Ban on Samurai Swords

westcoastshuri

I am fairly new to boards so if this topic has been done to death then please delete and apologies


If not I am curious to hear peoples opinions

Regards,

Darren
Sale of samurai swords to be prohibited

LUKE CASSIDY

Sales of samurai swords are to be banned and the maximum prison term for possessing a knife in a public place increased from one to five years under new measures to be included in the forthcoming Criminal Justice Bill.
Under the Bill, gardaí will also see their powers of search without a warrant increase should they have reasonable grounds to suspect a person is carrying any article for unlawful purposes.
Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern announced the measures today at the launch of a knife crime awareness campaign as part of the Garda Policing Plan for 2009.
Mr Ahern said he made the amendments following recommendations from the Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy.
“Though legislation on the use of knives and similar weapons is already very strong and heavy penalties are already in place, we are moving to further strengthen the law in this area,” Mr Ahern said.
“In that context, we sought and received proposals from the Garda Commissioner to assist his force in tackling knife-crime.”
The number of murders involving knives fell from 37 to 15 last year, however, the Commissioner said there is evidence of increased knife carrying especially in the context of assault.
“We have been fortunate not to experience sustained high levels of knife deaths such as those witnessed in other countries, there has nonetheless been a series of high profile incidents which give rise to concern," he said.
“We want to intervene early with young people and bring home to them the dangers of deciding to carry a knife, not least of which is the risk that it will be used on themselves. Carrying a knife greatly increases your chances of being seriously injured or killed in a fight.”
The How Big Do You Feel? campaign is aimed primarily at young people and will include roadshows and schools meetings as well as a presence on social networking websites like Bebo and Facebook encouraging young people to engage with gardaí.
The Criminal Justice Bill is expected to be brought before the Dáil in the current session.

fitz0

I don't see this as a bad thing, only good can come from getting knives out of dangerous idiots hands. I don't see it as a bad thing so long as the legislation provides for sale to registered martial arts clubs. As long as its monitered right I dont see this being a problem at all.

yomchi

Knives are not the problem lads. It's the intention of the user. A knife is not dangerous unless it's in the hands of someone willing to use it.
If someone is intent on cutting you open they don't need a knife to do it;

screwdriver
scissors
Biro
razor blade
shard of glass
broken bottle
lump of tin

etc etc etc... unless the government get around the concept of intent and the yob culture that exists today people will still get stabbed with anything that is sharp enough to do it.

Prime example. A school in the USA implemented student searches as pupils arrived into school as they had had a number of stabbings with knives. Did that stop the violence? Nope. Sure, there were very little actual knives getting through, but that same day a student was stabbed..with a pencil.

Intent is the killer, not the weapon. They can ban knives all day long IMO.

Bujinkan

Jon wrote: »

Knives are not the problem lads. It's the intention of the user. A knife is not dangerous unless it's in the hands of someone willing to use it.
If someone is intent on cutting you open they don't need a knife to do it;

screwdriver
scissors
Biro
razor blade
shard of glass
broken bottle
lump of tin

etc etc etc... unless the government get around the concept of intent and the ypb culture that exists today people will still get stabbed with anything that is sharp enough to do it.

Prime example. A school in the USA implemented student searches as pupils arrived into school as they had had a number of stabbings with knives. Did that stop the violence? Nope. Sure, there were very little actual knives getting through, but that same day a student was stabbed..with a pencil.

Intent is the killer, not the weapon. They can ban knives all day long IMO.

Very good post Jon. I mean do people think that even by [FONT=&quot]implementing a new law, that it is really going to stop people carrying knives if they really want to use them? The law is good....just wont matter to those intent on harming others. Guns are illegal, dosen't stop people using them[/FONT]!

Niall Keane

I remember living near Dolphin's Barn, back in the early nineties shortly after it became an offence to carry a knife, I don't know if people remember but previously, you could carry a blade of less than 6".
Anyway, I remember a lad running by Dolphin House pub one evening and throwing a what looked like greater than 6" blood stained Kitchen knife away, towards the buildings, before he was picked up by the gardi.
A few years before that, people were using flick and lock blades, they paid top dollar for them, i.e. they were a prized possession, in razor terms, a €20 turbo or whatever rather than a bic disposable. I felt people didn't want to use them, and as all people could carry, a certain respect existed between strangers. When knives were used, the police went straight down to the army surplus stores, ask who recently bought knives, and inevitably the culprit was discovered. Now, of course this left Gardi i.e. the enforcers of power in the State in a more dangerous position, as any citizen could be armed. This I believe is the real point.
Knife attacks don’t seem to have fallen, but they don’t seem too prevalent either. However I personally would rather take an attack from a relatively blunt lock blade than a "Laser" sharpened serrated 10" kitchen chef knife, designed to allow anyone even the weak and elderly to effortlessly glide through any meat?
Stabbing wise I suppose there wouldn't be much of a difference, i.e. I would say it would be more a case of where you were stabbed, however laceration wise, where as tough clothing could save you from a slashing injury from typical pocket knives etc. I don't believe that you stand much chance with super sharp and longer kitchen knives.
As a previous poster says, someone with intent will carry out what they want, also someone intent on carrying out violent crime will be more concerned with intimidating his victims, and getting away, not on the length of his sentence, if he is caught. Hence present gun culture.
So I think if you look at who gains and who loses, well the criminal still carries, but the law abiding public doesn't. So these laws are designed to protect the forces of the state from the public, and not the criminal elements within them.

scuttery1

I'm not sure what this will actually mean in real terms. Banning / prohibition has never stopped stuff happening. It used to be an offense punishable by burning to be of a certain religious persuasion. A longer jail sentence? Sounds good but will it be deterent and will it be applied by the courts? IMHO these are cosmetic actions that don't tackle the under lying social issues that have led to the development of this, to quote Jon "yob culture". As to the banning of the "samurai sword" I feel it's being offered up as a sacrifice to the perceived threat it poses to public safety. It is caught up in Perceived vs Actual threat scenario. The katana is perceived to be more dangerous than a steak knife but in actuality it's the knife that is more dangerous ( ease of concealment,availability, training needed etc) A remember reading a report about food related threats and people ranked bird flu as much more of a threat than obesity even knowing that obesity was responsible for many many more deaths.
Also the katana is a single purpose tool, it's a weapon regardless of the intention of the user it is designed to do a single job you wouldn't hammer nails with it where as most of the other nasty things you might encounter on the street are multi purpose so seem less lethal. So we'll all sleep better at night knowing that there ain't no katanas out there

Pride Fighter

I think it is a good thing to ban samurai swords. They should only be in the hands of collectors or martial artists.

I also agree with Niall Keane's post. I jokingly said to my brother in a hardware shop that one could arm a gang for a tenner in here. The shop was selling 7 kitchen knives, about a 5 inch long blade and very sharp for 4.99. As Jon said earlier intent is the main thing. If someone wants to stab you, they inevitably will with something.

Odysseus

Going by my professional experience of working within a drug treatment setting I don't think this will make much difference. There are strict laws there already but this doesn't stop a lot of the clients I work with from carrying and using weapons.

We generally have a couple of weapon related incidents each year, generally in the carpark. Just from my experience with a certain cohort of people inclined to carry weapons you don't see expensive good quality knifes; what you see are cheap and nasty weapons, I have often been talking to clients in the carpark and I have noticed a box-cutter or carpet knife in a back pocket. I have had to tell quite a few that they can't be producing them in the waiting room.

Generally cheap but highly effective kitchen knifes with about a 3 to 4 inch blade. These are unbannable, but they are cheap and easy to accquire therefore easy to replace if they need to be dumped. We seen everything from a wheel brace to a baton that had a blade on the end looked like a small spear!

Its all about intent as Jon noted I have had clients take out weapons during sessions and not being too concerned as it was clear there was no intent to harm me.

My own opinion would be that people like myself who have reasonable cause to occassionally be in possession of a knife will be affected. I'm have an interest in knife defense which has led to me devloping a collection of knifes, like alot of people. I have various weapons on the wall in my gym room that I may train with like a tonfa, I also have a dagger from Morocco and a localy made hunting knife from Kenya. There is no reason why these will ever leave my home.

However, as I ride a motorbike there is always a leatherman in my bike jacket, when I travel on adventure runs a knife is a required item in most cases. When I go camping I bring a leatherman and larger knife I use for firewood etc. The point I'm trying to make is that me carrying around a leatherman in my bike jacket shouldn't be a legal issue and I'm concerned that these new laws may effect that. Also as martial artists alot of people collect various weapons but have not intent on using them, stopping us from owning them will not stop the people that I have been talking about, they will just continue carrying knifes.

HammerHeadGym

Ah prohibition. Well let's just hope the ban on blades is as successful at reducing crime as the ban on guns, drugs and anti social behavior has been in the past.

Scramble

Without seeing the legislation, what I would say is that in relation to banning swords then if it's in the same format as was brought in in the UK then it's not an outright 'ban' in the sense people may expect.

In the UK the situation, as I understand it, is that curved blades longer than 50cm are banned from import, manafacture, sale, hire etc.

The exceptions to this are blades manafactured before 1954, blades manafactured by traditional hand-methods, those utilised for religious reasons, legitimate martial arts or historical re-enactment.

What that means is that the ban has meant cheap curved stainless steel swords made in factories in pakistan cannot be sold in shops or bought on the internet from abroad.

If you want to buy a hand-forged sword with a curved blade, which can cost from say one hundred and fifty pounds up to thousands upon thousands, then it is still possible.

Likewise it remains possible in the UK to import whatever type of straight-bladed European sword you might want.

As far as I understand people with swords which would now fall under the ban may still legally possess them in their own home, they just may no longer sell or lend them out, and as always may not take them into a public place without an appropriate defense (religious reasons, martial arts, historical re-enactment etc.).

In conclusion, in the UK what this means is that the ban has not been as draconian as people originally thought it would be. Even aside from members of martial arts or re-enactment clubs, it remains possible for pretty much anyone to buy a 'samurai sword' if they are prepared to spend a little bit of money. What the ban has done effectively is get rid of the cheap stainless steel swords which were for sale ridiculously cheaply on the internet and in martial arts shops, and which were dangerous to even swing in some cases.

I agree overall that these types of restrictions are more about populist politics rather than addressing a genuine problem.

Roper

I for one welcome the ban. You can't step out of my house these days without some lad trying to decapitate you with a samurai sword. They're everywhere. Young fellas like nothing better than to munch down some drugs, creatine I think they call it, and head out on a samurai sword rampage, knocking over wheelie bins and scaring good citizens like myself.

I'm so glad that the government knows where it's priorities lie. Clearly we needed more control over crappy, decorative, unconcealable edged weapons. I reckon all the money spent to put this through the houses and the subsequent spending on getting these threats off the streets is worth it. Now me and the rest of the Joe Duffy listenership can walk the streets without fear at last.

westcoastshuri

What annoys me here is that it is a knee jerk reaction to media hype .

All through last year there were front page headlines of Samurai sword attacks . In fact one of the daily rags-sorry newspapers ran a "ban the samurai Sword" campaign . I followed this with some interest and that paper in the whole of last year reported 5 incidents of Samurai Swords being used , three were actual attacks and two were incidents where swords were brandished .But it sells papers and captured the mind of a public that was growing wearly of knife crime . Never though did that same paper talk to the Martial Arts community to get a balanced view .

Its a simple fact that we know , the police know and criminals probably know - this ban will solve nothing . The weapon does not provide the intent only in some cases the opportunity. That said , when the intent is there another opportunity in terms of an available weapon will always present itself . Yes a 26" blade when used in a threatening manner is probably very effective as its sole purpose is to cut people however the same people who are using them can easily find something else to carry .Personally I would be more wearly of a knife or cleaver as a sword is harder to use but thats just my opinion .

As others have said in terms of young men and women carrying swords on a daily basis then logistically that presents a problem . I wear long coats myself on occasion and I cant hide one despite any highlander fantasies I may have : ) I can however hide knives , scissors , screwdrivers etc with ease .

I personally feel we need to increase the powers of the police to stop , seach and sieze where appropriate and marry this with a voluntary state licensing of Martial Artists enabling us to carry weapons to and from training . I dont see this as an invasion of civil liberties as some might as I dont carry anything illegal - except currently when going to and coming from training .We also need to legislate the sale of these weapons i.e who is selling them retail in our country and who is posting them to us from abroad . When any one posts a package to Ireland they need to state on the label what is included how hard would it be to monitor this and in case of inffringments remove a companies ability to export to Ireland .Also as a citizen of Ireland I recognise that we do have an issue with people carrying weapons and accept that we need to take steps to deal with this and if it means my suffering the occasional search then I am prepared to make that sacrifice . I also dont see this as an ideal situation but as a start perhaps .

SD_DRACULA

so if i wanted to buy one from america would i get in trouble for it?

asharkman

Hi, does anyone know where you can get training with samurai swords or something similar, i'm doing karate at the mo and wouldn't mind doing some weapons training too!

Unpossible

Sorry for going off topic, but is it ok to bring a sword in luggage? I was hoping to get some nice looking bronze chinese broad swords and bringing them home if they don't weight a ton. Or would I be better off posting them home?

westcoastshuri

Hi Asharkman

where abouts are you located ?

Darren