Home insulation scheme unveiled

BendiBus

Minister Ryan has at last introduced a scheme for home insulation. €100 million and the possibility of 4000 jobs.

This is a very positive development as it reduces energy consumption with no reduction in living standards, reduces imports of energy, saves money on household budgets and creates jobs.

However I hope it is implemented in a workable fashion and doesn't result in price gouging by suppliers, or so much red tape that it's not worth the effort.

Keep an eye on the cost of insulation materials and installation and lets see if the price rockets once the scheme is in action.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0208/environment.html

Macha

I like the way the builders and developers were allowed to get away with building the most crappy houses imaginable over the last 20 years.

And it's the taxpayer, again, that has to step in and clean up the mess. *yawn* I'm getting tired of bailing out the construction industry

zod

what website would the grant info be launched on ?

robtri

taconnol wrote: »

I like the way the builders and developers were allowed to get away with building the most crappy houses imaginable over the last 20 years.

And it's the taxpayer, again, that has to step in and clean up the mess. *yawn* I'm getting tired of bailing out the construction industry

they only got away with it because joe soap was happy to buy them quicker than they could be built....
What have you done to already bail out the construction industry????

Heroditas

robtri wrote: »

they only got away with it because joe soap was happy to buy them quicker than they could be built....
What have you done to already bail out the construction industry????

We've propped up the banks

robtri

Heroditas wrote: »

We've propped up the banks

and the question was, what have you done to prop up the construction industry...

maniac101

Heroditas wrote: »

We've propped up the banks

A large proportion of those who've joined the dole queues in the last year were employed in the construction industry. The primary aim of the scheme is to help these people get back to work. This kind of work is carried out by small contractors and their employees. The scheme will be of little interest to the large developers that perhaps you're alluding to, and will do nothing to bail out property speculators. I don't think that Sean Dunne will be running an attic insulation business any time soon!

Hopefully this will be cost-neutral to the taxpayer, if they can find a way of managing the scheme such that the grant doesn't just push up the costs of insulation by the value of the grant.

Hats off to the green party on this one though. They've managed to seize the opportunity given by the economic slowdown, to implement one of their key proposed policies for CO2 emissions reduction. It's so good that even opposition parties are trying to claim credit for it! It's clear what part of the government is coming up with good ideas.

Heroditas

robtri wrote: »

and the question was, what have you done to prop up the construction industry...

Me personally, nothing yet.
However, this scheme is great in that it will help the small contractors carry out work. It really is a win-win. They get work, we get better quality homes, and all the time the government manages to reach their Kyoto Protocol targets.
They were expecting to pay out about €300m in fines because of exceeding the Kyoto targets. Looks like the money will be available for this scheme. Brilliant news.
Coupled with the forthcoming electricity price drop and it's good news for householders.

SteM

Heroditas wrote: »

Coupled with the forthcoming electricity price drop and it's good news for householders.

Don't want to go OT but would you mind filling me in on this?

Heroditas

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=39390-qqqx=1.asp

The Commission for Energy Regulation is expected to complete a review of electricity prices by the end of this month, and announce reduced prices by the end of March. The reductions are widely believed to be in the region of 10-15 per cent.

Cookie_Monster

Heroditas wrote: »

a review of electricity prices by the end of this month, and announce reduced prices by the end of March.

WTF does it take so long, prices could easily be reduced by next week if the regulator had any kind of backbone. Surely the "price review" should have already been carried out months ago when oil first fell:mad:

Oldtree

DOEHLG announcement today:

http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/News/MainBody,19454,en.htm

SEI links:

http://www.sei.ie/Grants/Pilot_Home_Energy_Saving_Scheme/

http://www.sei.ie/Grants/Warmer_Homes_Scheme/

deadhead13

Scheme already exists for the over 65s

Macha

robtri wrote: »

and the question was, what have you done to prop up the construction industry...

Where to start?

-the recent announcement of the HomeChoice Loan scheme by the government that will cost €500m tax payers' money
-as someone else mentioned, the thousands of ex-construction workers now on the dole
-the loans to developers like Dunne that will now be paid for indirectly through the bank bailouts
-recently announced €94m scheme to build social housing (why the feck do we keep selling it off at knock-down prices???)

Then other indirect props that have come at a high cost to the rest of society:
-The failure of the government to enforce higher building regulations
-the failure of the government to enforce proper lending practices both to developers and home-owners
-fuelling of the property market to ridiculous levels ie property bubble?

I'm not saying the scheme is a bad thing but so much of the housing stock has been built to such low levels of energy efficiency and it was totally avoidable.

ascottdub

Hi,
Has anyone else noticed that with this great new scheme you must use a contractor?

Seems to me that you'd be cheaper to insulate an attic yourself than go down this road.

You don't see them trying to help the average joe by helping with materials.

Another scam I think!!! Anyone else???

spatchco

ascottdub,have to agree to the use of the word scam,i have read on this site and other web sites that trying to insulate my type of house built in 1964 is a complete waste of time ,trying to fill 9 in cavity with liquid filler is useless,and i would need at least 6 inch of insulation on inside walls which would make the rooms so much smaller at least,in my time this type of insulation as shown on news is not a succes, think i will sit tight for now and wait and see what happens

silverharp

BendiBus wrote: »

with no reduction in living standards
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0208/environment.html

I'm not knocking it per say but unless the money is coming from Europe, it has to show up somewhere as higher taxes or higher borrowing.

ascottdub

Oh, a 1964 house. Thats sounds like a losing battle. Keep it up though, you'll think of something.

I know the idea is to get people back to work, but I see a few things happening here.

The contractors will charge a bloody fortune, and some will be rip off artists and not do the job properly as we hear time & time again. It's already happened with the BER cert as I'm sure you've noticed. Different prices, startling differences in results rating, and all on 1 house

The materials in turn will go up in price to highway robbery

The paperwork will be full of so much red tape that people won't bother.

But yet, if your someone who is great at handy work, god forbid they'd give you a dig out.

Sounds alot like the affordable housing scheme that ONLY applies to NEW houses (which are built like crap I might add), that are bailing out the builders

I just want to know how low to bid on houses? I think I'll be brave and go in at 200K less. Walls need insulating, hence why I thought this scheme might benefit me. NOT!!!!
I'll probably be laughed at, but nothing to lose

BendiBus

silverharp wrote: »

I'm not knocking it per say but unless the money is coming from Europe, it has to show up somewhere as higher taxes or higher borrowing.

The money would be coming indirectly from the Middle East & Russia via lower imports of fossil fuels. Spend €100M on insulation, save €101M on natural gas and Ireland inc. is in profit. Not to mention the savings on dole, increased income tax, VAT etc. brought about by additional economic activity.

I haven't looked at the details yet, but from anything I've read so far (including this thread) the red tape and rules make it ineffective

I wonder if take up is low enough, and media coverage high enough, might the rules be relaxed?

If this guy is right, just the requirement for a Before & After BER assessment makes it more expensive to insulate your attic then DIY.

Edit: I think maybe the link above is mixing up the cost of a BER with the grant for one.

What does a BER assessment usually cost?

Húrin

BendiBus wrote: »

Minister Ryan has at last introduced a scheme for home insulation. €100 million and the possibility of 4000 jobs.

A good step which they need to take much further. When they're insulating houses that were built over the last couple of decades, they ought to make the developer foot some of the bill, and that 100m would stretch further.

Heroditas

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

WTF does it take so long, prices could easily be reduced by next week if the regulator had any kind of backbone. Surely the "price review" should have already been carried out months ago when oil first fell:mad:

About 5% of the electricity in this country is generated from oil. A study of gas prices and coal is needed.
Gas has not fallen as quickly or as much as oil.
There should be a large enough drop that will mostly negate the rise from last year (fingers crossed)

There also looks like there will be a review into gas supplies as well so we may see our Bord Gáis bills drop too in a while.

Anyway, back to the original topic ..... if savings are made on home heating with gas being burnt and electricity wasted, the country will meet its Kyoto targets for 2012 and will not have to pay fines of several hundred million €
That's where the money for this will come from. It really does pay for itself and it's a fantastic idea. Ryan is currently the only minister who is doing any sort of a half-decent job IMO

silverharp

Heroditas wrote: »

Anyway, back to the original topic ..... if savings are made on home heating with gas being burnt and electricity wasted, the country will meet its Kyoto targets for 2012 and will not have to pay fines of several hundred million €
That's where the money for this will come from. It really does pay for itself and it's a fantastic idea. Ryan is currently the only minister who is doing any sort of a half-decent job IMO

you could argue that as we will probably have 20% unemployment by then so we will have a pretty good chance of meeting the tagets. I guess see if the scheme is well run and doesnt lead to higher prices being pocketed by the companies/suppliers involved.

onedmc

robtri wrote: »

they only got away with it because joe soap was happy to buy them quicker than they could be built....
What have you done to already bail out the construction industry????

That like saying Hitler got away with what he did coz the German people let him.

robtri

onedmc wrote: »

That like saying Hitler got away with what he did coz the German people let him.

Actually its is a bit...... but thats a political debate more than a green one...
all I am saying is that the reason houses got built crappily is because people where willing to buy them that way....Most people go into business to make money and as much of it as possible.... builders are no different...
why would a builder want to spend a lot of extra money and not get as much profit when constructing these houses.....

luckat

I'm about to get my attic insulated in any case, and was delighted to hear about the grant. But the roofer who's doing the work (while separately doing other roof-fixing work) shook his head.

He's working on the house of a Green at the moment and had the grant and its system explained to him. Apparently you're required to get a BER done on the house before it's insulated (€300! Ka-ching!) and then a second BER done *after* the insulation (€300! Ka-ching! Ka-ching!)

He's going to apply for contractor status anyway - after all, if someone's getting a large job done on a roof it mightn't make much difference - but he advised me that it would only add to the cost of the job for me, and not save me money. Pfft. FF. Greens...

Heroditas

luckat wrote: »

He's working on the house of a Green at the moment and had the grant and its system explained to him. Apparently you're required to get a BER done on the house before it's insulated (€300! Ka-ching!) and then a second BER done *after* the insulation (€300! Ka-ching! Ka-ching!)

He's going to apply for contractor status anyway - after all, if someone's getting a large job done on a roof it mightn't make much difference - but he advised me that it would only add to the cost of the job for me, and not save me money. Pfft. FF. Greens...

Does the BER have to be done by a different person to the buidling contractor?
Say for example I'm a contractor who will carry out the work - couldn't I offer the pre and post BER as an extra for a bargain price, say €50?
Might get more work that way

Carlow52

luckat wrote: »

...... Apparently you're required to get a BER done on the house before it's insulated (€300! Ka-ching!) and then a second BER done *after* the insulation (€300! Ka-ching! Ka-ching!).....

Not true.

The BER is optional.
See http://www.sei.ie/Grants/Pilot_Home_Energy_Saving_Scheme/

<<There is also a grant for households who choose to get a Building Energy Rating (BER) assessment Before and After the works are completed>>

PRTFPR

Ordinary man

I intend getting the cavity walls of my house filled but i see the grant is available for 400 but the minimum grant must be over 500. I insulated my attic last year so thats not needed. No joy for me then:mad:

luckat

Carlow52 wrote: »

Not true.

The BER is optional.
See http://www.sei.ie/Grants/Pilot_Home_Energy_Saving_Scheme/

<<There is also a grant for households who choose to get a Building Energy Rating (BER) assessment Before and After the works are completed>>

PRTFPR

I think not. On that site http://www.sei.ie/Grants/Pilot_Home_Energy_Saving_Scheme/homeowner/ it says:

When can I get the work done?
In accordance with the scheme's Terms and Conditions, Grant Approval must be in place prior to any purchase of materials or commencement of works is undertaken. Since the scheme is not currently open for application you should not undertake any works yet. If you have already done so, then unfortunately you will not be eligible for a grant.

However, the Before BER can be done ahead of Grant Approval and could prove beneficial for homeowners who are uncertain about their options or what to get done first.

Carlow52

The BER is optional.

What ur link is saying is that u can get the first BER done before grant approval. This is the only work that can be done before Grant Approval.

luckat

We shall see. I've emailed to ask.