Quite annoyed about getting my money back

raindog.promo

I took someone to the small claims court in december 2008 and won, the person was ordered to pay over the money he owed me. It took a year to bring the case to the small claims court.

This person assured me i would have the money returned to me throughout by certain dates which never happened, then had his solicitors in touch to organise something which again came to nothing.

This person didn't turn up to the court appearance, and never replied to the verdict sent out.

I then had to send the decree into the sherrif who will then send out a letter which he has 2 weeks to reply to. If he doesn't reply, they will send out another and if no reply then, they will go to get the money back themselves, of which there is no gaurantee and will also cost me cash if they can't recover the money owed.

Does it not seem a waste of court resources to have to keep chasing this guy and the fact that he can ignore all this as long as he wants (while everyone else runs around) without any penalisation on him a bit ridiculous?

Our man in Havana

That is the system. We must work within the system.

raindog.promo

What?

Perhaps change the system to make it more efficient for all concerned?

What was the point of your reply?

Our man in Havana

Did you sue a company or a private person.

I was saying that you must follow the procedures to get your money back. I know it is frustrating.

raindog.promo

The point is the person who owes me the money is not co-operating and there is no reason for him to do so, as there is no penalty against someone who does this, using up court and legal resources that could be put to better use elsewhere.

It may also be another 2-3 months before i get money back which belongs to me, yet this person has had it for over 14 months at this stage.

I'm pissed off that I can't have him charged with theft. I paid for goods I never received and still haven't received my money back. WTF?

dats_right

At this stage, am I right in saying that that you have:
1. Obtained a Judgement/Decree, and
2. Sent Judgement/Decree to Sheriff for Execution. ?

Because that's the easy part. Really you are only at the beginning of the debt collection process. There are numerous other more compelling enforcement measures that you can utilise such as, in the case of an individual debtor; seeking an installment order whereby the court orders payment of a specific sum periodically i.e. weekly, monthly, etc. If the installment order doesn't do the trick then you can seek to have the debtor subject to committal i.e. have him sent to jail for up to one month and still owe you the money. You could seek to have the judgement registered more on that below and if they own property you could seek to have a judgement mortgage registered against their property. And if it is a limited company that owes you the money you could threaten to and then seek to have judgement registered against them in High Court Central Office thereby ruining their credit rating as these judgements are reported in trade gazettes.

Ultimately, OP you have to make the decision whether you consider that by pursuing these remedies that you will get your money back because if not there's not much point in trying to get blood from a stone.

raindog.promo

Thank you very much, that certainly has given me more peace of mind. The whole process has been very frustrating and I thought I was basically being fecked around by this guy.

I put down the details on another forum as it happened

http://www.gigsmartireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=183&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Mods, sorry and remove if that's not allowed.

raindog.promo

Just to add, for anyone else in the same boat. Plenty of information explaining the debt collection procedures here:

http://www.mabs.ie/publications/leaflets/legal_sys.html

raindog.promo

It's been over two months now, and I've just been onto the Sheriff's office. Thing's aren't looking that good so I'm seeing what other options are available.

Hopefully someone here can answer a few of my questions.

(taken from the mabs.ie website)

http://www.mabs.ie/publications/leaflets/legal_sys.html

"The creditor can register judgment, which will mean that the debtors name and description of the debt will appear in Stubbs magazine."

Does anyone know what Stubbs Magazine is? Can't find any info on a net search.

Instalment Order:
This is an order whereby the court decides how much has to be paid in regular instalments.

Does anyone know how I would go about instigating this? who would I get in touch with?

I've been onto the sheriffs office about it, but didn't get much in the way of answers from them.

Any answers much appreciated, cheers.

lynchie

raindog.promo wrote: »

It's been over two months now, and I've just been onto the Sheriff's office. Thing's aren't looking that good so I'm seeing what other options are available.

Hopefully someone here can answer a few of my questions.

(taken from the mabs.ie website)

http://www.mabs.ie/publications/leaflets/legal_sys.html

"The creditor can register judgment, which will mean that the debtors name and description of the debt will appear in Stubbs magazine."

Does anyone know what Stubbs Magazine is? Can't find any info on a net search.

Instalment Order:
This is an order whereby the court decides how much has to be paid in regular instalments.

Does anyone know how I would go about instigating this? who would I get in touch with?

I've been onto the sheriffs office about it, but didn't get much in the way of answers from them.

Any answers much appreciated, cheers.

Tis a publication that lists all individuals / companies with judgments against them.

http://www.experian.ie/gazette.html

r14

http://businesspro.ie/judgments/stubbs.html

I would say go for it if you can get something registered against him. He's given you the run around for so long and you can make life very difficult for him if people see he's in stubbs. It's usually an indication that someone is heading towards bankruptcy so it is taken pretty seriously by banks etc.

Don't know about the installment order but it sounds interesting.

I found this talking about installment orders at point 6, but I think you'll need someone who actually knows about them to help you out.
http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0/4d2518aae894b13680256d2b0046a04d?OpenDocument

time lord

Bond-007 wrote: »

That is the system. We must work within the system.

Changing the system is always an option.

Our local sherrif passed on and his son is now the sherrif.

Only in Ireland. Never even saw the job advertised.

I work in a related field and the sheriff often comes back saying they had no ability to pay.

In reality on the ground he decides who pays and who doesn't. Makes the district court a waste of time.

raindog.promo

I was talking to the sheriff today, he said he has around €90 for me (out of €540) and it looks like that's all i'll be getting. The sheriff said the shop he's running has been closed and there's nothing else he can do. He's waiting on the person that owes me the money to ring him and that this person has said he's promised to pay up. I won't hold my breath.

A quick search on the net shows this person is now selling guitars through buy and sell.

http://www.buyandsell.ie/search/image_preview?pid=631349

Does anyone have any idea what the costs would be of seeking an installment order?

Our man in Havana

It you did it yourself around €20 in court fees.

raindog.promo

Serious? Cheers. I may just do that. Feck all else to do (not having any money ).

Could I ask if anyone knows where I can get more information about initiating an installment order proceeding? Or just call District Court? Perhaps Citizens Advice?

Our man in Havana

You need to issue a summons, the court will advise.

raindog.promo

For anyone else in the same boat, I came across this which is good, easy to understand reading.

www.redmondjohnson.com/Docs/ROI%20LEGAL%20DEBT%20RECOVERY.pdf

PDF on Legal Debt Recovery for Republic of Ireland.

One note of interest is on Page 3 of the pdf....

If you know that the debtor owns something valuable, for example a car, you can tell the Sheriff this and ask him to seize it; you must, however, be absolutely sure that the car belongs to the debtor and not to some other member family member or Limited Company.

Does anyone know where this would be stated in law? I wouldn't even know where to start looking.


A worrying note however on Page 7 of the pdf...........

AVERAGE COST OF LEGAL PROCEEDINGS
Example €1000 - €6000 debt – no dispute

 Outlays to obtain Judgment €450
 Sheriff Costs € 75
 Subsequent Correspondence € 75

Total €600

NB Recoverable Costs if Successful 50%

That's a bit costly if it applies to district court installment procedures.

vrfcno7

Does anyone know the limitation period within which you can commence a small claims proceeding? i.e. How long after the fact do you have before being statute barred from making a claim?

Our man in Havana

6 years.

Our man in Havana

raindog.promo wrote: »

For anyone else in the same boat, I came across this which is good, easy to understand reading.

www.redmondjohnson.com/Docs/ROI%20LEGAL%20DEBT%20RECOVERY.pdf

PDF on Legal Debt Recovery for Republic of Ireland.

One note of interest is on Page 3 of the pdf....



Does anyone know where this would be stated in law? I wouldn't even know where to start looking.


A worrying note however on Page 7 of the pdf...........



That's a bit costly if it applies to district court installment procedures.

Those are very expensive even for a solicitor.

The outlays for an instalment order application are minimal at just €20 court fee for the stamp on the summons. You just need to get the paperwork typed up and stamped and you are good to go.

If he fails to show for the hearing ask the judge for the whole amount to be payable in one instalment. That should get him going. If he ignores that you can apply to the courts for a committal order. That he cannot ignore.

Stick with it and you will win out.

raindog.promo

Jaysus, it never ends.

First up, how can I be absolutely sure the car belongs to him? that information is private and confidential, I can't think of anyway of proving this.

Second, I just got off the phone with the small claims court. I was asking if my small claims case has a report or that which I can get a copy of to prove I have won the small claim if needed. Or if there was a record of the case on the internet as the outcomes of the cases are meant to be public knowledge if I'm not mistaken.

Once more I got someone else's version of the law.

Apparently.............

(quick recap - I'm owed €540, debtor has paid sheriff €90 and wrote cheques that have all bounced. Bailif for the sheriff has told me more than likely I'll just get the €90 and that will be him finished with the case as far as the sheriff is concerned.)

A) If I accept the €90, I can't take any further case against him to recoup the rest of what I'm owed.

If I take the debtor to the district court, the small claims office will have to give copies of the case to the other legal departments involved. They will charge me a fee to do so.

Getting involved in legal proceedings is a bloody minefield.


Finally, There is also the matter of bringing the case to the district court. Do I need to wait for the final word from the sheriff before beginning proceedings? and to whom do I talk to about beginning the proceedings?

I'm about to ring the court services, so I'll post any more info I learn for anyone else in the same boat who happens to be reading this.

raindog.promo

I had the small claims decree returned to me from the sheriffs office.
It was stamped 17th August with “certificate returned” and a box with “ceased trading” ticked.
There was nothing else accompanying it. There was no mention of the €90 previously collected. I would have liked some sort of report saying what had happened as one of the times when I rang the sheriffs office they read out the details they had on the file mentioning this money and another time said there was no mention of the money?

I don’t know what this “ceased trading” status does to the whole shebang.
Why are these procedures not clearly written out for the public?

More links from my digging:

http://www.lawreform.ie/publications/data/volume6/lrc_49.html
http://www.liquidation.ie/Keeping_the_Sheriff_at_Bay/Keeping_the_Sheriff_at_Bay.734.html
http://www.lawreform.ie/publications/data/volume6/lrc_49.html

Our man in Havana

Different type of sheriff.

raindog.promo

Bond-007 wrote: »

Different type of sheriff.

Just realised that. Going to edit.

Builderfromhell

Fascinating story.
I sincerely hope you get your money back.
Regarding someones suggestion that you make life very difficult for this guy I'm not sure you should be expending energy on revenge. These type of people make their own lives difficult.
Focus on the issue of getting paid and put your other energies into music or something. otherwise something like this can become an obsession.

raindog.promo

Thanks.

The main frustration is how little straight forward information there is out there to get you through the court proceedings.

He's done worse to himself without me having to get involved in there too.