Chatting Up/First Move

LegacyUser

Hey. I would just like some advice. I am a 22 year old male. I am a person who has no problem making friends, gets on well with girls and enjoys going out. The problem is that I can't seem to "get women" when I'm out. I have no problem talking to girls in my day to day life and have many friends who are female, I'd actually say I get on better with girls than guys. However when Im in a pub/club I have never been able to chat up a girl. Many other guys I see seem to be able to do it easily and I usually see ppl getting together on the dance floor when Im in a club. How do u go about approaching a girl in a pub/club. It seems to be a problem even when I'm drunk, I just can't make that first move. I'm lost

Wibbs

Need Help wrote: »

I have no problem talking to girls in my day to day life and have many friends who are female, I'd actually say I get on better with girls than guys.

Strangely maybe this bit is part of your problem. You're so used to women as friends that you approach potential lovers the same way and you come across too much as a friend.

D

Well what I find works is: just go up to a girl, smile, introduce yourself, give her a compliment, ask her some questions and just start talking. If you get the feeling that she likes you, then just ask her out for a drink/social event. If she says yes ask for her phone number and continue chatting. Then call her then next day or the day after and arrange for drinks/social event.

Edit: If you are unsure whether to approach a girl or not try to catch her eye and smile, but to be honest that can take a while, just find a girl you like that seems to be nice and go up to her.

GeeNorm

No casanova here but two types of nights in my opinion.

Firstly, drinking socialising night. Drink loads, relax, more mates the better.

Secondly, scoring night. Drinking much less so at a disadvantage earlier (less dutch courage) but advantage later (more coherence). With 2/3 mates max in scoring formation whereby each of you know that you are only standing beside each other so you can check out the room without looking weird (i.e. not to get into deep conversation). Doing all the groundwork before approaching a girl by catching eyes, smiling etc so that when you do finally approach her, she'll see you as an acquaintance.

cantdecide

Talk about things you're comfortable talking about but just make stronger eye contact and smile. As a genuine guy, that's about all you've got to declare your interest without trying these 'pick-up-artist' type techniques.

I've always agonised about how to put the moves on a girl. If you're like me, you probably aren't comfortable 'picking up' women so just try to be yourself. If they're not interested in a genuine, friendly guy, you're probably shoveling s**t up a hill anyway.

That is unless you just want to go on the pull, in which case, you probably should think about an altered persona and researching some techniques. But that's a whole other thing.

MikeCork2009

Get drunk and then target girls who are as drunk/drunker than you are. Its like a formula. Being sober and hitting on drunk girls aint on and sober girls wont give u a chance if ur drunk. So go on get hammered and try head somewhere u know there will be lots of drunk girls

LegacyUser

Wibbs wrote: »

Strangely maybe this bit is part of your problem. You're so used to women as friends that you approach potential lovers the same way and you come across too much as a friend.

Wibbs, I have thought about this before and that maybe I (and I know this is an awful and controversial thing to say) give girls too much respect. Other guys I know who are more successful at pulling women seem to have a "treat em mean" attitude. I dunno.

I was also wondering what the feeling is on going out and trying to pick up girls on ur own is, I mean on a night without your friends?

sunnyside

GeeNorm wrote: »

Doing all the groundwork before approaching a girl by catching eyes, smiling etc so that when you do finally approach her, she'll see you as an acquaintance.

Then when you do get talking to her it helps if you can include physical contact. It's difficult to explain what I mean. Think of somebody like Bertie Ahern, a man who is years older than the OP but his social skills are brilliant. If you see him speaking to people he always seems to be holding their hand or have an arm on the persons back. I think it's something that comes naturally to some men and is the sort of behaviour someone else would be labelled as sleazy for.

cantdecide

sunnyside wrote: »

Then when you do get talking to her it helps if you can include physical contact. It's difficult to explain what I mean. Think of somebody like Bertie Ahern, a man who is years older than the OP but his social skills are brilliant. If you see him speaking to people he always seems to be holding their hand or have an arm on the persons back. I think it's something that comes naturally to some men and is the sort of behaviour someone else would be labelled as sleazy for.

I do that naturally and habitually with male and female and I've done that with girls who I haven't been trying to chat up and gotten the cold shoulder as a consequence. If you thought Bertie was trying to sleep with you, you probably wouldn't be that receptive either:D

I take your point but I wouldn't go doing it from the off. In other words, if you're already making progress, you can think about introducing it as a technique then.

deathstarkiller

Wibbs wrote: »

Strangely maybe this bit is part of your problem. You're so used to women as friends that you approach potential lovers the same way and you come across too much as a friend.

You really are good at this stuff Wibbs.
That is exactly the problem I've had my whole life. Friends have told me I need to pull back on my friendlyness and show my interest more but I've no idea how to. I always thought that one day I'd magically be able to but at 35 it isn't happening. I'm collecting female friends like it's a hobby and I can't even ask them for help cause I'm sure if some of them found out the reason I became friends with them was because I fancied them they wouldn't be happy. I actually have moved past that with most of them and I don't fancy them anymore but there's one woman I met recently and we're hanging out and going to cinema and stuff all the time but it's just friends. Dang it!!

LegacyUser

deathstarkiller that's exactly what I am talking about. I can't get out of the friend zone. I think its cos I started being friends before trying to pull them or something. I don't really know how to interact with a girl and let her know im interested in her rather than come across as being friendly.

Wibbs

Look friendly is good. I'm not saying not to be friendly at all. I would say look at some of the behaviours that the guys who get women display. Do it like a project if you have to.

I would say(and may get slated for this ), take your women mates advice with a pinch of salt for the most part. Mostly because they're your mates and won't want to tell you because they haven't thought of you like that or don't want to hurt your feelings. Their advice will usually boil down to "just be yourself/you're really nice/the right woman will find you/etc". Of my women friends there would only be one who would give good practical advice on attracting women to a guy.

The guys who tend to be more successful at attracting and keeping women are friendly, but they're also clear at what they want from a woman they're interested in. They're not as scared of rejection either and they realise that there are always more options. They flirt with women. They touch them more. They direct and lead the conversation and the flirting more. They're confident and will just ask a woman out straight, do you wanna dance/get a coffee/get dinner/give me your number.

St Bill

Don't be shy of taking the next step.... and it's a tiny one because you've already most of the work done in that you can talk to people easily and get on with them. Take the plunge the next time and ask a girl for her number. It mightn't work to your expectations the first time (then again it might!), but it'll be so much easier to do the next time, or the time after etc. You've everything to gain from sticking your neck out just that little bit.

sunnyside

Wibbs wrote: »

.

The guys who tend to be more successful at attracting and keeping women are friendly, but they're also clear at what they want from a woman they're interested in. They're not as scared of rejection either and they realise that there are always more options. They flirt with women. They touch them more. They direct and lead the conversation and the flirting more. They're confident and will just ask a woman out straight, do you wanna dance/get a coffee/get dinner/give me your number.

That's exactly it. I love men who behave like that.

Edited to add: They wouldn't be drunk while doing this.

LegacyUser

Like you OP for years I was always the nice guy, the one that turned into the friend and I just couldnt see why I could never get the girls and my friends who would just say any old sh*t to women and treat them like crap always ended up with the girls!! Pissed me off to no end. So about a year or so ago I decided I needed to change tact and its worked. Now when I approach women im friendly but I never over do that friendlyness like I used to. I introduced a bit of touching, a slight touch of the arm or lean in to tell her something or pull her towards you to hear while placing your hand on the small of her back. Im also more forward, no beating around the bush never making a move wandering if she is interested or not. Just make it blatently obvious that you are and then ask for her number and head or go in for the kill. It should be pretty obvious after 10 minutes or so if she likes you....just stay out of friend zone!!!

LegacyUser

OP what I've found is after the intial introduction, almost immediately ask them if they have a boyfriend, lets them know you are interested in them, with less bullsh_iting around.

J.S. Pill

GeeNorm wrote: »

No casanova here but two types of nights in my opinion.

Firstly, drinking socialising night. Drink loads, relax, more mates the better.

Secondly, scoring night. Drinking much less so at a disadvantage earlier (less dutch courage) but advantage later (more coherence). With 2/3 mates max in scoring formation whereby each of you know that you are only standing beside each other so you can check out the room without looking weird (i.e. not to get into deep conversation). Doing all the groundwork before approaching a girl by catching eyes, smiling etc so that when you do finally approach her, she'll see you as an acquaintance.

Very good advice - Its important to be relatively sharp not only for coherence but also for being able to pick up on subtle signals etc.

deathstarkiller

Oh dear, I must be really bad so, cause I can get the phone number, ask them to meet for a drink, meet them and still just be friends. I make a habit of it too. I still feel as bad as I was when I was a teenager a lot of the time. I have a friend who is fantastic with women but what he does makes me cringe. The funny thing is he never has anything that lasts with women and he says he can't be their friend and envies the way I can be. I need to find the happy medium.

LegacyUser

Hey, I'm not the OP but I wanted to add to this:

I'm in similar situation to the OP. I've hear all the same stuff, dress well, look good, dance good, nice guy, etc...

I've even got so frustrated I've just MADE myself start approaching girls and trying to me fun and playful but it gets me nowhere. They just aren't interested. I met my last girlfriend 2 years ago and that was the last time a girl showed ANY interest in me. That relationship is LONG over and I need to move on.

I don't want to be a Casanova, I don't want drunk club girls. I just wanna be able to talk to a girl, maybe get her number and hopefully go out once and see how it goes.

I have got so much as a single number since that time 2 years ago. I try talking to girls and they can't wait to leave. You can see it in their faces. No interest, looking around for an excuse to leave. I don't know why it has to be so hard. I've tried the Hi and compliment approach. I tried being funny, I tried the sort of cocky thing like the dunnes dress story. Different approaches, different reactions but result = less than 30 seconds of me talking before she leaves or her friends interject to get her away.

What is wrong with me?

gags89

i dno if i will get in trouble for this or whatver but just from personal experience, google meet your sweet by slade shaw and i actually bought his e-book and you get a bunch of other stuff too kind of like a tv. offer and it changed my life!

Piriz

Unregistered wrote: »

Like you OP for years I was always the nice guy, the one that turned into the friend and I just couldnt see why I could never get the girls and my friends who would just say any old sh*t to women and treat them like crap always ended up with the girls!! Pissed me off to no end. So about a year or so ago I decided I needed to change tact and its worked. Now when I approach women im friendly but I never over do that friendlyness like I used to. I introduced a bit of touching, a slight touch of the arm or lean in to tell her something or pull her towards you to hear while placing your hand on the small of her back. Im also more forward, no beating around the bush never making a move wandering if she is interested or not. Just make it blatantly obvious that you are and then ask for her number and head or go in for the kill. It should be pretty obvious after 10 minutes or so if she likes you....just stay out of friend zone!!!

haha blatantly obvious alrite

Wibbs

Piriz stay on topic please.

SoWatchaWant

OP, step outside your comfort zone. Do what the others do, copy them.

Also, don't be afraid of rejection. I get with women often enough, but only one in maybe ten approaches to a girl leads anywhere.

If I get blown out of the water in front of my freinds, they laugh and I laugh, and I get brownie points. Nothing is lost.

You should learn to roll with that, and not let it knock your confidence.

Hope that helps.

stateofflux

Unregistered wrote: »

OP what I've found is after the intial introduction, almost immediately ask them if they have a boyfriend, lets them know you are interested in them, with less bullsh_iting around.

listen to this mans quote and lodge it in your brain....nice guys finish last....i don't know how many times ive seen friends of mine standing at a bar for the whole night talking to a girl only to find the boyfriend coming over at the end of the night....
be direct ...at the end of the day no matter what you say to a girl (unless you are rude or sleazy)she has made up her mind up whether she wants to sleep with you....and even if you don't score this saturday you will feel better that you had the balls to try instead of wondering....it will boost your confidence for the next time....its all to do with confidence.....nothing else really

LegacyUser

What if you do try but you're always turned down?

My friends are shorter fatter and always horribly drunk when we go out.

Yes, they are my friends but they are always taking girls away from me. I used never approach but I got nowhere and started but girls ahve no interest, my firneds dont approach but they come in and take the girls I talk to cos now they have an opening.

This always happens. I'm fed up of being freak.

scanlas

To unregistered above, I know your pain, check out rsdnation.com

Also check out this guys blog, www.alexattitude.com

pure genius

dyl10

Just remember

- The cocky man gets the scores

- The reliable man gets the girlfriend

stateofflux

Unregistered wrote: »

What if you do try but you're always turned down?

My friends are shorter fatter and always horribly drunk when we go out.

Yes, they are my friends but they are always taking girls away from me. I used never approach but I got nowhere and started but girls ahve no interest, my firneds dont approach but they come in and take the girls I talk to cos now they have an opening.

This always happens. I'm fed up of being freak.

sorry man but you need to wake up and smell the reality here.....

fact 1: no real friends act the way you described yours...get new friends....they don't respect you....and no, being drunk is not an excuse...

fact 2: never put yourself down...you are fulfilling your own nightmare....you are getting turned down because you don't believe you will get the girl....and girls can sense easily if you are nervous or too self conscious......

just chill out and play it cool...its apple and pears...some girls like certain types of guys...unless you look like quasimodo you have as much chance as the rest of us....

That_Guy

I'm kind of the same I must admit. I know friends of mine who can pull girls no bother when they're out. They do use stupid chat up lines though which is not for me at all.

I don't ever usually go out with the intention of pulling girls to be honest. If it happens it happens.

I did try having a conversation with a couple of girls on different nights in the smoking area. I wasn't trying to "get any". I was merely attempting to have a genuine conversation with somebody. Anyway all of these girls thought they were all high and mighty and brushed me aside. I've resented girls for this reason. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you're being asked to basically not talk to a girl unless you are stereotypically good looking and have the personality of a Big Brother contestant.

I don't see why it's guys who have to initiate conversation. Cannot it not be the other way for a change or will that shift the whole time and space continuim. <---- Not sure if I spelt that word right.

Anyway if I can offer any sort of advice to the OP, then I would recommend the cliched expression of "be yourself". If girls don't like who you are then so be it but just make sure they're not bitches about it. No offence to the girls who don't do this.

Oh and one final point. What do girls themselves like to hear from guys chatting them up?

LegacyUser

Personally I gave up even trying a long time ago, it seemed like women were only interested in issuing put-downs to boost their own ego at my expense.

Typical respnses when I did try always seemed to be unnecessarily cruel e.g.
No, wouldn't touch you with a bargepole
No, never in a million years
Ex-g//f: Dont know what I ever saw in you, take a look in the mirror.

Unfortunately for me most of those comments happened in my early teens and really put me off the idea of ever approaching a girl again. As a result of comments like that I spent most of my teens trying to accept that women did not find me anyway attractive and would never be interested in me.

One girl when I was 17 seemed to change that - just one of those "by chance two seperate glances meet" moments and for the next 6 months as much as I wished I could, I could just never gather the confidence to approach her, after a few more months when I eventually I said hi and asked her name, she gave me her name and promptly walked off again. (An amazing looking girl who gave me sweaty palms and palpatations every time I saw her). Then onto college where I thought things would be different - how foolish was I. 1st girl I paid any attention to went along with it for the whole of 1st year, we got on really well, flirted a lot, then she went to Germany for the Summer - we exchanged letters while she was away, but then when she returned, she just ignored me for the next 3 months. 2nd girl I paid attention to, we were "together" a few times (non-sexual, just kissing mostly) before she went to the States for the summer, we were really close and during the summer I wrote and told her how much I liked her and how much I was looking forward to her return - she gets back and also refuses to speak to me - this time for 6 months, after which I was supposed to forgive and forget everything and welcome her with open arms, when I didn't, I was suddenly the bad guy. So my only conclusion after all this was women are cruel, not to be trusted, irrational and will walk all over you every chance they get.

Anyway as a result of my experiences I am now an early 30s virgin, I avoid as much as possible any unnecessary contact with the "fairer" sex and am now half way down the road to being a bitter old bacherlor.


Unless you want to end up like me, I would advise a "who cares if i fail" attitude. I have a friend who is generally considered attractive by females. I have seen him approach women in bars when he was completely pissed and fall over while he was trying to chat them up. His response to the inevitable rejection in that case? Move along to the next girl at the bar, and purely for what I deem to be the shallowest reasons (i.e. he's good looking) he always "scores" by the end of the night, despite him having a devoted girlfriend in Galway who thinks he is a saint. Sorry if I've painted women in a bad light, but that's just my personal experience. I didn't ask for it, want it or even deserve it, but that's what I got.

stateofflux

sorry man but you also have to wake up. everybody is different...not all girls are the same....its like saying i don't like dutch people...after one dutch person had a fight with me.

it really really annoys me when people are rediculously irrational about how the world percieves them because of low S.O.....you are in your early 30's...big deal...you are not 70 man(ive seen 45 year olds look better than stressed 22 year olds)....if you keep with this 'woe is me' thing then you WILL be a lonely old mysogenistic batchelor. you did'nt get those girls because you were being too nice...and needy....

again i say be cool and realise that there are thousands of girls out there that are mad into you but if you keep looking through negative blinkered eyes then you might miss the one staring at you in the corner who is really nice...

Wibbs

That_Guy wrote: »

I did try having a conversation with a couple of girls on different nights in the smoking area. I wasn't trying to "get any". I was merely attempting to have a genuine conversation with somebody. Anyway all of these girls thought they were all high and mighty and brushed me aside. I've resented girls for this reason. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you're being asked to basically not talk to a girl unless you are stereotypically good looking and have the personality of a Big Brother contestant.

They could just have been muppets or were scoring points for their ego in front of their mates, or they knew what you were actually after and didn't want to go along with that. Of the times in my life I've gotten the cold shoulder from a woman out of a night, it happened way more when I was actually just trying to be friendly, than when I was obviously on the pull. Strange but true. Your mileage may differ though.

I don't see why it's guys who have to initiate conversation. Cannot it not be the other way for a change or will that shift the whole time and space continuim. <---- Not sure if I spelt that word right.

For the most part and in general it's in the nature of things. Yes there are some who will initiate, but they're rare. Most women prefer the man to lead the dance IME.

Oh and one final point. What do girls themselves like to hear from guys chatting them up?

Whatever answer you get, I would be surprised if it goes beyond "I want a nice guy" type of thing. That's no reflection of the good intentions, more a reflection of the fact that hetrosexual women don't chat up women, so all they go on is what they want, or what they think they want.

onemorechance

I have a friend who always seems to have / get girls. We have always wonderied how he manages this, as we have seen him drunk and trying it on with every girl in the place. I once even saw him trying it on with three girls at once with a big long hey, a smile and then a luagh! But, it works. Not every night, but enough that he has plenty of phone numbers built up for the nights where he doesn't get a new girl. If picking up a girl in the club is what you want, just try every single girl in the place with a hey, smile and a laugh and you will eventually score.

LegacyUser

Openers that have worked for me:

I love chocolate,

I remember you from playschool, you stole my crayons.

Wooooooh ( big smile)

Let's play a game.

You guys seem fun (smiling), I had to stop by for a sec.

I lost my contact lens.

You dropped something.

Spill a lttle bit of drink on the girl. she usually spills some back on you. Then you make friends.

You're so adorable I had to come over and say hello.

Hey, come here.

Are any of you good drivers? my friend and I are robbing a bank later but our getaway driver has a toothache.