Satellite Broadband Ireland

marsbars

Has anybody heard of www.satellitebroadbandireland.ie (tooway)?

I'm in a valley in the depths and will never have broadband - 2meg, two-way, always-on for 45 euro seems the best out there. Does anybody have any experience of them? Their customer service is very good plus they claim they will have a 10meg service, limited availability in the middle of next year.

Has anybody ever used Skype with satellite broadband? Looking to replace my Eircom phone with this - is this a good idea?

jor el

Satellite and VOIP is pretty much not going to work. The latency would be up to 2 seconds for two way, putting a huge lag in your conversation. I've spoken with someone on satellite broadband before, using Skype, and it was a disaster.

CutzEr

I really don't see how 2 seconds is a disaster, while with mobile broadband it is usually around 15 seconds...

marsbars

All I want to be is contactable - not big for conservations - is it that bad the whole time or just some of the time?

Would it be better if it was faster, or is it the technology that is the problem?

jor el

marsbars wrote: »

Would it be better if it was faster, or is it the technology that is the problem?

The issue is the speed of light, and the fact that the satellite is 50,000km away. The round trip time will never improve, until they figure out how to get radio waves to travel faster.

I would say it's an issue, as it kills a conversation, even a short one.

I wouldn't have thought the latency on mobile broadband was 15s, unless there's a severe problem. Typically it's around 2-300ms, but could be several seconds at times.

watty

latency on mobile is 0.12s (120ms), rising to 2s (2000ms) or even more.
Because of how satellite IP spoofing + DNS and ARP cache tricks, the 790ms delay when you click on a webpage, then BANG! the page is loaded all at once.

At 250ms latency it can take 1s (1000ms) or more latency for web page as the http request (the click) requires ARP, DNS and if off-site content in a page all that again. So overall ping can be x6 latency for resolving all content to start loading it.

VOIP also on Mobile "Broadband" can be poorer than on satellite as the jitter between 120ms and 300ms wrecks the buffering and echo cancellation.

If Skype is not "relaying" then latency is about 850ms and a conversation is possible on satellite. Still, not a viable SIP or Skype VOIP platform.

Mobile is equally useless generally for VOIP/SIP/Skype. "3"s Skype phone is actually a 3G call to a 3 server which then converts to skype. So it isn't really a Skype client, won't work on any other Mobile phone network if you get it unlocked, but is actually a working solution, Though technically identical to 3G phone call to/from a Skype IN or Skype out phone number.

watty

BTW you can't make radio waves faster*, so Satellite latency can't be fixed.

No Mobile Call even VOIP is ever 15s latency (15,000ms), at that stage data rate would be about 20kbps and the link would have failed.


(* unless you invent one of these Ansible gadgets.)

CutzEr

Ok, I may have over done it at 15s :P

marsbars, Have you noted the €899 install charge for this service? :P

Fuzzy Clam

Those prices are exclusive of VAT.
I'm surprised they claim its VoIP compatible. I have used Skype on the Digiweb satellite and found it frustrating. Certainly not recommended.
Download limits are very small too. You could exceed it very easily.

marsbars

Cutzer

Yeah noticed steep payments - tbh just don' know what to do.

Satellite is only option - and will be like that forever (three different bb companies have told us this). I need always-on BB and would hope for VOIP also.

Skydsl I currently use - one-way, 1meg, 25 euro pm plus 30-40 euro extra per month on phone line charges.

NBB seem poor from just phoning them.

National Broadband Scheme (from other threads here) seems to be a joke.

Anyone else got any suggestions?

watty

Satellite then, but Mobile for phone. I pay €15 a month for 50mins with O2 (min 18 month contract) and any amount of incoming, about €10 saving on just eircom line rental.

Check out Digiweb Satellite too and double & triple check for Fixed wireless.

You can even get a dedicated Wireless link. Starts about €10,000 but at least it's real internet and can be 10Mbps to 1GBps depending on distance and speed.

Or two MMDS type dishes with encrypted WiFi bridge to someone that can get Broadband costs under €500 if DIY. About 12km possible.

marsbars

oh yeah - forgot to mention, no mobile reception! Maybe it's time to move! Trying out antenna/receiver for mobile reception or else will just have to suffer Eircom's line rental (plus Vodafone's for mobile - when I'm not at home).

CutzEr

Maybe you should move if you MUST have the best internetz :P

mumhaabu

CutzEr wrote: »

Maybe you should move if you MUST have the best internetz :P

Not really helpful tbh.

marsbars wrote: »

oh yeah - forgot to mention, no mobile reception! Maybe it's time to move! Trying out antenna/receiver for mobile reception or else will just have to suffer Eircom's line rental (plus Vodafone's for mobile - when I'm not at home).

Before you go for a drastic move I may have a solution to your problem! Whereabouts in the country are you and where is the "Broadbandless Valley"??

I have an idea that could give you fast speeds and low pings and satellites are not involved.

Fuzzy Clam

mumhaabu wrote: »

I have an idea that could give you fast speeds and low pings and satellites are not involved.

Care to share this this idea?

mumhaabu

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Care to share this this idea?

Well the reason I asked the OP his location was to ascertain nearby broadband availability. The plan would be to send broadband wirelessly to the OP using a simple Access point and CPE. Depending on the distance and line of sight it could be done for a hell of alot less than than the costs involved with Satellite.

watty

About €500 one off for up to 8km, maybe 12km at a pinch.

Maybe 2 to 11Mbps rather than 54Bmps also.

Plus ongoing cost of electricity and BB off whoever has it.

A pair of MMDS style dishes on chimneys. I spent 2 years not finding some one to get this off, till I got Metro from Digiweb in Nov 2005.

Fuzzy Clam

mumhaabu wrote: »

Well the reason I asked the OP his location was to ascertain nearby broadband availability. The plan would be to send broadband wirelessly to the OP using a simple Access point and CPE. Depending on the distance and line of sight it could be done for a hell of alot less than than the costs involved with Satellite.

Agreed, a lot cheaper. I thought maybe you had figured out a way of getting BB without using conventional methods.;)
I reckon it can be done for even less than Watty suggests. 250-300 Euro max. 2 routers 100 e, 2 antennae 100 e, cable and plugs etc 100 max. Accomodating neighbour - Priceless

Disclaimer

Doing this is illegal of course unless you have the relevant permit.

mumhaabu

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Disclaimer

Doing this is illegal of course unless you have the relevant permit.

The 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz spectrum frequencies are licence free and I'd consider it much wronger that the op cannot get broadband in the first place. Some ingenuity and now-how with a smidgen of funding can get get Broadband this way. All you are doing is extending your Broadband from point A to your home at point b and you are all set, connect your remote neighbour or friends and let the thing pay for itself... You could hang 2 or 3 houses off a 7meg connection no bother.

watty

Ordinary WiFi doesn't work at such distance, you need custom firmware.
Inc proper mounts, weather proof boxes (routers/Bridges go on mast behind dish, can connect down via CAT5), decent routers reprogrammed as long range bridge etc, and all else, if you get much change out of €500 you are using the wrong gear.

You may have issues with using 5.8GHz outdoors, as outdoors it's used by registered WISPs.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

Ordinary WiFi doesn't work at such distance, you need custom firmware.
Inc proper mounts, weather proof boxes (routers/Bridges go on mast behind dish, can connect down via CAT5), decent routers reprogrammed as long range bridge etc, and all else, if you get much change out of €500 you are using the wrong gear.

You may have issues with using 5.8GHz outdoors, as outdoors it's used by registered WISPs.

It can certainly be done over several Kms using standard gear with no problems. Its tried and tested!

Fuzzy Clam

mumhaabu wrote: »

The 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz spectrum frequencies are licence free and I'd consider it much wronger that the op cannot get broadband in the first place.

I agree thats its wrong. I'm the last person to be overly concerned about the legalities of using this equipment but after getting a bollicking from Watty before:rolleyes:, I would be cautious about advising unless I was certain that its legal.

The original doc (02/71) still available on Comregs site clearly states the parameters in which SRDs can be used. Power levels/indoor use etc. Updated docs show that the permitted powers have been increased but I'm uncertain if this invalidates the original doc.

watty

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

It can certainly be done over several Kms using standard gear with no problems. Its tried and tested!

no. You need to change timing parameters. Some standard gear may have settings you can change, most hasn't. Your ordinary WiFi router for home use won't do it out of the box.

Yes the gear that does it is standard off the shelf. But it's not the ordinary domestic stuff.

Fuzzy Clam

Timing should not be an issue up to approx 3 km.

OneBarrel

I've done this often outside Ireland, up to 5 miles with equipment less than €500. Used Tranzeo gear, simple to use.

Sponge Bob

wi-pipe will have all the right gear if you need to go 5 km in one or even two hops . Yes it could cost €500 but compared to 2 way satellite that is a good deal. A competent sat dish installer would do the rest in a few hours ...not a sky installer mind

http://www.wi-pipe.com/wireless_antennas.php?number=8

mumhaabu

Sponge Bob wrote: »

wi-pipe will have all the right gear if you need to go 5 km in one or even two hops . Yes it could cost €500 but compared to 2 way satellite that is a good deal. A competent sat dish installer would do the rest in a few hours ...not a sky installer mind

http://www.wi-pipe.com/wireless_antennas.php?number=8

Yeah & Justin from wipipe is a real nice guy to deal with. I live in a BB blackspot and did this for myself with help from my friend and it works perfectly. I have a DSL lines at my friends house in a DSL town and have them delivered to my home wirelessly and I was no expert (set up a Belkin home wifi router was my previous experience). This was my only way besides Satellite and this a better service as I too used skydsl in the past.

If anyone here ever wants some help with this I'd be happy to help if possible . I think a group called Irishwan used to do this in the early days of broadband helping out each other. I wonder are they still active?

jor el

mumhaabu wrote: »

I think a group called Irishwan used to do this in the early days of broadband helping out each other. I wonder are they still active?

Some of Irishwan's network was bought up by a commercial entity, I believe. They had some great info, and help, back in the days before broadband was widely available. And by back in the day, I mean just a few years ago

country_guy

hey Marsbars, I used Satellite broadband Ireland for satellite, very good....newish company with good team of engineers who at least know what they're doing. I have the Bronze package which is good for my needs, consistant and fast....does exactly what it says on the tin...plus if they can't get you connected you don't pay a penny..!

jor el

Enough with the shilling, country_guy, all 8 of your posts here are emphatically in favour of Satellite Broadband Ireland, and I don't believe anyone could be that happy with satellite midband.

country_guy

Hey, Superman's daddy.....and your problem with recomending a rural solution that works is...? guess you're from a dsl company then...maybe Eircom...!! arrrggghhhhh So what if it's midband and it works well, along with VOiP thru Blueface...[oh dear I've made another recomendation that works...] Grow the hell up...! ever consider that it actuallly works rather than comparing it to your NBB or SKYdsl...?

Cabaal

country_guy wrote: »

Hey, Superman's daddy.....and your problem with recomending a rural solution that works is...? guess you're from a dsl company then...maybe Eircom...!! arrrggghhhhh So what if it's midband and it works well, along with VOiP thru Blueface...[oh dear I've made another recomendation that works...] Grow the hell up...! ever consider that it actuallly works rather than comparing it to your NBB or SKYdsl...?

We can all view your previous posts and between all of them being about Satellite Broadband Ireland and posting in a three year old thread its very clear your a shill.

If you have any further problems with a mods decision take it to helpdesk as in thread discussion of mods decisions is not allowed and will get you banned, in addition making fun of a mod is not going to earn you any points with anyone.

ciscokidder

watty wrote: »

About €500 one off for up to 8km, maybe 12km at a pinch.

Maybe 2 to 11Mbps rather than 54Bmps also.

Plus ongoing cost of electricity and BB off whoever has it.

A pair of MMDS style dishes on chimneys. I spent 2 years not finding some one to get this off, till I got Metro from Digiweb in Nov 2005.

Does the MMDS have to be line of sight ? I have a relation in one of those valleys and another about 2.5 miles away from there. The latter has access to DSL. No line of sight. Currently using modile bb but its dire.

jor el

country_guy wrote: »

Hey, Superman's daddy.....and your problem with recomending a rural solution that works is...? guess you're from a dsl company then...maybe Eircom...!! arrrggghhhhh So what if it's midband and it works well, along with VOiP thru Blueface...[oh dear I've made another recomendation that works...] Grow the hell up...! ever consider that it actuallly works rather than comparing it to your NBB or SKYdsl...?

I don't work for any ISP, I also didn't compare your's to anyone else's, nor did I say it didn't work. Your posts are those of a shill, simple as that.

country_guy

I don't know what a "shill" is nor a "mod", please explain...? the reason why my replies relate to it is because people were asking and I had it, so I gave "my opinion" and that of "my experience"...

Cabaal

country_guy wrote: »

I don't know what a "shill" is nor a "mod", please explain...? the reason why my replies relate to it is because people were asking and I had it, so I gave "my opinion" and that of "my experience"...

I'd suggest you take a look at http://wiki.boards.ie and perhaps post in Newbie & FAQ Forum if that doesn't answer your query

Now can we get this thread back on topic, no further off-topic discussions

watty

ciscokidder wrote: »

Does the MMDS have to be line of sight ? I have a relation in one of those valleys and another about 2.5 miles away from there. The latter has access to DSL. No line of sight. Currently using modile bb but its dire.

The odd bush or Tree might be OK, but ground / buildings / hillside will block 2.4Ghz.

ciscokidder

Thanks for that.

Sponge Bob

Is there a point to which you both have line of sight and where there is power for a radio , could be a neighbours house or a cowshed on a hill , do it in two hops via that point!

watty

A truck battery and a large 40W solar panel if no ESB.
A repeater can get by on 11W.
You need about 4:1 ratio between solar panel power and 24x7 equipment consumption as the days can be short.