Guinness in the UK - Red,Surger,440ml cans

Red Sleeping Beauty · 07-02-2009 7:50am #1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/aug/29/advertising3

Has anyone sampled the Guinness Red ? Thoughts, opinions ?
How did you find it versus "proper" draught Guinness ?

Have any of ye come across the Guinness surger ?
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/reviews/review.phtml/1442/2466/Guinness-Surger-drinks-device-pint.phtml

Anywhere in Ireland do Guinness Red or the Guinness Surge can and sonic plate ?

"UK" Guinness draught cans

These seem to be the only Guinness draught cans you can get in the UK. They're 440ml and have that cream design at the top of them. They don't taste the same as our normal 500ml cans. They taste lighter and slightly sweeter. Has anyone ever tried them ? I'm confused as to why they taste different if all Guinness comes from the Dublin brewery.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/aug/29/advertising3

BeerNut · 07-02-2009 1:45pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Has anyone sampled the Guinness Red ? Thoughts, opinions ?
How did you find it versus "proper" draught Guinness ?

I tried it last year. It's only marginally more tasteless than draught Guinness. Review here.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Anywhere in Ireland do Guinness Red or the Guinness Surge can and sonic plate ?

Mercifully no. Why would anyone buy a product that becomes a brick once the special cans for it are no longer made? It's the same as that proprietary beer dispenser Carlsberg do. I had thought that Diageo had ceased making the surger altogether, but I could be wrong.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

They don't taste the same as our normal 500ml cans. They taste lighter and slightly sweeter.

Have you tried tasting them blind? It can be quite revealing.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I'm confused as to why they taste different if all Guinness comes from the Dublin brewery.

Guinness, like pretty much all industrially-brewed beer, is brewed in high-gravity form and then watered down as required. The Guinness shipped to the UK is watered at a Diageo keggery over there. So if there is a difference it could be down to the English water being used. Though Diageo's process controls mean there should be no difference as they can adjust the water's chemical profile to match.

oblivious · 07-02-2009 2:38pm

Was there not something lick this ayer ago or am I wrong

BeerNut wrote: »

So if there is a difference it could be down to the English water being used. Though Diageo's process controls mean there should be no difference as they can adjust the water's chemical profile to match.

I would be surprised if they did not use reverse osmosis water and re build it back to exactly the profile they need

Red Sleeping Beauty · 07-02-2009 7:44pm

BeerNut wrote: »

I tried it last year. It's only marginally more tasteless than draught Guinness. Review here.

Good read, thank you. Interesting that you mentioned Kilkenny., a friend of mine was telling me just last night that Kilkenny is the brand that Smithwicks is sold under overseas - is this Guinness Red essentially just another attempt at that ?

BeerNut wrote: »

Mercifully no. Why would anyone buy a product that becomes a brick once the special cans for it are no longer made? It's the same as that proprietary beer dispenser Carlsberg do. I had thought that Diageo had ceased making the surger altogether, but I could be wrong.

Very good point, I am however intrigued by it. I think you could only buy the plate and cans in Tescos. Not sure if you still can though

BeerNut wrote: »

Have you tried tasting them blind? It can be quite revealing.

I haven't actually. I'm going to Scotland next week and I may buy Guinness in the airport - unfortunately due the liquid restrictions I can't bring any of these "UK" cans back.

BeerNut wrote: »

Guinness, like pretty much all industrially-brewed beer, is brewed in high-gravity form and then watered down as required. The Guinness shipped to the UK is watered at a Diageo keggery over there. So if there is a difference it could be down to the English water being used. Though Diageo's process controls mean there should be no difference as they can adjust the water's chemical profile to match.

Thank you for that

It was bugging me for ages. I had a friend who worked in the Storehouse and he kept repeating to me "All guinness is brewed in Dublin for the UK market". He never mentioned anything about the watering.

Cheers

BeerNut · 07-02-2009 7:58pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

is this Guinness Red essentially just another attempt at that ?

I don't think so -- you normally get a sweet crystal malt thing with Irish red, but there's none of that with Guinness Red. And I think Kilkenny is still on the UK market. If you're looking for a red ale you'd be disappointed. But if you were looking for a stout you'd be disappointed too.

AFAIK, they have started selling Smithwick's under its own name abroad now as well, in the US at least.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Very good point, I am however intrigued by it.

I understand it was invented for bars, where they didn't have the space for kegs, gas and lines. I suppose the novelty value prompted them to make a domestic version.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

"All guinness is brewed in Dublin for the UK market". He never mentioned anything about the watering.

You mean... giant multinational corporations lie to us? :eek: You should ask him what the ingredients of Guinness are. Industrial brewers love that one.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 07-02-2009 8:14pm

BeerNut wrote: »

You mean... giant multinational corporations lie to us? :eek: You should ask him what the ingredients of Guinness are. Industrial brewers love that one.

Thanks again for the response

I'm only a casual drinker but I'm enjoying reading these, more erm, "specific" opinions.

Now, Re: ingredients of Guinness - are you telling me it's more than just "hops,barley,water and yeast" ?
The Guinness Storehouse tour is dreadful I thought - it was free though - and the Guinness in the "Gravitiy Bar" was some of the worst I've ever tasted.

BeerNut · 08-02-2009 2:10am

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

are you telling me it's more than just "hops,barley,water and yeast"

I couldn't possibly say. I'd imagine, however, that if they were the only ingredients this would be a selling point and they'd shout it from the rooftops. As is, I assume Guinness contains preservatives, foam enhancers, flavourings and colours which have nothing to do with the above mentioned ingredients. The point is that they refuse to tell us.

I'm told that, rather than buy specific varieties of hop, Guinness buy simply based on the chemical properties of what's on offer. Which is pretty much like a wine maker buying any old grape, because it's all just grapes, isn't it? Guinness: truly, the Blue Nun of beers.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 08-02-2009 2:27am

Pardon my ignorance but is there not consumer laws that mean all ingredients have to be stated?

*stop me if you've had this conversation/debate before*

BeerNut · 08-02-2009 10:45am

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance but is there not consumer laws that mean all ingredients have to be stated?

There is. It just doesn't apply to alcoholic beverages. I've never understood why that is.

Only drinking beer that tells you what the ingredients are is a fairly good rule of thumb for drinking, I find.

Blisterman · 08-02-2009 11:11am

I dunno if that's such an accurate guide either.
Some beers list "Barley, Hops and Water" as the only ingredients.
There's no chance of them brewing it without yeast, so what other ingredients have been mysteriously left off the bottle?

Red Sleeping Beauty · 08-02-2009 11:13am

BeerNut wrote: »

There is. It just doesn't apply to alcoholic beverages. I've never understood why that is.

Hmm... I smell a rat. I'm sure it's convenient for all parties involved to keep the ingredients list unkown to the public.

I heard something about a fish byproduct being used to make Guinness

BeerNut · 08-02-2009 11:14am

Blisterman wrote: »

There's no chance of them brewing it without yeast, so what other ingredients have been mysteriously left off the bottle?

If the yeast is all filtered out, as is usually the case with factory-made beer, it doesn't count. Likewise with finings like isinglass (that fish byproduct): if it's not actually in the container at time of purchase it's not an ingredient.

oblivious · 08-02-2009 11:58am

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I heard something about a fish byproduct being used to make Guinness

Its the fish swimbladder bladder;)

Red Sleeping Beauty · 08-02-2009 11:58am

I just did a super fast search - is it similar to gelatine?

BeerNut · 08-02-2009 12:01pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

is it similar to gelatine?

Any I've seen has been white and crystalline, like coarsely ground salt. And smells like the bottom of a trawler.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 08-02-2009 12:10pm

Sorry, I meant it serves a similar purpose as gelatine ?

BeerNut · 08-02-2009 12:13pm

It seems so. It's a clarifying agent.

MediaTank · 08-02-2009 1:26pm

BeerNut wrote: »

I understand it was invented for bars, where they didn't have the space for kegs, gas and lines. I suppose the novelty value prompted them to make a domestic version

Correct, specifically hotel bars and the like which have a smaller turnover of beer. It's quite common in small hotel bars in the US. There's a place in New England I frequent where I first saw it a couple of years ago.

Closer to home Eddie Rockets on Camden St. sell it :pac:

Red Sleeping Beauty · 08-02-2009 1:32pm

MediaTank wrote: »

Closer to home Eddie Rockets on Camden St. sell it :pac:

:eek: *runs off to get next bus to Camden St :eek:

BeerNut · 08-02-2009 1:40pm

It's a bit weird when Diageo spraff on endlessly about the importance of a two-part pour by a skilled barman, and then launch products which clearly demonstrate that it doesn't make a lick of difference to the final product: stick a plastic ball of compressed nitrogen in a can or run an electric current through the beer and you get (they say) the same effect. Major doublethink there.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 08-02-2009 1:42pm

Are you saying you'll get the same quality pour from a single pour ?

You left out the Draught glass bottles which have a "rocket" wedge. They're very expensive.:)

MediaTank · 08-02-2009 1:46pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

:eek: *runs off to get next bus to Camden St :eek:

I know what you mean LOL

BeerNut · 08-02-2009 1:47pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Are you saying you'll get the same quality pour from a single pour ?

Of course. How could it possibly affect the flavour? It might look a bit different in the head region, but the beer underneath is going to be exactly the same.

The two-part pour is a marketing gimmick, dating back to the time when Guinness was actually mixed from two different barrels and serving it correctly involved real skill.

the beer revolu · 11-02-2009 1:52pm

Anyone remember the guinness 'draught' bottles with the syringe type thing that you sucked up some guinness and squirted it back through the beer in the glass.? It cane in a six pack with the syringe thing on top.

oblivious · 11-02-2009 2:06pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Anyone remember the guinness 'draught' bottles with the syringe type thing that you sucked up some guinness and squirted it back through the beer in the glass.? It cane in a six pack with the syringe thing on top.

Same idea as a sparkler and similar effect

Red Sleeping Beauty · 11-02-2009 2:35pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Anyone remember the guinness 'draught' bottles with the syringe type thing that you sucked up some guinness and squirted it back through the beer in the glass.? It cane in a six pack with the syringe thing on top.

Yep

...

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Are you saying you'll get the same quality pour from a single pour ?

You left out the Draught glass bottles which have a "rocket" wedge. They're very expensive.:)

MediaTank · 11-02-2009 2:48pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Anyone remember the guinness 'draught' bottles with the syringe type thing that you sucked up some guinness and squirted it back through the beer in the glass.? It cane in a six pack with the syringe thing on top.

Sure do, it was first launched in Galway if my memory serves me correctly. Dublin was the last place you could buy it. I also remember everyone struggling to get a head on the beer - it didn't work if the glass was not bone dry for some reason.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 17-02-2009 10:29pm

"Irish" can of Guinness Draught vs. "English" can of Guinness Draught

I bought some cans in the airport and brought em to Glasgow with me...
Bought some of these "UK" cans and have just done a blind taste test.

It wasn't totally even as one was colder than the other. The "Irish" can of guinness seemed flat. I was thinking this was because of the plane somehow? or the way I stored it. I left it in the fridge pack box at room temperature before putting in the fridge last night.

I'd have to concede though, all in all, taste-wise there's not much difference, if any. The UK cans were "BIGGER SIZE - FULLER GLASS" 530Mls.

Guinness Red
Well I tried it and you were right... it's erm, tasteless. It just tasted like a standard bland beer. I got it in one of these knaff O'Neills pubs. They also had/have Smithwicks but when I was there it was off.
They do Caffreys as well but I've never tried it and not too sure I want too... it looks like a glass of suds

BeerNut · 17-02-2009 10:43pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

It wasn't totally even as one was colder than the other. The "Irish" can of guinness seemed flat.

Could be to do with the temperature and how it affects the gas when the pressure is released. But I don't know.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

They do Caffreys as well but I've never tried it and not too sure I want too... it looks like a glass of suds

Best to stay out of the Irish theme pubs when in Britain. With all that cask ale around it's positively sinful.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 17-02-2009 11:03pm

I will agree that there's a load of rubbish attached to Guinness and Diagio's marketing ways but the temperature definately affects taste. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse

With regards Irish themed pubs...
If I'm in England I stay away from them usually with the exception of London where there's some decent pubs owned by Irish lads that just aul boys drink in, ie, not touristy as such . I'm in Glasgow which well, half of it is Irish safe and the other half you get fellas chanting "UP TO OUR NECKS IN FENIAN BLOOD". There's plenty of Guinness drinkers over here though so there's loads of places to get a good pint and there's a few bars with some Irish decor, not quite touristy but there's some of those...

There's a bar called Failté that has old irish newspaper for wallpaper and a really realy old Telafón phone box. They also have one of them green telephones shaped like Ireland behind the bar.

BeerNut · 17-02-2009 11:07pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

There's a bar called Failté that has old irish newspaper for wallpaper and a really realy old Telafón phone box. They also have one of them green telephones shaped like Ireland behind the bar.

Mmmm, lovely. Just the kind of thing you would never see in an actual Irish pub.

the beer revolu · 17-02-2009 11:56pm

BeerNut wrote: »

Mmmm, lovely. Just the kind of thing you would never see in an actual Irish pub.

All but the odd really good or mostly unchanged Irish pub is a complete fabrication of an "Irish Pub" anyway.
Full of "Irish stuff" which can be bought anywhere in the world.
I don't drink in them in Ireland and rarely abroad but sometimes they're difficult to avoid when abroad.
Be nice.

Guinness in the UK - Red,Surger,440ml cans

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