Babcock & Brown gone bust and forced to sell assets.

uncle_sam_ie

What does this mean for future of Eircom?:eek:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aKZ6HpRiioSw

ronbyrne2005

Old news. Irish state should buy network back for a song and invest in our future.

PogMoThoin

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Old news. Irish state should buy network back for a song and invest in our future.

Why? Let them have their crappy rotten network? Its not worth anything. This country needs a brand new network built from scratch, not a patched up piece of sh1t like that.

bealtine

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

What does this mean for future of Eircom?:eek:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aKZ6HpRiioSw

Technically nothing,as far as I know BCM is technically a different company
http://www.babcockbrowncapital.com/ so there are no direct consequences,
at this time.

thebman

So how much will Irish banks lose if/when eircom go under?

blast05

Old news. Irish state should buy network back for a song and invest in our future.

Not necessarily - current technologies being developed in R&D labs (next generation ADSL) will allow for downlink of up to 80 Mbps using existing copper wire infrastructure - will allow high definition IPTV to be broadcast ..... so while all the network nodes would need to be upgraded, the nationwide copper wire infrastucture connecting to the home would not so therefore no need for fibre optic networks or any other thing like that. In any case, mobile broadband is where the real future is

Sponge Bob

Bugger all. The funds came from a syndicate of International Investment Banks and has probably been packaged off into bond type securities at this stage ...largely hidden in pension funds with an AAA rating no doubt .

A senior facilities agreement (the "Senior FacilitiesAgreement") dated 22 May 2006 was entered into between BCM Ireland Holdings Limited (the "Purchaser") as the company, original borrower and original guarantor, Barclays Capital (the investment banking division of Barclays Bank PLC), Credit Suisse, London Branch, Deutsche Bank AG, London Branch, Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein Ltd and J.P. Morgan plc as mandated lead arrangers, Barclays Bank PLC, Credit Suisse, London Branch, Deutsche Bank AG, London Branch, Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein Ltd and JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A. as original lenders, J.P. Morgan Europe Ltd. as agent, J.P. Morgan Europe Ltd. as security trustee and Barclays Bank PLC, Credit Suisse International, Deutsche Bank AG, London Branch, Dresdner Bank AG London Branch and J.P. Morgan Europe Ltd. as original issuing banks pursuant to which the original lenders agreed to lend funds to the Purchaser (the " Senior Credit Facilities").

leoc

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Old news. Irish state should buy network back for a song and invest in our future.

If the state can't regulate Eircom for toffee, why assume that it would make any less of a hames of running the company directly? It's not as if Eircom was a shining marvel the last time it was a semi-State company.

SkepticOne

leoc wrote: »

If the state can't regulate Eircom for toffee, why assume that it would make any less of a hames of running the company directly? It's not as if Eircom was a shining marvel the last time it was a semi-State company.

I agree with this. The other danger is that, with the State's desperate requirement for revenue, measures would be taken against competing companies and prices would be driven up. Most of the time that the company was in state hands it was illegal to compete with it and prices were much higher than today and services much more limited.

crawler

BCM actually own eircom along with the ESOT and some Senior Babcock employees (would not like to be them) - BCM pays a management fee to BNB. BCM have publically stated they wish to "buy out" this fee therefore there will be no tie between BCM and BNB anymore.

BCM will probably then sell eircom at some stage.

(BCM=babcock capital management / BNB= Babcock and Brown)

bealtine

crawler wrote: »

BCM will probably then sell eircom at some stage.

As far as I know BCM have (or will have) appointed UBS to do just that.
That's of course if the financial crunchie doesn't spoil the plans...

So the rumour machine says anyway.

crawler

bealtine wrote: »

As far as I know BCM have (or will have) appointed UBS to do just that.
That's of course if the financial crunchie doesn't spoil the plans...

So the rumour machine says anyway.

Correct - again BCM stated this themselves in public (got to love listed stock Companies)

They have to break the BNB tie first then explore options.

They are also going to seriously write down the value of both eircom and Golden Pages (the 2 bits that make up BCM).

I cant see them getting more than the value of the debt to be honest, if even but then you never know.....

Sponge Bob

I highlighted some bits in Red , €2.4bn of Goodwill feels good.

pwd

I'm pretty sure they were intending to sell eircom in a couple of years, and had intended to when they bought it.

smellslikeshoes

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Why? Let them have their crappy rotten network? Its not worth anything. This country needs a brand new network built from scratch, not a patched up piece of sh1t like that.

Learn to walk before you can run. The necessary investment to roll out a national network with access to the end user separate to Eircom is just something that realistically cannot be done by anyone in the current economic climate. For want of a better word we need a stable Eircom with deep pockets to invest in their network over the long term with FTTH the ultimate goal.

The state is strapped for cash and its doubtful that they would want to be paying large sums of money on broadband when they are having trouble finding the money for projects like the NDP. In my eyes there is no way in the foreseeable future the State will pay out big money for Fibre roll out or for that matter buying Eircom back.

The realistic best possible scenario is a cash strapped BCM flogging Eircom for cheap to someone who actually knows how to run a modern telecommunications company. We need someone with Deep pockets and an ambition to take the bull by the horns and invest in the network.

jmcc

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Learn to walk before you can run. The necessary investment to roll out a national fibre network separate to Eircom is just something that realistically cannot be done by anyone in the current economic climate.

So what is that MAN thing?

Regards...jmcc

PogMoThoin

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Learn to walk before you can run. The necessary investment to roll out a national fibre network separate to Eircom is just something that realistically cannot be done by anyone in the current economic climate. For want of a better word we need a stable Eircom with deep pockets to invest in their network over the long term with FTTH the ultimate goal.

No, lets waste money on a National Broadband Scheme and bring diall up to the people

thebman

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

The state is strapped for cash and its doubtful that they would want to be paying large sums of money on broadband when they are having trouble finding the money for projects like the NDP. In my eyes there is no way in the foreseeable future the State will pay out big money for Fibre roll out or for that matter buying Eircom back.

See I think Broadband is in a worse situation than the roads TBH. At least there are roads everywhere at the moment. We have essentially no broadband infrastructure in many places and were we have it, it is about 10 times slower than the rest of the modern worlds broadband infrastructure yet we are pushing for knowledge jobs to come here.

Some places have no access to broadband including businesses and dial up isn't good enough to even browse most websites these days and neither is Mobile BB in these areas as there is too much contention.

smellslikeshoes

jmcc wrote: »

So what is that MAN thing?

Regards...jmcc

Sorry should have made it clearer, I was referring to infrastructure with availability to the end user and not just the back bone. You will forgive me as it was early :P

PogMoThoin wrote: »

No, lets waste money on a National Broadband Scheme and bring diall up to the people

Lets stick to the Eircom Issue, we have all discussed the farce that is the NBS plenty at this stage. Regardless of the money was spent/wasted on the NBS the money for more broadband investment is not there now.

thebman wrote: »

See I think Broadband is in a worse situation than the roads TBH. At least there are roads everywhere at the moment. We have essentially no broadband infrastructure in many places and were we have it, it is about 10 times slower than the rest of the modern worlds broadband infrastructure yet we are pushing for knowledge jobs to come here.

Some places have no access to broadband including businesses and dial up isn't good enough to even browse most websites these days and neither is Mobile BB in these areas as there is too much contention.

I completely agree with you for what its worth but that still doesn't change the fact that roads will get priority. Most ministers hardly know what t'internet is nevermind how important it is.

watty

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Lets stick to the Eircom Issue, we have all discussed the farce that is the NBS plenty at this stage. Regardless of the money was spent/wasted on the NBS the money for more broadband investment is not there now.

A privately owned eircom ought to be a PART of an NBS plan. We can't do universal FTTH, but we could do a much better real NBS, combining the 79 Million EU/Gov money and eircom, e-Net mans, heanet, ESBT fibre, ESB infrastructure, threefold, Digiweb, UPC (and their 180k MMDS customers + sites) and most importantly most of the small regional and local WISPs. Only the NBS network management should be limited to a National Company, with a proven track record and resources to do it. eircom would be short listed for that Tender.

There is still time to chuck out the NBS and get a proper one cut to the same money.

bealtine

watty wrote: »

combining the 79 Million EU/Gov money and eircom, e-Net mans, heanet, ESBT fibre, ESB infrastructure, threefold, Digiweb, UPC (and their 180k MMDS customers + sites) and most importantly most of the small regional and local WISPs.

Great idea...

leoc

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

thebman wrote: »

See I think Broadband is in a worse situation than the roads TBH. At least there are roads everywhere at the moment.

I completely agree with you for what its worth but that still doesn't change the fact that roads will get priority. Most ministers hardly know what t'internet is nevermind how important it is.

Part of the problem is that there aren't many communications-engineering multimillionaires at the Galway Races.

But regardless, I think that this is a case that IOffl ought to be making: compare the costs and benefits of a few possible broadband programs with some of the road schemes and other big concrete-pouring exercises that are (or were!) in the NDP.

On the third hand, as already agreed, extra public money is a very poor substitute for competent and (when necessary) confrontational regulation.

PogMoThoin

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Most ministers hardly know what t'internet is nevermind how important it is.

Well then we've got ourselves to blame, we're electing the wrong people

smellslikeshoes

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Well then we've got ourselves to blame, we're electing the wrong people

Seriously where are you going with this? If you want to have a whinge about the government for the sake of it do it in AH, theres several threads of that nature there everyday so it would fit right in, lets keep it constructive here.

RedLedbetter

Unfortunately, due to the current banking situation, globally, it's very difficult for parties interested in purchasing BCMs stake in Eircom, to attain the necessary capital. So for the time being, it would be pretty much impossible for them to find a buyer, especially for the entire Eircom group - what's more likely is that a buyer comes in and tries to purchase the likes of Meteor on it's own, but that's not going to suit BCM as their overall goal is to make a return on the entire investment.

Just how interested do you think BCM are in Irelands telecoms/broadband infrastrucure???

trekkypj

Hmm I'll buy it for €1

In all seriousness, how much do you think it would cost to buy Eircom given the level of debt and all....

croo

Why bother taking on their 4billion in debt? 4b which was mainly taken on to pay huge dividends to its shareholders anyway!
Better to just let it sink and buy the assets (at knock down prices - because they haven't been well maintained) when their creditors attempt to recoup something of that 4b.

watty

Leverage buyouts..

You borrow to buy the shares then you offload your debt onto the company?

Nearly 5 Billion. It's 4.6 to 4.7. Indeed very little of it (especially if you add the value of selling Eircell and don't include cost of buying Meteor) is due to either investment or any other operational cost.

A failure of the Financial Regulator allowing a very profitable company to be saddled with so much debt it's now impossible to invest.

That Debt would buy 2 to 5 fibre to the home networks for Ireland.

Australia's second largest investment bank, Babcock & Brown, has gone into administration after it was unable to deal with its massive debt levels.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7941179.stm

Will Babcock and Brown have to sell their stake in the Eircom holding company to raise cash?

Who has the cash to buy Eircom / take on the debt given the credit crunch.

watty

The creditors may get court orders to sieze assets and dispose of them as they wish if no agreement with administrators.

croo

I'm sure I read somewhere that B&B didn't hold the assets directly but rather a B&B International did, so we are not quiet at the end game yet. B&B holds a majority stake in B&B International so I guess it is just a matter of time. Ah yes here is what I read http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0313/breaking22.htm

Hopefully nobody will buy Eircom and we can just get those assets that might have some value - namely the network. What we don't want ,is to be buying property and assuming debt. With a bit of luck Zanu FF will not have enough money to buy it (for us) even if they wanted.