Dell Failed Graphics Card Major Issue

jetpilotUK

Hi everyone,

Lots of discussion here I hope you don't mind me asking for some assistance with a problem I'm having with my Dell XPS 1710 laptop

Basically about two weeks after my warranty expired last October the Nvidia graphics card failed catastrophically and I'm now unable to start in normal mode, limiting my work and play to safe mode which is obviously not very good. I was in Spain when it failed on long term study, and returned at Christmas to try and fix it.

After many phone calls and mis-direction by the Dell "support team", they said they'd call with a quote for a "replacement"...they never did. Furthermore, I did get some support with reinstalling drivers and a new BIOS only for it to fail again two days later.

Replacement is a touchy word as mentioned above. Dell have been using refurbished graphics cards to "replace" those that have overheated and subsequently died...and in the vast majority of cases the cards have failed a few weeks down the line which screams out design fault though both Dell and Nvidia aren't willing to accept this.

So, four months after the initial failure and after all that hassle I wrote to Dell's head office here in the UK and they aren't really helping all that much. Their last offer is for me to pay to replace it, which sounds the same as shooting myself in the foot!

Some links as evidence that this issue isn't just me:

http://msmvps.com/blogs/brianmadsen/archive/2008/09/16/dell-xps-m1710-gaming-laptop-overheating.aspx
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=337289&page=3
http://gizmodo.com/5021713/lots-of-nvidia-laptop-graphics-cards-are-overheating-dying#viewcomments
http://gizmodo.com/5030036/dell-issues-bios-update-to-keep-nvidia-geforce-cards-from-frying#viewcomments

Furthermore, the European Commission Consumer Affairs website states "

• If the item you bought does not look or function as it was advertised, or if it is not satisfactory, you have the right to have the item replaced at no extra cost or to get your money back if the replacement was not completed in a reasonable time.

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/citizen/my_rights/index_en.htm

The problem is that Dell aren't consistent in their handling with this issue. Some are told to buzz off, others that they must pay for the repair, and some get a replacement straight off!

I'd like to ask if any of you on here might know someone at Dell who may be more understandable and able to help sort out my problem, as simply replacing the part is like putting a plaster on the laptop and won't leave me happy at all!

Thanks for your time, please do get in touch

Jetpilot

Attached is a picture of the problem from another user

tallaghtoutlaws

Same thing happened me last week jetpilot and unfortunately It cost me 380 euro to get it replcaed as my laptop is out of warranty. Unfortunately living in a family full of engineers we knew the argument would be fruitless under two reasons:

1. Out of warranty

2. Electrical components fail especially in computers and laptops. There are millions of reasons why so take you pick.

Once it goes out of warranty you are on your own. That advise the European consumer agency gave you is BS. It served its purpose but failed down the line. You will notice with all computers that no timeline is ever gauranteed for components, as no one is ever sure how long any given component will last for. Some people get lucky and have their PC or Laptops for years without any problems some dont. My laptop went 3 years before the Nvidia card failed.

Sponge Bob

A design fault implies that it is intended to fail just outside the warranty . Is there any US Class action about to help prove this ???

tallaghtoutlaws

Sponge Bob wrote: »

A design fault implies that it is intended to fail just outside the warranty . Is there any US Class action about to help prove this ???

After researching it myself it doesnt seem anyone has ever done. The cost of trying prove a design fault would huge. And if it was a design fault then every single laptop would fail just after 12 months. My one lasted 3 years same card as the op and I know others with them and theirs have never failed. If you google this there is mad claims all over the place and forums like this. And the opinion is split down the middle. The same could be said for most electronic products especially when it comes to laptop parts.

Sponge Bob

Three years is OK tbh , especially if the warranty is 12 months .

tallaghtoutlaws

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Three years is OK tbh , especially if the warranty is 12 months .

Exactly thats why I paid for the service. Thing is though reading through all the various article and forums on the flip side of the coin, it couldnt be a design fault as then folk like me would have never gotton 3 years out of it ye know. Anyways computers and electrons will always be one of these things that continue to baffle human logic etc etc.

smelltheglove

Its luck of the draw I guess. I bought a hp laptop and 2 wks before warranty was up it stopped working. Unfortunately as op I was abroad, on my honeymoon, and by the time I was back it was out of warranty and I could not prove it happened before warranty was up. Under my advice my sister had bought the same laptop shortly after me and a few weeks before her warranty was up she started getting the same issue, problems starting up etc and I brought it to be repaired straight away.

These things happen and no matter what happens to anyone else your warranty is up and that is that, you paid for something guaranteed for one year and it worked for one year. Quality isnt as good as it used to be unfortunately, we all remember the days when a nokia phone would last you 2 years easily now a year and then they start going its all business for the manufacturers, we want things cheap as chips so we have to accept they arent as high quality as they used to be.

Dell already dished up a list of its notebooks affected by failing nVidia graphics chips and offered up a BIOS patch to accompany said systems, but it seems the company isn't finished yet. In a similar move to HP, Dell is now extending the standard warranties on systems with the dodgy nVidia chips by 12 months, if these systems fail because of a problem with the GPU.

The all important line from the Direct2Dell blog reads: " Dell will offer a 12-month limited warranty enhancement specific to this issue. For all customers worldwide, we plan to add 12 months of coverage for this issue to the existing limited warranty up to 60 months from the date of purchase for the following systems:"

This warranty extension is a worldwide affair, and more details are supposed to be announced in the next few weeks. If you don't fancy having your GPU fan spinning at an extremely annoying pitch and volume or playing with copper (to awesome effect) then the knowledge that your notebook will almost certainly be replaced should it die will doubtless be comforting. In all likelihood, any GPU lasting past the extended warranty's lapsing is almost certainly going to be okay.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/notebooks/news/2008/08/19/Dell-Extends-Warranty-For-nVidia-GPU-Failures/p1

LolaDub

I went through dell hell to get this fixed when it happened on my xps, eventually got a replacement which failed too! The national consumer agency said if enough complaints were found they might make their own complaint to dell but didn't do individual complaints. I've heard of this issue countless times, any chance they'll look at it again?

Elessar

smelltheglove wrote: »

Its luck of the draw I guess. I bought a hp laptop and 2 wks before warranty was up it stopped working. Unfortunately as op I was abroad, on my honeymoon, and by the time I was back it was out of warranty and I could not prove it happened before warranty was up. Under my advice my sister had bought the same laptop shortly after me and a few weeks before her warranty was up she started getting the same issue, problems starting up etc and I brought it to be repaired straight away.

These things happen and no matter what happens to anyone else your warranty is up and that is that, you paid for something guaranteed for one year and it worked for one year. Quality isnt as good as it used to be unfortunately, we all remember the days when a nokia phone would last you 2 years easily now a year and then they start going its all business for the manufacturers, we want things cheap as chips so we have to accept they arent as high quality as they used to be.

Nonsense.

It's been said many many times before as many people just do not understand their rights. I'll say it again.

Manufacturer warranties provided for any item are just that, warranties. They do not affect your statutory rights. What that means is they don't replace your rights as a consumer. Regardless of what the warranty says, the product you bought must be free from defects in workmanship and material. It must be fit for its intended purpose.

If you have a reasonable expectation for your laptop to last longer than its warranty period, I would file a case with the small claims court. 90% are settled out of court.

Of course the key word here is "reasonable". For example, it would be reasonable to expect a €1000 laptop to last longer than 12 months (covered under its warranty), in fact even longer.

But you would have a hard time fighting a case to expect a replacement or refund of that same laptop three years after you bought it. Each case is judged on its own merits.

Point being, just because a product is out of warranty and it breaks does not mean the manufacturer is not liable.

Have a read of this, under EU law electrical goods can be covered by a 2 year warranty, this was on of the main reasons Microsoft extended their warranty to 3 years.

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l32022.htm

I know of one person here on the boards that quoted the above and got sorted after the 12 month warranty was up.

lostprophetsie

hellboy99 wrote: »

http://www.trustedreviews.com/notebooks/news/2008/08/19/Dell-Extends-Warranty-For-nVidia-GPU-Failures/p1

Mine went last summer and again yesterday. Called them this evening and being out of warranty i thought there would be trouble. Went through a few troubleshooting steps even though I knew it was the same problem I guess its required for them. The laptop is being repaired Monday so pretty happy with that. Annoying that it will probably happen again but at least the support for the replaced part is now 5 years.

nmesisca

Hi there,
this is a very well known and documented issue with Dell/HP mainly. Has affected a few Apple products as well.
You can read about the ins and outs and technicalities on the inquirer. just search for 'Nvidia' and 'bumps'.
The issue is caused by a production issue causing 'bumps' in the substrate of the chip to appear following a steeper-than-usual therman delta.
The firmware you were given was not supposed to fix the problem really, but only work around it by speeding up the fan in the laptop. All it does in the best case scenario is to delay the problem until (hopefully for Nvidia) the laptop is out of warranty.
I m not sure if there is a class action on this but if that happened to me I would make sure I gather evidence of the problem and contact a consumer association.

N

lostprophetsie

I've been told Im getting the updated chipset but pretty sure I got this last time too, so is it just a disaster waiting to happen again?
With the warranties extended for 5 years on this problem I don't really see where you are coming from nmesisca?

nmesisca

..and hopefully you will get a new one.
Of course there is no repercussion on you if the company has decided to extend their warranty to 5 years for that.. I wasnt aware of that, sorry..
If I may give you a suggestion, once in a while run a temp monitoring program for a few hours and see what you come up with, if you notice higher than usual temps, its time for a cleaning!

N

PS if you wanted to make sure they changed the chipset (mobo) maybe you have written down the asset number from the BIOS? compare with the new one and see if they match..

the_syco

lostprophetsie wrote: »

I've been told Im getting the updated chipset but pretty sure I got this last time too, so is it just a disaster waiting to happen again?
With the warranties extended for 5 years on this problem I don't really see where you are coming from nmesisca?

Eh... up to 5 years. Also...

Dell will offer a 12-month limited warranty enhancement specific to this issue. For all customers worldwide, we plan to add 12 months of coverage for this issue to the existing limited warranty up to 60 months from the date of purchase for the following systems:

...as you said your laptop was out of warranty, I'm guessing it's over a year old, and thus that means you'll get under 4 years of warranty left.

hellboy99 wrote: »

Have a read of this, under EU law electrical goods can be covered by a 2 year warranty, this was on of the main reasons Microsoft extended their warranty to 3 years.

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l32022.htm

Read it, doesn't mention anything about a 2 year warranty.

lostprophetsie

I was given the impression from the agent on the phone that the 5 years was on the defected part from the last replacement but what your saying sounds more likely. I just hadn't fully understood where you were coming from.
Even if this is the case, I probably won't have the same laptop in 3 and 1/2 years anyhow so it doesn't affect me too much.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

Read it, doesn't mention anything about a 2 year warranty.

It's at the bottom of the page:

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l32022.htm

Council Directive 85/374/EEC of 25 July 1985 on the approximation of the laws, regulations and administrative provisions of the Member States concerning liability for defective products [OJ L 210 of 07.08.1985].

This Directive specifies the direct liability of the producer for defective products. The consumer has three years from the date on which he becomes aware of the defect in which to initiate proceedings. The producer's liability ceases ten years after the relevant product is put into circulation.

Daemonica

Hello. I believe you can easily resolve that problem. It is Dell's fault that your graphics card died, you simply pushed it too far or done something in a game you are not telling us about. Cards don't die for no reason. They die from overheating.

The main issue with the Dell signed nVidia cards is an error message called nv4_disp.dll

This is a driver file in system32. If you get that error, it means the gel on your card that absorbs heat has faded and you need to replace it.
Laptops are not meant for gaming at all. Especially Dell laptops. Unfortunately you fell for the consumer trap my friend. No laptop is going to function long while being used for high end games. It is the way Dell laptops are designed, with the heat sync way in the back and the fans giving no respite to the graphics card at all.

Dannyboy83

Daemonica wrote: »

Unfortunately you fell for the consumer trap my friend. No laptop is going to function long while being used for high end games. It is the way Dell laptops are designed, with the heat sync way in the back and the fans giving no respite to the graphics card at all.

Unfortunately, I believe this to be true.
Don't forget, Dell had quite big problems with batteries not so long ago.

For the record, I bought a HP for my girlfriend for gaming last xmas and there are no problems as of yet.
I decided to boycott Dell after their treachery in Limerick and recently purchased a computer from Aldi which I'm thrilled with.
Its a Medion and I purchased it for about 75% the cost of the same Dell system.

You should keep your eyes open for their next offer.

foggy_lad

Daemonica wrote: »

Hello. I believe you can easily resolve that problem. It is Dell's fault that your graphics card died, you simply pushed it too far or done something in a game you are not telling us about. Cards don't die for no reason. They die from overheating.

The main issue with the Dell signed nVidia cards is an error message called nv4_disp.dll

This is a driver file in system32. If you get that error, it means the gel on your card that absorbs heat has faded and you need to replace it.
Laptops are not meant for gaming at all. Especially Dell laptops. Unfortunately you fell for the consumer trap my friend. No laptop is going to function long while being used for high end games. It is the way Dell laptops are designed, with the heat sync way in the back and the fans giving no respite to the graphics card at all.

but dell have always sold their xps laptops as high end gaming laptops

nmesisca

Daemonica wrote: »

Hello. I believe you can easily resolve that problem. It is Dell's fault that your graphics card died, you simply pushed it too far or done something in a game you are not telling us about. Cards don't die for no reason. They die from overheating.

The main issue with the Dell signed nVidia cards is an error message called nv4_disp.dll

This is a driver file in system32. If you get that error, it means the gel on your card that absorbs heat has faded and you need to replace it.
Laptops are not meant for gaming at all. Especially Dell laptops. Unfortunately you fell for the consumer trap my friend. No laptop is going to function long while being used for high end games. It is the way Dell laptops are designed, with the heat sync way in the back and the fans giving no respite to the graphics card at all.

(as an IT engineer for almost 20years)
sorry I hope you're not serious with this post cause thats just a load of BS..

Harcrid

nmesisca wrote: »

(as an IT engineer for almost 20years)
sorry I hope you're not serious with this post cause thats just a load of BS..

+1

BostonB

The 7950 gtx in those is known to overheat and fail. You could replace it with a 7900GS as they seem to be more reliable. That said this is a design fault with the cooling and they should really fix it for you, or replace the machine.

Daemonica

Daemonica wrote: »

It is Dell's fault that your graphics card died, you simply pushed it too far or done something in a game you are not telling us about. Cards don't die for no reason. They die from overheating.

First off it's not Dell's fault, they are not the OEM of the card, nVidia are. Yes it's an overheating problem but it doesn't die because you ran a game or pushed it too far, it's a design flaw, it could just as easily go on you even if there is no load of programs running.

And it's not just laptop GPU that were faulty, the GTX 8800 PCI-EX cards were also affected with the same fault.

BostonB

AFAIK its the poor cooling that makes the 7950 gtx fail in the xps 1710. The 7900GS also an option in the 1710 runs cooler because it slower, and has better cooling.

The later chips like the 8400, 8600, 8800, fail for a different reason, a flaw in the manufacture of those cards. It may even effect the 9xxx series too. They fail in all laptops, not just gaming laptops, and in all brands, Apple etc.