Where am I going wrong?

LegacyUser

So I come onto boards and read all these problems about women putting up with their boyfriends cheating or boyfriends that dont treat them right etc...basically going out with dickheads and it actually depresses me!!

Im a pretty decent looking guy, or so im told (was called gorgeous the other night by a random hot girl)! I get compliments from women all the time on my dress sence and always get told im really nice or im a gentleman and my mates who constantly pull are forever trying to give me pep talks about how Im the best looking guy in the group and how some of their girlfriends had fancied me more then them but I never pull and have never had a girlfriend! Any of my female friends or female work colleagues are always baffled by this. Im quite social and generally confident but the only thing is Im shy when it comes to women I like and would never approach a women but then again women never approach me!! I even notice women checking me out alot but I just look down! If I know someone isnt interested or im not interested in them then Im perfectly at ease with them and have no trouble having a laugh with them.

Its like the nights a couple of my mates met their girlfriends. I was there on both nights, both girls apparently fancied me more but they didnt go for me, they went for my mate....why!!! I know Im a great catch for anyone and would treat them right and it annoys me so much when I read about women putting up with cheating or when women say where are all the good ones gone.....where am I going wrong?

LegacyUser

Hey there,
Well it sounds like from what you are saying that you just don't seem that interested when a girl is trying to catch your eye and you look to the ground.
I would think 'oh damn - not interested'
I know easier said than done but you should try to just strike up general chit chat with girls around you that you may be interested in and flash a smile or two, that always helps
the conversation doesn't have to be anything profound just small talk
and even if you find it hard you should try and keep eye contact with someone if you think you/they may be interested
Look at it like a game at first and try not to be conscious about it and sure if all else fails
If you have a great personality to go with them looks you can ask me out anytime

Kirnsy

maybe ask your mates gfs why they didnt go for you.

tbh you seem to be giving all reasons for girls to like you.

you should approach girls more often if you are as described in post.

LegacyUser

OP ~ women don't want nice guys. They want strong guys with a bit of adventure who know how to take the lead. Your shyness gives of the impression that you lack confidence which can also appear that you are not interested. This can turn off women straight away. You can dress as nice as you want and be the best looking guy in the room but girls will still go for the lesser attractive guy or the guy wearing the dodgy shirt because you come off as weak and afraid to be a real man. If you try to approach girls while not having addressed these issues be prepared for a fair few rejections.

Here is the bones of a conversation that got me laid recently. Approach hot girl ...

[Me] Hi I really like your dress.

[Girl] Well thank you

[Me] Did you buy it in Dunnes?

[Girl] Actually no its from Brown Thomas

[Me] Oh I see. I thought I saw the very same dress on sale in Dunnes last week.

I turn and go back to my group of friends. I pretend to ignore the girl all night and make sure I put my arm around as many good looking girls as possible until the girl in question approaches me and demands to be validated. This will only work if you exude the confidence that you can have any girl in the room but may also lead to a drink being tossed in your face.

MIN2511

Don't ask anyone, the next time you are out why don't you CHAT a girl up... Not friendly, if you want flirt with her... talk dirty, whatever just avoid the FRIEND ZONE

LegacyUser

I am in the same situation my friend, except for the good looking bit. I am a nicce guy and get on well with everyone but have never even kissed a girl.
I am just looking for a bit of advise as I managed to get my first date ever with this girl I really like, we are going to the cinema to see that Brad Pitt film. Just wondering, what can I do, should I do anything? I don't know I am just really nervous. Thanks

deathstarkiller

Oh dear, how many of us are there out there? Was it always this difficult for guys to figure this out or is it something that has developed in the last ten years or so? There just seems to be more and more of us guys who just do not have a clue how to chat up women, make moves. etc. They should teach it in school or have night courses in it.
I liked that move the guy made telling the girl he seen her dress in Dunnes but reading it I just though to myself there is no way in hell I could ever do something like that. Not only did he have the confidence to walk up to some girl he doesn't know and say all that but then was able to talk to other women all night too. That's some serious confidence.
I don't think the people who can do these things understand how almost impossible it is for those of us who can't.
I have the confidence to do many things, I act in quite a few plays in front of hundreds of people, I've travelled, done a solo parachute jump, etc but put a woman in front of me and I lose it. Give me a parachute any day over having to talk to a woman I fancy or I don't know.
Also I'm not all 'oh poor me', I dress well, look after myself, have loads of hobbys. I don't hate myself, I actually think I'm awesome (in my world anyway). This is the only part of life I have a major issue with.

MIN2511

Advise? wrote: »

I am in the same situation my friend, except for the good looking bit. I am a nicce guy and get on well with everyone but have never even kissed a girl.
I am just looking for a bit of advise as I managed to get my first date ever with this girl I really like, we are going to the cinema to see that Brad Pitt film. Just wondering, what can I do, should I do anything? I don't know I am just really nervous. Thanks

Hey there, don't stress too much about it... Just try to have a good time....
What can you do? Have a great time!
Should i do anything? Be yourself, don't panic and end up cracking stupid jokes due to nerves.... Look at it this way, she must like you to want to watch a 3hr movie with you!

Goodluck and don't forget to update us

Beruthiel

Unregistered wrote: »

Im shy when it comes to women I like and would never approach a women

There's your problem.
Make an effort and approach them.
You maybe shy but you won't die from the effort!

I was there on both nights, both girls apparently fancied me more but they didnt go for me, they went for my mate....why!!!

Because you didn't come on to them and your mates did?

Das Kitty

Unregistered wrote: »

OP ~ women don't want nice guys. They want strong guys with a bit of adventure who know how to take the lead. Your shyness gives of the impression that you lack confidence which can also appear that you are not interested. This can turn off women straight away. You can dress as nice as you want and be the best looking guy in the room but girls will still go for the lesser attractive guy or the guy wearing the dodgy shirt because you come off as weak and afraid to be a real man. If you try to approach girls while not having addressed these issues be prepared for a fair few rejections.

Here is the bones of a conversation that got me laid recently. Approach hot girl ...

[Me] Hi I really like your dress.

[Girl] Well thank you

[Me] Did you buy it in Dunnes?

[Girl] Actually no its from Brown Thomas

[Me] Oh I see. I thought I saw the very same dress on sale in Dunnes last week.

I turn and go back to my group of friends. I pretend to ignore the girl all night and make sure I put my arm around as many good looking girls as possible until the girl in question approaches me and demands to be validated. This will only work if you exude the confidence that you can have any girl in the room but may also lead to a drink being tossed in your face.

Words really fail me here.

OP, the only thing you need to do is strike up conversations with women you are attracted to and not give up if you get fobbed off by one. Eventually you will find someone who you click with. The beauty of this method is that you don't need to be good looking, a good dresser or even a game player like the above poster, you just need to be you. There are plenty of possibilities out there for everyone if they are brave enough to just start chatting.

LegacyUser

I used to be the same a few years back before I got with my g/f. I'm not a bad looking guy and whenever I'm with a girl, I know that I treat her good, am affectionate and never rude or violent. However I was also pretty shy and found it hard to talk to girls in bars/etc, thus my mates always ended up going out with a lot more girls than me.

Eventually I decided that instead of being nervous and aiming to pick up a girl (which puts more pressure on me and usually ends up with me sitting & looking shy with my head down!), I should just go out and enjoy the act of actually having conversation with a female. No end goal, not trying to get into her knickers or anything else ........... just fun and lighthearted conversation which both of us would enjoy. And at the end of the conversation, go off and talk to someone else for a while, again just for the joy of socialising rather than chasing tail.

By removing that pressure, I found it easier to approach females and initiate conversation, and predictably, the knock-on effect was that I actually pulled a lot more than I had ever done.

jessbeth

Not all girls like bad boys, I'm referring to one of the posts above. Maybe a girl with little self esteem would respond to such rubbish.

Anyway why don't you try approaching the girls, it sounds like you're waiting for them to chat you up, why not make the first move, let a girl know that you're interested and maybe if you're in the market to make friends first and then see what happens.

Desperation can be dreadfully unappealing. I don't know if you appear like that, I can't tell from the post. Just be yourself, friendly and chatty and not afraid to make the first move.

Mixedup

Unregistered wrote: »

OP ~ women don't want nice guys. They want strong guys with a bit of adventure who know how to take the lead. Your shyness gives of the impression that you lack confidence which can also appear that you are not interested. This can turn off women straight away. You can dress as nice as you want and be the best looking guy in the room but girls will still go for the lesser attractive guy or the guy wearing the dodgy shirt because you come off as weak and afraid to be a real man. If you try to approach girls while not having addressed these issues be prepared for a fair few rejections.

Here is the bones of a conversation that got me laid recently. Approach hot girl ...

[Me] Hi I really like your dress.

[Girl] Well thank you

[Me] Did you buy it in Dunnes?

[Girl] Actually no its from Brown Thomas

[Me] Oh I see. I thought I saw the very same dress on sale in Dunnes last week.

I turn and go back to my group of friends. I pretend to ignore the girl all night and make sure I put my arm around as many good looking girls as possible until the girl in question approaches me and demands to be validated. This will only work if you exude the confidence that you can have any girl in the room but may also lead to a drink being tossed in your face.

oh dear god don't try that...you sound like a lovely guy, just be nice, but initiate conversations with women you are interested in, and dont over think it to much, you'll be nervous the first few times but feck it!
you'll meet someone yet!

puglover

Unregistered wrote: »

OP ~ women don't want nice guys. They want strong guys with a bit of adventure who know how to take the lead. Your shyness gives of the impression that you lack confidence which can also appear that you are not interested. This can turn off women straight away. You can dress as nice as you want and be the best looking guy in the room but girls will still go for the lesser attractive guy or the guy wearing the dodgy shirt because you come off as weak and afraid to be a real man. If you try to approach girls while not having addressed these issues be prepared for a fair few rejections.

Here is the bones of a conversation that got me laid recently. Approach hot girl ...

[Me] Hi I really like your dress.

[Girl] Well thank you

[Me] Did you buy it in Dunnes?

[Girl] Actually no its from Brown Thomas

[Me] Oh I see. I thought I saw the very same dress on sale in Dunnes last week.

I turn and go back to my group of friends. I pretend to ignore the girl all night and make sure I put my arm around as many good looking girls as possible until the girl in question approaches me and demands to be validated. This will only work if you exude the confidence that you can have any girl in the room but may also lead to a drink being tossed in your face.

Hate to say it but SOME of that is correct. We do want strong confident men (well I do anyhow), and looking down or being unable to have a conversation with us will either look weak, or simply that you aren't interested.

However unregistered guy we don't want complete a*sholes... I'd hate to think what kind of idiot women you pull with those tactics!!

LegacyUser

Let me translate a few things here:

Nice guy=a guy with no confidence who never objects to things or voices opinion in the fear of not being liked.

Treat them right=I’m so afraid of losing them that I would do anything they ask in order to keep them and avoid confrontation

Shy when it comes to talking to girls= I have no confidence in my self to approach a girl and start a conversation in the fear of being rejected or coming across as boring so I just avoid it.

Dude you could be Brad freaking Pitt and if you have no personality it does not matter.
Having good looks will only gets you looks from girls.
You wanted to know what is wrong, there you have it mate ,it does not matter how others perceive you it’s how you perceive your self and how you think about it things that matters.
I may come across as harsh here but I don’t really mind cuz it’s the truth and the sooner you wake up and smell it the better of you are mate.

St Bill

Unregistered wrote: »

OP ~ women don't want nice guys. They want strong guys with a bit of adventure who know how to take the lead. Your shyness gives of the impression that you lack confidence which can also appear that you are not interested. This can turn off women straight away. You can dress as nice as you want and be the best looking guy in the room but girls will still go for the lesser attractive guy or the guy wearing the dodgy shirt because you come off as weak and afraid to be a real man. If you try to approach girls while not having addressed these issues be prepared for a fair few rejections.

Here is the bones of a conversation that got me laid recently. Approach hot girl ...

[Me] Hi I really like your dress.

[Girl] Well thank you

[Me] Did you buy it in Dunnes?

[Girl] Actually no its from Brown Thomas

[Me] Oh I see. I thought I saw the very same dress on sale in Dunnes last week.

I turn and go back to my group of friends. I pretend to ignore the girl all night and make sure I put my arm around as many good looking girls as possible until the girl in question approaches me and demands to be validated. This will only work if you exude the confidence that you can have any girl in the room but may also lead to a drink being tossed in your face.

Give it five/ten years and you'll be wondering why all your friends have longterm girlfriends/are married while you're eating cold beans out of a tin because you still believe cooking is women's work :P

LegacyUser

St Bill wrote: »

Give it five/ten years and you'll be wondering why all your friends have longterm girlfriends/are married while you're eating cold beans out of a tin because you still believe cooking is women's work :P

LOL ~ maybe some people don't see a LTR or marriage as something to strive for and are quite happy within themselves without having to look to another person to 'complete them'.

Wibbs

The dress scenario is all very well and I can see where you're going with it, but any half way smart woman is going to come right back at you and ask "why the hell was a man looking at dresses on sale". Game over.:D If they didn't and fell for that, they must be really into you and will accept it or I fear they may lack opposable thumbs.

IMHO For the most part for someone in your position asking women what attracts them is strangely not very helpful. They almost always say, "just be yourself" nice, actually true in a lot of ways, but pointless as if being yourself worked up to now, you wouldn't be in this situation. Or they almost always say, "we want a nice guy". Again nice and entirely true, but their defintion is totally at odds to how guys define nice.

This comes up on a regular basis of late. As deathstarkiller noted. IMHO it's because more and more men nowadays have women friends. That's cool. I have a few myself, but never ones I fancy. Life is too short.
I see them as a different thing entirely. They may as well be gender neutral. In the past men were close to women only if they were family or lovers pretty much. In many ways talking to "strange" women or men outside those groups was considered weird for many. It's much better nowadays in so many ways, but it has given rise to this issue more and more.

Yes any serious relationship I would have the would have to be my friends too, but it doesn't start out like that. My first thought is am I sexually/romantically attracted to them. That's it. End of. It's absolutely wonderful if I also gel with them as a friend too. That's called love. Even in love I would treat them differently than a mate. Of course they're more than a mate. It's more important than that.

Because of this(very recent) change in the men women dynamic, these men tend to approach women as mates and not potential lovers. It should be lover first, friends later not the other way around. For the most part that's how women select men. They either "feel it" or they don't at the start. The "feel" bit is "do I want to have sex with this guy". Simple as. They may deny it or dress it up in moon and june romance and that's cool, but that's what it boils down to. men do this too, but with a more scattergun approach.

Yes there are plenty of examples of men and women being friends first. It happens, but IME where it does, in the majority of cases, either the woman has already put the guy in the "maybe" zone(even in the back of her mind), or the man and woman have started as mates, spent time apart and then reconnect and the woman feels a sudden difference of opinion towards the guy.

Men and women are much the same. They want and need the same things from a lover. But there are differences. Too often both genders assume the other acts and reacts like their own gender and get dissapointed or rejected when they don't. Women often complain that men don't read their subtle signals. They don't because men don't do the same kind of subtle. Same goes for men. "Why doesn't she see I'm a nice guy". For a start she won't if you never approach her. She won't if she knows you're aiming for her knickers, but approach her as a "friend". It's dishonest and actually controlling. You're using subterfuge and it's obvious and a turn off. They get used to subterfuge and sexual dishonesty from a succession of men from a very early age. They know what you're after(cos she's after it too), so if you deny that by being "nice" you look a bad bet. If a guy goes up to a woman and simply asks "fancy a shag?". He'll likely get a slap, but at least he is being honest in a weird way and he is also giving her the choice and power to say "sod off buddy" or "yes please".

First off. Treat yourself with respect and treat yourself as a man. A man who has something to offer to the world, has romantic needs and expresses them. Then treat her with respect and treat her like a woman. Treat her like an individual you're attracted too. Flirt with her. Let her flirt with you. Listen to her(biggy) and react accordingly. Don't think of her as a friend. You've just met her. Be equal with her. Don't immediately start buying her drinks. You wouldn't with a male stranger. If it's your round yes, but otherwise I would avoid. It looks like a bribe. Here's a drink, so I expect action. Sooo many men pull that one. If she rejects you, that's her right. Do not get stroppy. You'll look like a gimp. Accept rejection. It happens. That particular woman didn't like you. So what? There are dozens around at that very moment in that very club/pub/wherever that may. Move on.

Basically if you want a girlfriend, look at the word itself and what comes first. Think of her as a girl first and a friend second.

Phew long one:D

St Bill

Unregistered wrote: »

LOL ~ maybe some people don't see a LTR or marriage as something to strive for and are quite happy within themselves without having to look to another person to 'complete them'.

Ah but you were looking for someone else to complete you, even if it was for 'one night only'. Don't pretend you're above it all 'cos it ain't working :pac:

St Bill

Wibbs wrote: »

First off. Treat yourself with respect and treat yourself as a man. A man who has something to offer to the world, has romantic needs and expresses them. Then treat her with respect and treat her like a woman. Treat her like an individual you're attracted too. Flirt with her. Let her flirt with you. Listen to her(biggy) and react accordingly. Don't think of her as a friend. You've just met her. Be equal with her. Don't immediately start buying her drinks. You wouldn't with a male stranger. If it's your round yes, but otherwise I would avoid. It looks like a bribe. Here's a drink, so I expect action. Sooo many men pull that one. If she rejects you, that's her right. Do not get stroppy. You'll look like a gimp. Accept rejection. It happens. That particular woman didn't like you. So what? There are dozens around at that very moment in that very club/pub/wherever that may. Move on.

OP, print this off, laminate and put it in your wallet.

BumbleB

Start working out. Working out properly , raises your testosterone level and women pick on this , also it makes your posture more erect and you look more dominant ,alpha and fit looking.Worked for me. Need to sort out the eye contact thing too , don't look away or down until she looks away first but don't scare her ,soften your expression a little.D'ont look down ever ! if you have to look away look away sideways and smile before you do so. Fake your confidence for long enough and it will be congruent .

LegacyUser

I don't think it's anything complicated really. Just relax and make eye contact with a woman in the room. You'll know you've got the go ahead if the two of you are constantly making eye contact. If your with mates and you are laughing, while you are still smiling make eye contact again. Don't leave it too long as you don't want to miss the boat so walk up to her and simply ask her if she would like a drink. If she says ok then you introduce yourself and begin the small talk, probably with I like your dress or something like that then are you having a nice night? where are you from? etc etc.

sunnyside

deathstarkiller wrote: »

I don't think the people who can do these things understand how almost impossible it is for those of us who can't.
.

That is so true, not just for PI issues.

Dunnes dress guy, I did laugh at your post and I do see how it could work but I'm also thinking that if I was having had a low self confidence episode I'd probably spend the night thinking "Does my dress look cheap?" "It must be really horrible if a man came up to me just to say that" "I won't wear this dress again".....Just trying to point out that you could unintentionally upset someone with this game playing.

OP I think you need to stop comparing yourself to your friends. I know it can help to watch and learn how other people do things but if you depend too much on other people's methods of doing things you'll never have any confidence in yourself.

Wibbs

sunnyside wrote: »

Dunnes dress guy, I did laugh at your post and I do see how it could work but I'm also thinking that if I was having had a low self confidence episode I'd probably spend the night thinking "Does my dress look cheap?" "It must be really horrible if a man came up to me just to say that" "I won't wear this dress again".....Just trying to point out that you could unintentionally upset someone with this game playing.

Yep but funny even if that did happen, it may still work albeit not in a healthy way. The woman may if she's insecure then fight for the attention of the guy, because he made her feel bad. She's feeling the wrong emotion but it's an emotion so she goes with that.

deathstarkiller

Wibbs wrote: »

First off. Treat yourself with respect and treat yourself as a man. A man who has something to offer to the world, has romantic needs and expresses them. Then treat her with respect and treat her like a woman. Treat her like an individual you're attracted too. Flirt with her. Let her flirt with you. Listen to her(biggy) and react accordingly. Don't think of her as a friend. You've just met her. Be equal with her. Don't immediately start buying her drinks. You wouldn't with a male stranger. If it's your round yes, but otherwise I would avoid. It looks like a bribe. Here's a drink, so I expect action. Sooo many men pull that one. If she rejects you, that's her right. Do not get stroppy. You'll look like a gimp. Accept rejection. It happens. That particular woman didn't like you. So what? There are dozens around at that very moment in that very club/pub/wherever that may. Move on.

Basically if you want a girlfriend, look at the word itself and what comes first. Think of her as a girl first and a friend second.

Brilliant stuff Wibbs. It all makes sense too. I just need to learn to somehow impliment it.
It's a vicious circle I have myself in. I'll meet a woman, we'll get along, arrange to meet up, go for drinks/movies/etc. and we'll become friends and that's when I decide if I'm interested in them or not. I need to know we get along, have fun together and have similar interests, etc before I'm willing to go further but by then I'm in the friendzone.
Anyhoo these are my problems. For the OP, maybe you're just not good in nightclub/pub situations. Why not take up some hobbies like drama or something like that where you'll meet loads of women?

LegacyUser

OP HERE. Thanks for all the replies.

BumbleB wrote: »

Start working out. Working out properly , raises your testosterone level and women pick on this , also it makes your posture more erect and you look more dominant ,alpha and fit looking.Worked for me.

I hit the gym 5-6 times a week so I think I have that one covered! Its not as if I am some shy and retiring quiet guy sitting in a corner afraid to talk or look at anyone. Im perfectly fine in social situations and can chat to anyone but its once I really fancy them I do turn into that quiet shy guy...its just tough not to. Its as if it's hard wired into me or something, its my default setting when Im into someone and Im sure it does come across as not interested.

Also someone said I might come off as desperate...I think the opposite of that is closer to the truth. Take work for example, there are women there Im not interested in romanticly and so I talk away no problem to them. A couple of these women have hit on me and I have turned them down, the acts of a desperate man....I think not! Then take the ones I do fancy, I probably havent said even the word hi to any of them!!!

I did ask one of my friends girlfriends before why she didnt go for me when she fancied me but went for my mate instead and she said she was intimidated by me and didnt think she stood a chance. She did though, but of course I just kind of ignored her and gave her no sign I was interested. The funny thing is now she is my mates girlfriend and Im not interested I am able to chat away without a care in the world.

Maybe the pub/club scene just isnt for me. Im a slow worker and really need to get to know someone I fancy before I can be myself with them....its just so annoying!!!

BubbleWrap85

O N L I N E D A T I N G
might actually work. And it's not just for freaks, as I met my current boyfriend on there and pleased to admit that neither of us fall into the freaks category! Perhaps it's not for everyone, but I tried it and a couple of weeks in ended up with a great guy!

BumbleB

Thats cool everything helps, I dunno but my situation was pretty much the very same I'm very tall and I used to be very shy, still am in fact ,just excellent at hiding it .What I found worked for me is just to get out of my head and just have fun.Your friend's girlfriend nailed it on the head you are projecting the wrong kind of body language you are coming off as aloof.I know I used to be the same then I got fed up and I just started to have more fun talking to girls taking the piss out of them in a friendly way.

LegacyUser

MIN2511 wrote: »

Hey there, don't stress too much about it... Just try to have a good time....
What can you do? Have a great time!
Should i do anything? Be yourself, don't panic and end up cracking stupid jokes due to nerves.... Look at it this way, she must like you to want to watch a 3hr movie with you!

Goodluck and don't forget to update us

Thanks. I took your advise and just enjoyed myself. Went to the film and all went well and we are planning on doing it again. Thanks Min