Pathetic Dermot Ahern copying the Brits by banning swords

TetsuoHashimoto

Wow the Biffo cult looks at some English law imposed last yr 2008 and decides 'great', let's come up with the marvelous copycat idea of banning swords in the Irish Republic and giving a five year jail term to anyone with a sword. Let's copy the English laws (because those English dudes have been doing so well at reducing UK crime *sarcasm off*) and let's just cut and paste all British legislation and stick a few Goidelic Tá Bhís in front of the thing and call it Oi-rish. Good old Biffo the great leader of Ireland (well at least he makes an effort from time to time at speaking his nations own language even if his bad grammar and rubber lips murder the beauty of Ireland's language).

Swords are not the problem! When was the last time you saw the SevenSamurais storming Dublin Castle? or BraveHeart walking down the street attacking people with swords!? NEVER!

The Garda police have enough to do without these stupid new laws. They don't need any of this BS mountains of bureaucracy and archaic legislation that has been turning England into a 1984 police state where parents get jail for smacking their kids or somebody gets a 3000 Euro fine and jail just for owing an antique sword. What we need to do is tackle the criminality, the gun runners, the junk pushers. The Garda Síochána need more resources and they need larger numbers in their forces and people in this country need the economy up and running again and not George Orwell style legislation

PS
They can F-off if they think I'm giving up those swords I got in the basement to be melted down

PPS
I'm not sure if I've posted this thread in the correct part of the forum
(Mods please move/delete if inappropriate )

I agree with you re the swords. Like most things law abiding citizens who collect the swords will suffer because of a few idiots. It's like guns. We can ban them but the people who use them to kill people will still get their hands on one.

The legislation will hopefully make people think twice about carrying a knife. This five year sentence will mean people can be detained if necessary. Before it was just back to the station, charged and released.

What do members with more service than myself think of this?
(or even just service considering i'm only attested two months:))

metman

You can still legally possess swords in the UK, be they katana style, broadsword or ornamental (Klingon style). You can carry a sword to and from martial arts training (I've stopped a guy on his way to his club in possession of a Katana) without issue either.

It does, however, become an issue when, as happens here more frequently than you might think, some nut goes on the rampage or gang members produce a sword for effect.

Without lawful excuse, possession in a public place makes it an offensive weapon. I don't see anything wrong with this, as it is exactly that.

Is the proposed legislation in Ireland banning possession outright?

metman

happyhappy wrote: »

the only time i see swords being collected in houses are during searches in criminals houses.

Ditto (albeit in suspect's houses )....but then how often are you conducting a search in a non-suspect address?

As someone who has an interest in, and practices, martial arts I don't think they should banned outright.... tighter restrictions on sale perhaps?

Turner

TetsuoHashimoto wrote: »

When was the last time you saw the SevenSamurais storming Dublin Castle? or BraveHeart walking down the street attacking people with swords!? NEVER!

You are obviously not a garda and sleep soundly everynight when these type of incidents happen.

In my service in An Garda Siochana I have been confronted by sword yielding maniacs 5 times. It is a very frightening experience being met with somebody with a 3 or 4 foot sword.

On one occasion the sword yielding maniac was tased and on another it took armed detectives to get him to put the sword down. The other three times we as unarmed gardai had to take the people down. They dont teach you how to do that in Templemore.

I have only every had one person brandish a knife and try and stab me. All of the above people only got 12 months in prison after being convicted in the district court.

So i presume it stems from crime statistics that this new law is being considered.

donvito99

Chief--- wrote: »

You are obviously not a garda and sleep soundly everynight when these type of incidents happen.

In my service in An Garda Siochana I have been confronted by sword yielding maniacs 5 times. It is a very frightening experience being met with somebody with a 3 or 4 foot sword.

On one occasion the sword yielding maniac was tased and on another it took armed detectives to get him to put the sword down. The other three times we as unarmed gardai had to take the people down. They dont teach you how to do that in Templemore.

I have only every had one person brandish a knife and try and stab me. All of the above people only got 12 months in prison after being convicted in the district court.

So i presume it stems from crime statistics that this new law is being considered.

Well said Chief.

Blazer

happyhappy wrote: »

i based saying i only see them in suspects houses, as i have never seen them in any of my relations, friends, or random houses i'd be in with injured parties or witnesses etc.

i agree with them for use in martical arts etc. you make a good point there but what point do they serve stuck to the wall of a house or in a box in the basement - none! if they are to be ever used it is in crime/violence etc

Not necessarily..I was at the hynotist the other day (off the smokes )
Remember him telling me that he used to do martial arts in his younger days and noticed that he had the 3 Katanas in a stand in his office.
I've no problem with this..he's hardly likely to flip out.
Most likely they bring back good memories when he looks at them etc so I would say that there's a point having them stuck to a wall.
Of course I would have no problems if the edge's had to be blunted by law for such a use as to render them harmless.

As for the ban..5 years for someone carrrying a knife..good (with no excuse for it)
I know if I was confronted by a sword/knife wielding maniac I'd be pissed he'd only gotten 12 months.
Now just to increase the sentences for murder/manslaughter and pretty much everything that poses a danger to someone's life.

Paulzx

Issue Gardai with hoses and they'll be grand:)

Shocked family tell of samurai sword attack as car burned




By Louise Hogan and Elaine Keogh

Saturday December 15 2007

A SHOCKED family yesterday described how firemen fighting a blazing car had to use their water hose to fight off a man who attacked the officers with a samurai sword.

The firefighters were tackling the burning car outside a house in Marian Park, Dundalk, when a man wielding a sword ran towards them. They were forced to turn the water hose on him, knocking him to the ground.

"He managed to get back up and he was hosed down again," chief fire officer Eamon Woulfe said.

The McKeown family, who were trapped inside the house by the blazing car, say they could have lost their lives if it had not been for their neighbours, who helped them past the "inferno". And they say they are now in fear of a man, who was arrested a short time later by gardai, being released from custody.

The burning car had trapped Carole McKeown inside the house with her husband Ken and their children Josh (6) and Cal (4). The family said this was the third time their car has been vandalised since they moved into the rented house in Marian Park last May.

"It is a buzz to them to stand and watch it and then annoy the firemen when they come," she said. "The house could have caught fire and we would have been trapped," Ms McKeown said. "The windows of the house were cracking with the heat."

Mr McKeown said it was the quick actions of their neighbours which saved them from a possibly worse fate.

Alive

"The fire brigade told us that if the fire had broken the windows in the front of the house we wouldn't have got out alive because it would have spread into the living room," he said.

Their car was parked just a few feet from their home, just under the children's bedroom windows. "There were people banging on the door and telling us to get out in case the house went on fire," Carole McKeown said.

Mr McKeown said the car was like an "inferno" when he opened the front door, and he could hear his wife and two children screaming in the back bedroom. "Someone started hammering and kicking the front door and two large men jumped in the door and we got the children out first," he said.

Neighbours helped the family place a blanket over Josh, Cal and Ms McKeown to bring them to safety.

The McKeown family said it was around this time that a man was seen attempting to break the windows of a car in a neighbouring house. A couple of men held him back and he fled only to return with the sword.

"He just went on a rampage. One man had to use a bar to get the sword off him. It looked pretty new with a long blade, a good 12 inches long and maybe more than that and I was a fair distance away at this stage," added Mr McKeown. It was at this stage that the fire fighters came under attack and the water hose was turned on the man.

Gardai confirmed a 24-year-old man had been arrested at the scene for criminal damage.

-

Eru

Banning Swords? But I live in Swords!

Traumadoc

Should they ban slashhooks also?

Paulzx

Traumadoc wrote: »

Should they ban slashhooks also?

That would be racist. Your removing items related to peoples culture;)

fishdog

why do people need these swords to collect?? its not like we have a heritage with swords involved like japan for example. they serve no purpose other than to cause injury if in the wrong hands. the only time i see swords being collected in houses are during searches in criminals houses. why would you want to keep swords in the basement of youer house????

I have Scottish ancestors that owned swords a long time ago. They are not ornamental, or imitation they are the real thing. These swords have been passed down from farther to so for several generations now. Since I was a small child I remember them securely fixed to the living room wall in my father’s house. Some day they will be passed on to me and they will be on my sitting room wall!

I would intend to have them displayed on a wall, nothing else, they are old, delicate and valuable. I cannot see the harm in this. I agree that if they were being used to attack, frighten or intimidate then the offender deserves whatever the law throws at them.

In my service in An Garda Siochana I have been confronted by sword yielding maniacs 5 times. It is a very frightening experience being met with somebody with a 3 or 4 foot sword.

In this context the a person doing this should be locked up.

foxtrot-oscar

Is this all knive/swords or just samuri type ones you cant have??

I've an antique french artillary sword, left to me by my grand father, will i have to hand it in??

Esel

As swords are already illegal to carry in public (I presume, as they fit the definition of a knife), does anyone know whether the proposed legislation will apply to having these on private property? I don't have any, btw!

Scramble

My understanding of the legislation in the UK is as follows:-

Initially all swords with a curved blade of more than 50cm were banned from sale, importation, hire, loan etc.

The exceptions were-

1. Swords made in Japan before 1954
2. Swords made in Japan any other time as long as they were made by traditional hand-methods.
3. Swords being purchased by legitimate martial artists.

Then, two ammendments ( http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/draft/ukdsi_9780110810324_en_1 , http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/draft/ukdsi_9780110817774_en_1 ) were made a few months later which relaxed the ban slightly:-

Swords relating to religious purposes were excused (presumably principally relating to the sikh community). Also, they removed the specification of 'Japan', enabling good quality swords made in China by hand to be brought in.

I'm open to correction on the above, but that's my understanding of it.

If this legislation comes in according to the same wording as in the UK, basically it will still be possible for someone to import / sell / manafacture a sword in Ireland. Just not a factory-made sword with a curved blade of more than 50cm.

So perhaps in practical terms what that means is that it is quite a specific ban on cheap samurai swords. What are known as 'wallhangers', swords made out of stainless steel which are available cheaply on the internet and in some martial arts shops. Genuine handmade swords costing several hundred or even thousand won't be covered, nor will european-style swords.

I also think that existing swords that would fall under the remit of the ban will still be legal to hold in your home. But you won't be able to sell or lend them (and obviously, as at present, you won't be able to take them into a public place without a suitable defence i.e you are going to your legitimate martial arts class or re-enactor's fair or whatever).

But like I said, I'm open to correction ... or if anyone has a link to the proposed wording?

Night Flight

Won't this infringe the cultural heritage of a certain ethnic minority?

trentf

I don't think its a ban of swords just a ban of swords being used in public places and penalities for this.

They obviously had to do it for a reason as some of the comments indicate here that people have been attacked by sword wielding maniacs and that there doesn't seem to be any penalties for this.

deadwood

Traumadoc wrote: »

Should they ban slashhooks also?

Just before weddings and funerals.

Arathorn

TetsuoHashimoto wrote: »

When was the last time you saw the SevenSamurais storming Dublin Castle? or BraveHeart walking down the street attacking people with swords!? NEVER!

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/gardai-hold-two-men-in-connection-with-limerick-sword-attack-690256.html