Bank of Ireland 3.5% increase in pay

waster81

Bank employees in bank of ireland getting a pay increase, months after they get €2 billion bail out!! Is this what some of our money is going towards.


http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/ideyauauoj/

Iago

It was agreed months ago, it's linked to the national pay deal that everyone else got back in November.

It's also only for staff below middle management level, so nobody at the top will benefit as a result.

in other words no it has nothing to do with where your money is going, although it's not really your money in the first place.

waster81

So if it was part of the national agreemennt towards 2016, not everyone is getting that now due to change in eonomic circumstances so why do the banks think they can pay the first part of the agreement

And i guess it is our money, we are all taxpayers so whose money are the governement giving to the banks?

Iago

It was signed off before recapitalisation was even discussed. It was simply deferred at the time, but it was always going to be paid.

So whether the government put money in or not this was going to happen.

waster81

It doesnt matter if the agreement was signed before recapitalisation was discussed.

The government have seen fit to suspend the 3.5% increase that was agreed for the public service

So to say that it was always going to be paid is simply inaccurate

MG

Politically stupid and probably not good business either but it is for the lower paid workers and is union driven.

This really puts the unions is a difficult situation. They love to talk about supporting the "wuhkin' man" - how will they spin this?

cdebru

waster81 wrote: »

It doesnt matter if the agreement was signed before recapitalisation was discussed.

The government have seen fit to suspend the 3.5% increase that was agreed for the public service

So to say that it was always going to be paid is simply inaccurate

The bank is still actually profitable so they are obliged to pay it unless they can argue an inability to pay
What the Government or any other company has done or will do is irrelevant the Pay agreement is still in place.

waster81

Pay
[FONT=Akzidenz Grotesk BE,Akzidenz Grotesk][FONT=Akzidenz Grotesk BE,Akzidenz Grotesk]1.7 It is agreed by the parties that the following basic pay terms shall apply in the Private Sector:

• A pay pause of 3 months from the expiry of the last phase of the first module under Towards 2016;
• An increase of 3.5% for the next 6 months of the Transitional Agreement as it applies in each particular employment or industry; and
• An increase of 2.5% for the next 12 months of the Transitional Agreement - except for those employees on an hourly basic rate of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Euro Sans,Euro Sans][FONT=Euro Sans,Euro Sans]€[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Akzidenz Grotesk BE,Akzidenz Grotesk][FONT=Akzidenz Grotesk BE,Akzidenz Grotesk]11 per hour or less on commencement of the second phase where a 3% increase will apply.
  

1.8 Section 1.7 shall be negotiated between employers and unions through normal industrial relations machinery, due regard being had to the economic, commercial and employment circumstances of the particular firm, employment or industry, whether arising from exchange rate movements or otherwise, and having regard to the principles at Section 1.3 above. The need for cooperation with normal ongoing change and for continued adaptation and flexibility, may include necessary measures to sustain competitiveness and employment on the implementation of Section 1.7. An employer may claim that it is not possible to pay the terms of the Transitional Agreement in full or in part and / or may seek some cost offsetting measures or may claim inability to pay the terms of the Transitional Agreement in circumstances where this would result in serious loss of competitiveness and employment. These claims will be processed in accordance with Section 1.11 below dealing with sustainability and competitiveness

The banks could claim that economic issues have changed.


[/FONT][/FONT]

waster81

Iago wrote: »

It was agreed months ago, it's linked to the national pay deal that everyone else got back in November.

It's also only for staff below middle management level, so nobody at the top will benefit as a result.

in other words no it has nothing to do with where your money is going, although it's not really your money in the first place.

whos money are the government giving to the banks?

MG

waster81 wrote: »

The banks could claim that economic issues have changed.

Then we'd see whether the unions exist for the good of the public sector or for the good of workers in the private sector

Scuba_Scoper

The recapitalisation funds are coming from the NPRF - and not from Current spend. The NPRF will receive a coupon of 8% apparently.

Not bad at all in considering the majority of investment vehicles are tanking and Euribor is @ 2.05% and inflation is for all intents and purposes negative.

So assuming the banks will not be nationalised :P (is there a tongue in cheek smiley), in 5 years time NPRF gets all the moolah back and can invest in nice risk free assets again.

Toots

waster81 wrote: »

whos money are the government giving to the banks?

do you think that the government is not going to make any money off this? the banks have to pay for the recapitalisation. maybe do a bit or research before you make comments like that.

waster81

where did i say that the governement were not going to make money off this?

The quote from the other person was

in other words no it has nothing to do with where your money is going, although it's not really your money in the first place


Maybe check what i said first

Toots85 wrote: »

do you think that the government is not going to make any money off this? the banks have to pay for the recapitalisation. maybe do a bit or research before you make comments like that.

Scuba_Scoper

waster81 wrote: »

Maybe check what i said first

With all due respect,I think you are confusing the pay increase with the recapitalisation.

BOI will pay the 3.5% from day to day bank profits. The banks are still very profitable on a day to day basis.

The recap is to improve the capital ratios in the banks so that the bond markets will not make it prohibitively expensive for the 'big two' to continue their short-term (less than 2 year expiration) funding.

'Our' money is not being used to pay the tellers to cash our cheques.

The announcement was at the very least, ill-timed.

waster81

well if im confusing the two,to say that it aint our money is crazy, whether from national pension fund, its been tax payer paying for it.

the bond markets have alreaday made their decision they are chargin us twice as much as other countries such as germany.

The point is it doesnt look good, that people over 30,000 lose their jobs in january, pension levy for some public service and then we see esb getting pay increase, now bank of ireland.

Where is the justice in employees getting increase, sharing the pain is what we were told.

Doesnt seem we are all sharing it equally.

Iago wrote: »

It was agreed months ago, it's linked to the national pay deal that everyone else got back in November.

It's also only for staff below middle management level, so nobody at the top will benefit as a result.

in other words no it has nothing to do with where your money is going, although it's not really your money in the first place.

ardmacha

The banks are still very profitable on a day to day basis.

There may be some accounting concept that you can quote to support this. But leaving aside the government aspect, a profit should mean a return to the owners. The bank shareholders have seen their capital destroyed, so even from a right wing perspective the bank should not be increasing its costs as it has failed to provide a proper return for those shareholders.

npc_100

There is a bottom line here, it is in the whole country's interest that EVERYBODY get paid as much as possible, the more pay , the more tax collected for the government to get us out of the problem.
So the Gov cant afored to give their staff more money, well the bank certainly can afford it, so let them pay it.

Scuba_Scoper

waster81:

From your other posts I see where you are coming from. Anger and resentment is good. It is cleansing and part of the healing process. Next step is acceptance.

As the great Ctrl+Alt+Delete is well underway you will see many, many job losses in the banks. Will it make you feel better? Will you feel that we are now all 'sharing the pain'?

The nation lived like a teenager on his/her first night out unsupervised. The party is now well and truly over and the hangover will eventually be felt by all.

What comes after acceptance - well that is your choice. Bitter resentment is not the path I intend to choose. Karma will sort out the wood from the chaff.
Thats my hope anyway.

ParkRunner

I was just as annoyed with the fact that:
'It has also emerged that BoI and Allied Irish Bank have paid out €500,000 each for corporate boxes at the new Lansdowne Road stadium.' The 10% reduction in living standards Brian Cowen was raving about must only apply to the sme's and the average worker.

npc_100

EF wrote: »

I was just as annoyed with the fact that:
'It has also emerged that BoI and Allied Irish Bank have paid out €500,000 each for corporate boxes at the new Lansdowne Road stadium.' The 10% reduction in living standards Brian Cowen was raving about must only apply to the sme's and the average worker.

Understandable sentiment, but what is better, the two banks keep the money as retained income, or helping support the FAI?

Part of the way out of our problems is to get money moving in the economy, if the money to the FAI helps support some jobs in the FAI, then is this not a good thing?

BuffyBot

I'm pretty sure this thread doesn't meet the

This board is for people who want to know more about Banking, Insurance and Pensions products/providers. Any topics posted here should relate to these topics.

Other forums may be more relevant for your question if it is about the state of the economy/global markets/share prices etc.

part of the charter. Pay deals, rights wrongs of said pay deals etc are better suited elsewhere..