Fixed Penalty Notice Question

_Kaiser_

So I get a letter in the door today telling me that I owe our poor overburdened government €60 for driving on a median strip (yea yea I'm a bold boy, but the 2 guys ahead of me at the time got away with it of course!), but there's also a 2nd page for entering a hatched area and they want €80 for that!

Nevermind that the cop at the time couldn't even tell me what penalty the offence he was doing me for carried ("€60 I think and 1 or 2 penalty points") - my argument here would be that the idiots shouldn't be writing tickets in the first place if they aren't competent enough to know the full details, but anyway...

Can you be done for the same thing twice, or is this cop just chancing his arm? Both forms are dated with exactly the same time? Is it not one or the other?

_Kaiser_

Actually, having looked at the notice myself last night (the gf had rang me earlier), the 2nd one is for crossing a solid white line rather than hatched area - which then strikes me as the same thing as the first one?

Any advice?

Anan1

I can't see why two separate offences wouldn't be, well, two separate offences. No sympathy from me, i'm afraid - not least because you did it in view of a Garda.

BillyGoatGruff

Sorry to piggyback this thread. I went to court to re non payment of fine for holding mobile phone in car. The judge gave me the original fine after i explained my reasons. She did not mention anything about points and when i got the notice to pay out it didn't mention them either. This was about 2 months ago. The Q... Did i still get the points?

Eoin

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Nevermind that the cop at the time couldn't even tell me what penalty the offence he was doing me for carried ("€60 I think and 1 or 2 penalty points") - my argument here would be that the idiots shouldn't be writing tickets in the first place if they aren't competent enough to know the full details, but anyway...

That's a bit uncalled for.

deadwood

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

my argument here would be that the idiots shouldn't be writing tickets in the first place if they aren't competent enough to know the full details, but anyway...

Yes. They're idiots. Who overtook on a continuous white line in front of a patrol car . . . .twice?

dos30

I remember reading somewhere that if you're caught doing multiple offences at once you can only be prosecuted for the one that carries the greater penalty. I'll see if I can remember where it was.

dos30

dos30 wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere that if you're caught doing multiple offences at once you can only be prosecuted for the one that carries the greater penalty. I'll see if I can remember where it was.

Here we go so. It looks as if you have to pay the fines for both offences, but only get the points for one.

Q. What happens if I am stopped and a number of penalty point offences are detected?

Will I receive penalty points for each one? No. Using the scenario from the previous answer it should be borne in mind that the same driver in that scenario could have committed a speeding offence also and have been uninsured. The no-insurance offence is not a fixed charge offence so if convicted in court for driving without insurance and 5 penalty points are imposed then that being the highest number of penalty points attaching to any of the multiple offences involved would be the total number of penalty points endorsed on that drivers licence record on this occasion. The fixed charge for every individual offence, or a fine in court for every individual convicted offence, would apply however

http://www.penaltypoints.ie/faq.php

-Chris-

OT - I don't know why, but I always presumed that you were a Garda, Kaiser. Funny the way you build up an image of someone in your head when all you have to go on is their user ID and avatar...

TheNog

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

So I get a letter in the door today telling me that I owe our poor overburdened government €60 for driving on a median strip (yea yea I'm a bold boy, but the 2 guys ahead of me at the time got away with it of course!),

You were driving on a median strip?? Why in gods name were you driving on a grassy verge of a dual carraigeway or were you?

As for the other 2 guys there is a possibility they werent seen by the guard. I am presuming you were the third car behind these other 2.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Actually, having looked at the notice myself last night (the gf had rang me earlier), the 2nd one is for crossing a solid white line rather than hatched area - which then strikes me as the same thing as the first one?

Any advice?

Crossin a continuos white line and crossing a median are 2 separate offences.

BillyGoatGruff wrote: »

Sorry to piggyback this thread. I went to court to re non payment of fine for holding mobile phone in car. The judge gave me the original fine after i explained my reasons. She did not mention anything about points and when i got the notice to pay out it didn't mention them either. This was about 2 months ago. The Q... Did i still get the points?

NO points for you cos the judge must direct points be placed on your licence.

dos30 wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere that if you're caught doing multiple offences at once you can only be prosecuted for the one that carries the greater penalty. I'll see if I can remember where it was.

dos30 wrote: »

Here we go so. It looks as if you have to pay the fines for both offences, but only get the points for one.

Q. What happens if I am stopped and a number of penalty point offences are detected?

Will I receive penalty points for each one? No. Using the scenario from the previous answer it should be borne in mind that the same driver in that scenario could have committed a speeding offence also and have been uninsured. The no-insurance offence is not a fixed charge offence so if convicted in court for driving without insurance and 5 penalty points are imposed then that being the highest number of penalty points attaching to any of the multiple offences involved would be the total number of penalty points endorsed on that drivers licence record on this occasion. The fixed charge for every individual offence, or a fine in court for every individual convicted offence, would apply however

http://www.penaltypoints.ie/faq.php

A driver can be done for every offence committed but tbh if they are not serious offences then the offence most serious with highest fine and points should be selected and the other offences explained. Consider it an act of fairness really.

As for the no insurance will thats not a FCPS offence. You must be summonsed to court for it.

Eoin

TheNog wrote: »

You were driving on a median strip?? Why in gods name were you driving on a grassy verge of a dual carraigeway or were you?

Could it not also be the part between a sliproad and the motorway (i.e. before you are supposed to merge)?

TheNog

eoin wrote: »

Could it not also be the part between a sliproad and the motorway (i.e. before you are supposed to merge)?

That would be considered a hatched area same as the hatched area for drivrs turning right on a road

Eoin

TheNog wrote: »

That would be considered a hatched area same as the hatched area for drivrs turning right on a road

Ah - that would be the other offence he was done for then.

_Kaiser_

TheNog wrote: »

You were driving on a median strip?? Why in gods name were you driving on a grassy verge of a dual carraigeway or were you?

No I wasn't on the grass (literally or figuratively) I was in a line of traffic that then widens into a second lane for a right turn. After waiting 15 minutes, late for a meeting, and only inching forward in the first line while others shot up the side past me (on the other side of the road in fact), I edged out and followed 2 others about 50m before the right-hand lane starts. This is something that happens daily on this road - unfortunately for me, a TC car was coming out of a housing estate that is parallel to this road and stopped me.

As for the other 2 guys there is a possibility they werent seen by the guard. I am presuming you were the third car behind these other 2.

That was the Guard's reasoning alright, but I think it was more to do that it was a cold morning, he had a bad dose of the flu and was irritable throughout the conversation.

Crossin a continuos white line and crossing a median are 2 separate offences.

Fair enough. I'm not disputing that I got caught. I am a bit peeved that he didn't know the penalty for the offence he was writing me up for - only a guessed "€60 fine and 1 or 2 points, I'd have to look it up" - only to then get hit with 2 fines and 3 points for the same incident.

_Kaiser_

eoin wrote: »

That's a bit uncalled for.

I don't think so. Surely if they're going to be issuing tickets and points, they should at least be aware of the penalties involved, especially gven that it was a Traffic Corps car that stopped me.

As they're thus supposed to be a specialised/dedicated unit for road traffic enforcement, I don't think it's too much to expect that they should be at least versed in the laws themselves?

_Kaiser_

dos30 wrote: »

Here we go so. It looks as if you have to pay the fines for both offences, but only get the points for one.

Q. What happens if I am stopped and a number of penalty point offences are detected?

Will I receive penalty points for each one? No. Using the scenario from the previous answer it should be borne in mind that the same driver in that scenario could have committed a speeding offence also and have been uninsured. The no-insurance offence is not a fixed charge offence so if convicted in court for driving without insurance and 5 penalty points are imposed then that being the highest number of penalty points attaching to any of the multiple offences involved would be the total number of penalty points endorsed on that drivers licence record on this occasion. The fixed charge for every individual offence, or a fine in court for every individual convicted offence, would apply however

http://www.penaltypoints.ie/faq.php

Only seeing this now. Can this be verified by one of our Garda/TC posters? Will I need to contact the station in question to ensure this?

Anan1

AudiChris wrote: »

OT - I don't know why, but I always presumed that you were a Garda, Kaiser. Funny the way you build up an image of someone in your head when all you have to go on is their user ID and avatar...

It's his avatar, looks like Ponch from CHiPs.

_Kaiser_

Anan1 wrote: »

It's his avatar, looks like Ponch from CHiPs.

I never thought of that. I thought it was more one of the guys from Men In Black

FuzzyWuzzyWazza

Is in not yer man from that 80's tv show sledge hammer????

Eoin

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I don't think so. Surely if they're going to be issuing tickets and points, they should at least be aware of the penalties involved, especially gven that it was a Traffic Corps car that stopped me.

As they're thus supposed to be a specialised/dedicated unit for road traffic enforcement, I don't think it's too much to expect that they should be at least versed in the laws themselves?

Was he unsure about what offence you had committed, or just the penalty?

Kaiser2000 wrote:

my argument here would be that the idiots shouldn't be writing tickets in the first place if they aren't competent enough to know the full details, but anyway...

Maybe his argument would be that you shouldn't be on the road if you're not competent to obey the traffic markings.

Just seems like a little enough thing to be calling someone an idiot about.

TheNog

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Only seeing this now. Can this be verified by one of our Garda/TC posters? Will I need to contact the station in question to ensure this?

See my answer below here

TheNog wrote: »

A driver can be done for every offence committed but tbh if they are not serious offences then the offence most serious with highest fine and points should be selected and the other offences explained. Consider it an act of fairness really.

As for the no insurance will thats not a FCPS offence. You must be summonsed to court for it.

The text from the penalty point site is fairly confusing but basically it means that speeding etc can be dealt with by way of a Fixed Penalty fine but the no insurance means the person has to go to court.