, the cheque was fake. The scammer gets to keep the 2000 euro that JessieJames sent to them, but isn't out of pocket herself as the bank seems to be covering it.

JessieJames

madmik wrote: »

so basically you got to keep the 2000 euro and the psp?

something about this story doesnt add up

Sorry if i am not being clear enough... i sent ALL of the €2000 back to the person. when i contacted the manager of my bank i went in for a meeting, she stated that because it is such a large amount of money and an english cheque i shouldnt have been allowed to withdraw all of it b4 it had cleared.. i gave a statement of what and how it had happened she then had to send that off to there fraud dept (she had told me that it happens a lot)for some reason i got lucky and i am not out of pocket!!!!!

i do still have the psp because it was all a scam the person didnt want it in the 1st place. basically i was told its money laundering and there is no way to track the person down at all...

JJ

You are EXTREMELY lucky not to be out of pocket because of this. Any mention of Western Union should have you running a million miles away in the other direction.

The only time I've ever heard of someone getting their money back in a Western Union scam is when the person sent the money and then (for whatever reason) realised they were being scammed but the scammer hadn't picked up the money at the other end. The potential victim was able to get his money back from WU minus their commission charge, a small price to pay.

TerrorFirmer

Can't believe anyone would fall for this. You get a cheque for 2k in the post for an item worth 200, and still lodge it and send the whole lot back in cash??

Let alone the fact that you somehow aren't out of pocket, that scammer is up 2K. How an earth do people fall for these things - it's not even for an individual to be scam-wise, if you've never heard of the Internet or Western Union in your life, common sense would still tell you that you don't send large lump sums of cash from an uncleared cheque.....

Mind boggling.

JessieJames

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Can't believe anyone would fall for this. You get a cheque for 2k in the post for an item worth 200, and still lodge it and send the whole lot back in cash??

Let alone the fact that you somehow aren't out of pocket, that scammer is up 2K. How an earth do people fall for these things - it's not even for an individual to be scam-wise, if you've never heard of the Internet or Western Union in your life, common sense would still tell you that you don't send large lump sums of cash from an uncleared cheque.....

Mind boggling.

hardly mind boggling if it has happened to other people.. i was unaware of it myself up until recently when unfortunately it happened to me.. i just wanted to make more people aware and see if anyone else had fallen for a scam like this.... !

never heard of this scam myself up till recently.. unfortunately nobody ever thinks or believes that they themselves can be a victim of a scam untill it happens to them and its to late.. obviously you do not know what to think or to how react to something like this untill it happens to you personally.. so i say thank god you didn't come of worse in this scam:D

Canis Lupus

Altair47 wrote: »

never heard of this scam myself up till recently.. unfortunately nobody ever thinks or believes that they themselves can be a victim of a scam untill it happens to them and its to late.. obviously you do not know what to think or to how react to something like this untill it happens to you personally.. so i say thank god you didn't come of worse in this scam:D

No, just lots of people fail to stop and think. I spend my working day despairing at people like the OP but then.... You sorta help pay my wages in a roundabout way so I can't complain too much.

I spend my working day despairing at people like the OP but then.... You sorta help pay my wages in a roundabout way so I can't complain too much

What is it that you do?

jor el

Altair47 wrote: »

What is it that you do?

Canis is actually Mumbabis Flumbabis, the deposed former dictator ruler of Zaire, who just happens to have a diamond mine at his disposal, and may need your help in the near future...

Canis Lupus

Altair47 wrote: »

What is it that you do?

Compliance for money transfer

the groutch

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Compliance for money transfer

you're not George Agdgdgwngo, are you?

Canis Lupus

the groutch wrote: »

you're not George Agdgdgwngo, are you?

No, but if only I got a pound for everytime someone sent him money I'd be able to have a room like Scrooge McDuck full of money that I could swim in.

Sometimes (often *cough*) I think I'm in the wrong job.

The money the fraudsters make is just depressing and there is **** all you can do about it except hope people wise up. Like the OP sending 2 fing k just to be done with it......

If she was in the UK she would have had to wave goodbye to that money as the banks dont refund on this particular scam.

JJ

Mr Lupus, do money transfer services like the one you work for ask customers before they send money if they know the recipient personally or if they're sending money to pay for an item off the internet? Simple questions like that may not help stop these scams but it might help reduce them. This would be similar to baggage check in people asking you if you've packed the bag you're checking in before you board a flight.

Canis Lupus

JJ wrote: »

Mr Lupus, do money transfer services like the one you work for ask customers before they send money if they know the recipient personally or if they're sending money to pay for an item off the internet? Simple questions like that may not help stop these scams but it might help reduce them. This would be similar to baggage check in people asking you if you've packed the bag you're checking in before you board a flight.

Yup. We've even got a bit that customers have to tick that specifically asks it as well as being in the T&Cs on the back (you'd be amazed at how many people tick no and then come back later asking for their money back because the Ferrari they bought for 3 grand wasn't shipped from Romania....). I spoke to a lady the other day who has been sending to Canada since the end of December and had I think sent in excess of £15,000. We were alerted by an agent that he thought something was up and when I looked into it was 99.9999999% sure that she is the victim of lotto fraud (victim gets told they've won lotto but need to send money for fees/couriers etc and it keeps going essentially).

I ring her up (not really supposed to) and ask her what she was sending for and she tells me it was a relative she was sending to. I ask her that I know these people tell victims not to admit the truth and then explain lotto fraud.... cue long pause and then the in a lot less confident manner tell me everything is alright and ends the call. Maybe she will think about it after my call and come to the horrible realisation that she's been diddled for a substantial sum but I got the feeling that the fraudsters would convince her I was telling her rubbish and she'd go on and send the rest of her life savings.

I blocked her to save her from herself.

Canis Lupus

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Compliance for money transfer

Ok, so you would see this type of scam happening on a regular basis?

Well thats fine for you but what about the people like the OP who obviously never heard of this type of scam before it actually happened to them?
Maybe if they worked as a compliance for money transfer they would be a bit wiser too:rolleyes:

jor el

Altair47 wrote: »

Well thats fine for you but what about the people like the OP who obviously never heard of this type of scam before it actually happened to them?

If I owed you 200 euro, and sent you a cheque for 2,000 euro, would you?:
A. Send back the cheque
B. Lodge the cheque, withdraw the cash, and send that to me

The OP is extremely lucky that bank are covering this, as I have never heard of this happening. If you draw funds on a stolen/forged cheque, it is your problem when the cheque bounces back.

In this case, the scammer has gotten away with 2,000 euro.

jor el

jor el wrote: »

If I owed you 200 euro, and sent you a cheque for 2,000 euro, would you?:
A. Send back the cheque
B. Lodge the cheque, withdraw the cash, and send that to me

Ok i know what you mean and it seems very stupid when people have time to think about it after it happens as the OP said

i felt like an idiot after it happened

But what i'm just pointing out is that its very easy for people to fall for stuff like this at the time its happening as they are not thinking clearly due to panic, excitement or whatever..

And as for

If you draw funds on a stolen/forged cheque, it is your problem when the cheque bounces back

If the bank let the OP cash €2000 on a cheque that was not cleared is it not the banks fault for not letting it clear 1st?
(Just curious, i do not know the in's and out's of the way this works?)

Canis Lupus

Altair47 wrote: »

Ok, so you would see this type of scam happening on a regular basis?

Well thats fine for you but what about the people like the OP who obviously never heard of this type of scam before it actually happened to them?
Maybe if they worked as a compliance for money transfer they would be a bit wiser too:rolleyes:

All it takes is the ability to stop and think. I'm not saying everyone should be familiar with all the scams out there.

Before I went and sent 2 sodding grand to a complete stranger I would stop and ask my bank about the money lodged (was it definitely in the account, can it be taken back out?)

Then I would ask the transfer company as to whether they had heard of anything like it. I would also read the back of the form to see where I stood in the event of something going wrong and me needing a refund.

The OP even thought something was wrong but sent the money first and then asked advice from the police..... Slightly the wrong order really.

And there is even google.

But ultimately, the phrase "A fool and their money are easily parted" was coined for a reason.

Canis Lupus

Altair47 wrote: »

If the bank let the OP cash €2000 on a cheque that was not cleared is it not the banks fault for not letting it clear 1st?
(Just curious, i do not know the in's and out's of the way this works?)

Double post ftw just to answer that I don't know the situation in Ireland but in the UK the bank is not at fault. Not sure what the small print is however. The OP is exceptionally lucky in this situation to get her money back.

Canis Lupus

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Double post ftw just to answer that I don't know the situation in Ireland but in the UK the bank is not at fault. Not sure what the small print is however. The OP is exceptionally lucky in this situation to get her money back.

But isn't that very foolish of a bank to cash an uncleared foreign cheque, why don't they just wait for the cheque to clear before cashing it? or in this case wait for it to bounce then tell the person that the cheque is fake, wouldn't this help stop this scam from happening? (BTW not asking you personally, just an out loud thought:))