Pagan Ritual

studiorat

Ok, serious question...

Ritual sexual rites, do they exist in the modern Pagan's worship?

Considering the evidence for ritual sex from historical accounts of various sects, ranging from bestiality to crossdressing and much in between.

For example some rites involved cross-dressing and same gender sex in an attempt to transcend sexual boundries and become closer to the relevant deity.

Do modern practicioners still indulge in rituals such as these or has Christanity's influence done away with these practices for the majority?

Nevyn

studiorat wrote: »

Ok, serious question...

Ritual sexual rites, do they exist in the modern Pagan's worship?

Ritual sexual rites, sex magic or fertility rites ?

I would say it depends on the pagan and their practices as pagan is an
umbrella term for many paths, ways and traditions.

Would you consider tantra to be a pagan path ?

studiorat wrote: »

Considering the evidence for ritual sex from historical accounts of various sects, ranging from bestiality to crossdressing and much in between.

What evidence ? Could you link of cite please ?

studiorat wrote: »

For example some rites involved cross-dressing and same gender sex in an attempt to transcend sexual boundries and become closer to the relevant deity.

Now that is intresting, which deity ?

studiorat wrote: »

Do modern practicioners still indulge in rituals such as these or has Christanity's influence done away with these practices for the majority?

hmmm there is no 'majority' in paganism, there is no listing of who is pagan
and what they do. For the most part people's personal practices tend to be private and due to Christianity influence in this country public rites and rituals
of any sort were for a very long time not the done thing.

There are some public rites and rituals held around the country but none
that I am aware of which involve cross dressing.

studiorat

Thaedydal wrote: »

Ritual sexual rites, sex magic or fertility rites ?

I dunno you tell me, personally I don't know the difference.

Thaedydal wrote: »

I would say it depends on the pagan and their practices as pagan is an
umbrella term for many paths, ways and traditions.

I see, so would there be a particular influence Celtic? Greek? Roman?

Thaedydal wrote: »

Would you consider tantra to be a pagan path ?

Yoga is not a pagan ritual as far as I know.

Thaedydal wrote: »

What evidence ? Could you link of cite please ?

This kind of thing, obviously not quite so drastic...

Later, Cybele's most ecstatic followers were males who ritually castrated themselves, after which they were given women's clothing and assumed "female" identities, who were referred to by one third-century commentator, Callimachus, in the feminine as Gallai, but to whom other contemporary commentators in ancient Greece and Rome referred to as Gallos or Galli.

I could go on but you get the picture...

Thaedydal wrote: »

Now that is intresting, which deity ?

Not a lot of people would find it so interesting, I'm glad you do. I was specifically thinking about the Magna Mater in Rome or Potnia Theron in ancient Greece. There's also Saturn, Ops, Sol Invicta, Janus....

Thaedydal wrote: »

hmmm there is no 'majority' in paganism, there is no listing of who is pagan
and what they do. For the most part people's personal practices tend to be private and due to Christianity influence in this country public rites and rituals
of any sort were for a very long time not the done thing.

Thaedydal wrote: »

There are some public rites and rituals held around the country but none
that I am aware of which involve cross dressing.

By majority I suppose I meant is there a majority influence, ie is it Celtic, Roman, Nordic?
I was more thinking about Christanity's influence on the actual Pagan doctrine as is were, by majority I meant majority of belief. Has, in your opinion, Christanity, since it has hijacked so many pagan festivals had an influence on Pagan theology? Syncretism if you will. That's to say, have the actual beliefs and /or rituals been influenced.

Talliesin

studiorat wrote: »

Ritual sexual rites, do they exist in the modern Pagan's worship?

The short answer is "yes". The problem with the short answer is that inferences and nuances may not match very well with the actuality.

For one thing, a "ritual sexual rite" need not contain actual sex. Stylised sexual symbolism may be used, for example (and often is).

For another, people have sex all the time. Use of sexual rites has nuances of promiscuity or being forced into sexual activities one may not be happy with, but this need not be the case. For one thing, it's harder to make use of sexual energy if you aren't comfortable with the act.

studiorat wrote: »

By majority I suppose I meant is there a majority influence, ie is it Celtic, Roman, Nordic?

"Majority influence" implies that there is some sort of common body of belief and/or practice shared by many that is influenced by others.

The majority influence on Druids would normally be Celtic. The majority influence of Roman reconstructionists would be Roman. The majority influence on Ásatrúers and other Heathens would be Nordic.

studiorat wrote: »

by majority I meant majority of belief.

Majority is a far distance from consensus though. I'd say the majority of people of my tradition would be quite strongly different from the majority of modern Pagans generally, for example. With "Pagan" being such a large umbrella term it's not all that useful to think about "majority" in that way, more useful to look at a few different traditions and religions.

There's also not always that much value in looking at belief. Remember that belief is not the defining feature of most religions. I'd say belief is useful to look at when it comes to eclectic witchcraft, of some usefulness in looking at Heathenism, and of very little value when looking at Wicca.

studiorat wrote: »

Has, in your opinion, Christanity, since it has hijacked so many pagan festivals had an influence on Pagan theology?

I wouldn't say it was for that reason, but Christianity has been a predominant influence upon thinking in the Western world, including in its deliberate rejection, for many hundreds of years.

I belief in the Big Bang theory of the creation of the universe. Same theory most people of most religions belief these days. It is a theory put forward by a Catholic Priest. We can't move away from Christian philosophy completely because it doesn't completely stop at strictly "religious" matters, and nor does whatever religion one practices.

Christianity is also the vector by which some non-Christian ideas were spread. What would we know of Plato, if he had no influence upon Christian philosophers, for example?

Lou.m

There is more to tantra than yoga. It is just that a lot of people practise tantra soley in that way.

Fertility rites maybe be purely to encourage crops abundance or conception or to celebrate reproduction and actual fertility in some way the worship or female and male polarities and any concept of progeny and the ability of conception itself regardless of what type ie crops creativity etc. These may not involve sex at all we can be talking of the fertility of mother nature or acknowledging the fertility of a woman and celebrating that. A celebration of virility.


Sex rites are rituals concerned with actual sexuality itself they may be about sexuality as a concept or to celebrate ones own sexuality. They can simply be symbolized rather than acted out. As regards actual sex well there are many pagan couples out there and i am sure they might do something like this together. Adults are free to celebrate this in any way that does not hurt anyone else or themselves, however sex rites are sacred in essence they raise sexuality to something higher and are a acknowledgement of its beauty and power anything that would degrade a human being or hurt anything is in complete oposition to this.

Sex magick is different again sex magick is the use of the power generated during sex for a particular goal, sexual rituals may simply be a celebration of love or sexuality or a deity and may not involve actual physical sex. Sex magick involves the generation of sexual energy from something which may simply be a visualization rather than a sex act or may be a full sex act depending on the goal and the pagans.

I do not think that Christianity has much influence at all on paganism to be honest especially in rituals completely different trains of belief. I mean it could be said Christianity influenced western culture but it could be said western culture influenced Christianity. It could be said that paganism influenced Christianity, the triple god concept etc you could say it is influenced by a lot of Roman prechristian deities.



Are you asking if Christianity influenced pagan sex rites???? IF so i think the answer would be a definite no. I don think you would see much influence on pagan deities to be honest.


Pagans are often sensitive about this subject it is very personal and not something to be taken lightly.

I think what you seem to really want to know is do pagans to day actually have sex during ritual ??? Right??? Answer : Yes. But it has to be a personal choice and the right choice! And legal!!!

What types of sex or ritual depends on the people involved and their choice and the tradition.

studiorat

I wanted to know if there were till ex rites and if christanity's influence had affected people willingness to partake.

I'm interested though in the statement that belief was not a defining feature of most religions. Surely that would be a primary factor or is it just theatre?