The basic essentials for a novice...

...have fleece, waterproof light jacket, waterproof boots, combats, backpack, Harvey map...so far plenty enough to get me round and about Killarney National Park.

But wondering should I get more?

Gaitors - what are they really for? If I stick to paths, like the old Killarney Kenmare Road, is there a need for them? How much do they cost?

Compass - is it a necessity when one sticks to paths?

Hiking sticks/poles - the amount of people who seem to use these things, even on tarred roads. To me, it would seem unusual to have to hold the thing. Are they really of benefit?

Anyhitng else needed?

And, sounds like a bizarre question, but should combats/pants be tucked inside or outside the tops of boots? If the former, would it not just chafe the skin? But the latter means they can soak up the water?

Tells

I'd say you're on the right track there with that list you have, however, I personally always carry a group sized bivi bag and if you're starting out it might be a good idea to start using route cards.

You'll learn as you go what you need to bring and what you don't..

As for the compass, I would say go and do a mountain skills course as you could still get lost on a trail, when the clouds come down or you stay out longer than intended you might need to navigate your way out of there!

Gaitors - €15 - €45

Good luck with it..

Coach Ed

Dont bother with a compass. it usually gets in the way if you dont have much experience with it.
More importantly learn to use the map, which should always be part of your essential kit!
If you want to learn to read a map go to an orienteering club, or turn up any local training event and ask at registration for help. there are a few on most weekends around the country.
more info at orienteering.ie

Tells

Tells wrote: »

route cards.

Thanks. What are route cards though?

And what are the gaitors actually for? Just sort of an extension to the boot, to keep the calves dry and stop water running down inside the boot?

And the poles? Benefit or hindrance? Think I'd prefer my hands free.

Coach Ed

Some books will give you a description of the route of where you want to go, Joss Lynam has books covering most of the decent (if not all) walks in Ireland

Gaiters are really over kill unless your going off trail in rough stuff. Get a good pair of waterproof socks (sealskinz etc) and you will be alright.

irishlostboy

personally i find gaiters to be great kit, useful everywhere. i got a pair of breathable ones (dutch army. new condition) for 13 euro. but thats personal taste.
map and compass are vital, but not as vital as the skills to use them.

apart from that, just enjoy getting out and about. good luck.

Evil Phil

In a good days walking, which I'll assume is 5-6 hours, a pair of walking poles can save you 20 tons of impact on your knees apparently. Statistics aside they are a great saver of knees in my experience. Wait till Lidl or Aldi have them in again.

irishlostboy

Evil Phil wrote: »

In a good days walking, which I'll assume is 5-6 hours, a pair of walking poles can save you 20 tons of impact on your knees apparently. Statistics aside they are a great saver of knees in my experience. Wait till Lidl or Aldi have them in again.

oh ya, forgot about sticks. for years i didn't use them, till i started carrying larger loads and doing longer trips. then i tried them. very useful for balance and load distribution, as well as useful for making my shelter. also with a little imagination you can use two of them to create a toilet seat. :eek::eek::eek: strange but true.

fergalr

Coach Ed wrote: »

Dont bother with a compass. it usually gets in the way if you dont have much experience with it.
More importantly learn to use the map, which should always be part of your essential kit!
If you want to learn to read a map go to an orienteering club, or turn up any local training event and ask at registration for help. there are a few on most weekends around the country.
more info at orienteering.ie

Have to disagree with you on the compass there Ed.

I'd advise a walker to take a compass out with them from the start.

They don't have to do anything too sophisticated with it for it to be useful.
For example, if you know that the compass points north, which pretty much everyone knows, and if you get lost in a fog (or even blizzard these days!), it makes it possible to walk in a consistent direction (eg south to the edge of the park), rather than wandering in circles forever.
Sometime as simple as this can make a big difference.

I understand if you were teaching someone to orienteer, you might keep them away from the compass for a while, but to a new hillwalker, I'd say get both map and compass and start practicing with them right away.

OP:
What you need most of all now is a bit of training or practice. Try get out with someone more experienced, or go on a course, to teach you the navigation practice. Get yourself skilled in the basics as soon as possible, and before doing anything remotely tricky, and remember it can get cloudy at almost any time in this country.

Edit: Oh, and if you are looking to improve your navigation skills, going orienteering is a great way to practice, that's true.

Alun

Even on forest tracks a compass can be useful at times. In many cases, even on maps that show them to any degree of accuracy, you can sometimes arrive at a multiple track junction where what's on the ground doesn't quite match up to what's on the map, and a simple N-S orientation of the map can often make things much clearer.

sheesh

well if you have a map you will probably need a compass just to find north at some point esp in fog or a forest I have a whistle with mine as well.
Gators I was on the dingle way last weekend and got mud up to my knees would not have happened if i had gaitors. they really stop getting dirt/water on the lower part of your legs.

Sticks: apparently 2of them take a load off your knees (up to 30% according to the guy on the BBC's country file a few years ago) I have one it can be handy going down hill gets in the way going uphill i think.

dogmatix

Sticks are not just for knees either - they are essential kit for archnophobic hill walkers. And they are great for testing the way ahead if you are walking through very boggy areas. And I would never try to walk down from Arts Lough to the rock glen through the boulder field without a stick. And they telescope up when not in use. In short - never leave home without one.

Plus of course all the usual - compass/map, food, water, raingear, fleece, torch, swiss army knife/tool, etc, etc...

otwb

Coach Ed wrote: »

Dont bother with a compass. it usually gets in the way if you dont have much experience with it.
More importantly learn to use the map, which should always be part of your essential kit!

How do you know where North is on a map in the fog with no compass? Would deffo recommend a navigation skills course if you are worried about using map/compass/route card combination.

Walking poles are brilliant - I found that my knees stopped hurting after walks, also for balancing going over muddy patches and brilliant for taking strain going up and down hills.

Would second at least the whistle and also the bivvy bag if going away from the tracks.

I don't have gators - and just leave my normal or waterproof trousers over my socks - haven't had a wet sock experience as yet (fingers crossed)

Cabaal

otwb wrote: »

Would second at least the whistle and also the bivvy bag if going away from the tracks.

My right knee and hip would sometimes hurt after several hours of walking but using walking sticks has sorted that
Def recommend them to people

Thanks for all the info.

Where should one keep an eye out for courses on map reading, compass use etc in Cork or Kerry? Last time I did this stuff was 25 years ago in cub scouts and I've forgotten some of it! On that mountainviews site which seems particularly good, do they advertise upcoming courses?

Tells

This linky http://www.mountaineering.ie/trainingandsafety/viewdetails.asp?ID=8 will give you a list of providers in Cork and Kerry.
There are plenty to choose from..

Good luck

Coach Ed

Ok a few things people have pulled me up on which I'd like to clarify:

-Keep the map Orientated by using the details the map (thus learn what the symbols mean and represent- this take practice and patience!)

-You know what decision your going to make when you get to a junction or any decision point along a route.

-Yes you can back it up with the compass, but if you have your map orientated you shouldn't need it. Ditto for bad weather conditions.

-Relying on a compass only is also dangerous and should only be a back up, walking in a straight line in the hills can be harmful for your health!

Doing a course of some description, is the best option as most who go out and half read the short Silva 1-2-3 booklet get confused which of the 3 Norths (True, Grid & Mag) on an Ordnance survey map, (that if they even look at the legend) the compass points to. Learning to use a compass in a pressure situation is not the time to do so!

While not ordance survey specific, there are resources on Orienteering.ie in the Orienteering Education section which will help, especially the IOA Booklet listed at the end of OAA3 section.

Have fun lads and be safe!

Valmont

Deleted User wrote: »

Gaitors - what are they really for?

If you're going to be in and out of small streams gaitors are a must imo. Also if you are doing any off trail bush-whacking the insides of your trousers just above your ankles will always get ripped sooner or later but not with gaitors.

Deleted User wrote: »

Compass - is it a necessity when one sticks to paths?

Always bring a compass. You never know, just in case you do somehow get lost. It happens.

Deleted User wrote: »

Hiking sticks/poles - the amount of people who seem to use these things, even on tarred roads. To me, it would seem unusual to have to hold the thing. Are they really of benefit?

I don't see the point of these either unless you need some extra support as some people do.

BeardyGit

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for all the info.

Where should one keep an eye out for courses on map reading, compass use etc in Cork or Kerry? Last time I did this stuff was 25 years ago in cub scouts and I've forgotten some of it! On that mountainviews site which seems particularly good, do they advertise upcoming courses?

You could try Nathan Kingerlee in Outdoors Ireland. He's based down in Killorglin.

Got a standard compass, and downloaded a guide on using it. Will give it a few trial runs on the hills near my house this weekend before relying on it, or my ability.

fergalr

Deleted User wrote: »

Got a standard compass, and downloaded a guide on using it. Will give it a few trial runs on the hills near my house this weekend before relying on it, or my ability.

Word of advice on basic compass usage... I think people very over complicate compass work for beginners.
Fundamentally, the compass points north*. In a very real sense, that's all the compass does. Anything else, that involves twisting dials, taking bearings, or anything like that is just providing some clever ways to use the information the compass provides (ie, which way north is). While these clever ways can be great when you are familiar with them, when starting out they can over complicate things, and lead to errors.


Whenever you're up the hills, if you are doing compass work, twisting things round, adding or subtracting numbers, trying to sight bearings, and you find that you are a bit worried about which way you are going, or confused, not sure if you've followed the process correctly...
Then simply stop, look at which way the north needle is pointing, and line the north lines on the map up with the north needle (NB: the correct way round, don't make a 180 degree error, and face the map exactly south instead of exactly north, lining the direction of north on the map with south on the compass).

That's the most fundamental part of compass navigation. The compass points north, which enables you to orient the map to north.

If you can just remember this fundamental point, you won't walk 90 degrees the wrong direction, or mix up the mountain range to the south of you with the mountain range to the north.
Which people genuinely do when they are learning to use the compass (or even when they are experienced, but tired, and stressed, and sometimes focused on getting the minutes right, when they are 180 degrees off)



There's a certain amount of truth to what Ed is saying here, in that the compass is great, and when you are in a fog and want to walk in a straight line, it's very good to have, but remember, it's a very simple and dumb tool, and it only provides a single piece of informational input - which way north is - into the complex process of navigation.


*The compass points magnetic north, obviously, which won't always be the same as map north. But for most basic uses, it's close enough, most places in Ireland. Just check your map to make sure that there isn't a huge deviation before heading out, and you'll be grand for basic compass work.

Irish_Army01

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for all the info.

Where should one keep an eye out for courses on map reading, compass use etc in Cork or Kerry? Last time I did this stuff was 25 years ago in cub scouts and I've forgotten some of it! On that mountainviews site which seems particularly good, do they advertise upcoming courses?

Its very Important that you do bring a Compass with you when you go on the hills and a basic knowledge could save your life.

Here is a link with the basics http://www.learn-orienteering.org/old/

A route Card is basically your route on a page( Waterproofed) .It includes start time/Grid Ref/Height Climbed/Distance. If you need a Route Card Download This One . You always make two out and give one to a family member for obvious reasons.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for all the info.

alfja

Hi,
I am living in Dublin and keen to give orienteering a shot. I've spent the last year laid up with an injury so have decided to get back to sport doing something totally different. Problem is I know nothing about orienteering. I've tried to recruit a few friends to the mission but honestly that think I'm half mad. I know this might not be the right time of year but is there any club out there who wants to take on a total beginner! Or any other total beginner I could team up with.
Thanks

fergalr

alfja wrote: »

Hi,
I am living in Dublin and keen to give orienteering a shot. I've spent the last year laid up with an injury so have decided to get back to sport doing something totally different. Problem is I know nothing about orienteering. I've tried to recruit a few friends to the mission but honestly that think I'm half mad. I know this might not be the right time of year but is there any club out there who wants to take on a total beginner! Or any other total beginner I could team up with.
Thanks

First off, this is probably the best time of year to start orienteering.
The orienteering season is just kicking off.

There are a list of events on this website:
http://orienteering.ie/builder.php3?Home

Check out this page:
http://orienteering.ie/wiki/doku.php?id=ioa:faq

which has lots of details about how to get started.

There is an event on on brockagh, 31st of october, which would be a great event, outdoors and a bit wild.
If you are nervous about starting, you could go along to that event and do one of the easy courses, light orange. If you read up a little bit on how to read a map before hand, you should have no trouble with that.

There's also orienteering on in three rock wood in the dublin mountains the following week.

If you just go to a few events and do the easier courses, you'll get started.


There are also loads of clubs - some of them run beginner courses from time to time- you can find clubs on the orienteering.ie website. http://orienteering.ie/builder.php3?Clubs
If you send a club in your area an email about getting started, they should be pretty good about getting in touch, its quite a welcoming sport.

But you could totally start by just reading the FAQ above and heading along to an event with a few friends.
The easy courses are very easy to the point where young kids do them without company, and the hard courses are hard to the point where you need to be a very fit and very competent navigator to get around them - in between will be a course that suits you, so you can really just turn up and get going.

L31mr0d

First of all, always bring the 10 essentials with you.

Even if you think you won't need them, carrying them should become second nature. It's my biggest issue with trail runners where I am currently in BC. They run along trails which skirt some fairly precarious bluffs and bring nothing but a camelbak with them. Fair enough, they want to keep their weight down, but it's very easy to get lost and have to spend an unexpected night out. This season alone a handful of people have disappeared into the bush (assumed dead) and the number one reason has been they weren't prepared.

Gaiters are an essential item for me, here's why:

They are used for:

1. Gravel paths or scree/talus hill which might kick up stones into my boots
2. Creek/Stream hopping/crossing
3. Wet bush or overgrown trails
4. Boulder hopping where the ends of my trousers will be rubbing off the rocks (protect ankles, shins when wearing shorts)
5. Snow
6. Wrapping around crampons to protect backpack
7. Use as a seat when sitting on a wet surface
6. Use as a sled to protect trousers when butt skiing (if boot skiing isn't easy)

I'm sure there are many other uses also. They weigh nothing and can be used for a variety of situations.

However, as others have said, kit is the least important element you should take with you when hiking. Will, knowledge and training weigh nothing and will travel with you everywhere. A very handy book to have and read (I keep it on me when in the backcountry) is this one:

SAS Survival Guide

"Lofty outlines the principles of survival and uses the analogy of a pyramid to illustrate this - the foundation layer being the will to survive, successive layers being knowledge, training and culminating in kit as the pinnacle of the pyramid.

He sets out the questions you should seek to answer before setting off on an expedition; for example - have you packed appropriately, what are your group member abilities, have you researched the area you will be travelling to / staying in? He stresses that prior planning is vital."

fergalr

L31mr0d wrote: »

First of all, always bring the 10 essentials with you.

Even if you think you won't need them, carrying them should become second nature. It's my biggest issue with trail runners where I am currently in BC. They run along trails which skirt some fairly precarious bluffs and bring nothing but a camelbak with them. Fair enough, they want to keep their weight down, but it's very easy to get lost and have to spend an unexpected night out. This season alone a handful of people have disappeared into the bush (assumed dead) and the number one reason has been they weren't prepared.

Gaiters are an essential item for me, here's why:

They are used for:

1. Gravel paths or scree/talus hill which might kick up stones into my boots
2. Creek/Stream hopping/crossing
3. Wet bush or overgrown trails
4. Boulder hopping where the ends of my trousers will be rubbing off the rocks (protect ankles, shins when wearing shorts)
5. Snow
6. Wrapping around crampons to protect backpack
7. Use as a seat when sitting on a wet surface
6. Use as a sled to protect trousers when butt skiing (if boot skiing isn't easy)

I'm sure there are many other uses also. They weigh nothing and can be used for a variety of situations.

However, as others have said, kit is the least important element you should take with you when hiking. Will, knowledge and training weigh nothing and will travel with you everywhere. A very handy book to have and read (I keep it on me when in the backcountry) is this one:

SAS Survival Guide

"Lofty outlines the principles of survival and uses the analogy of a pyramid to illustrate this - the foundation layer being the will to survive, successive layers being knowledge, training and culminating in kit as the pinnacle of the pyramid.

He sets out the questions you should seek to answer before setting off on an expedition; for example - have you packed appropriately, what are your group member abilities, have you researched the area you will be travelling to / staying in? He stresses that prior planning is vital."

That '10 essentials' list is interesting, hadn't heard of it.

Have to say though, I'd question how relevant some of it is in a modern context.

1. Map
2. Compass (optionally supplemented with a GPS receiver)
3. Sunglasses and sunscreen
4. Extra food and water
5. Extra clothes
6. Headlamp (outdoor)/flashlight
7. First aid kit
8. Fire starter
9. Matches
10. Knife

Sunscreen? Not so essential in this climate.
And if you get caught out, you can just daub yourself in mud :-)

Firestarter/matches? - Probably not necessary for a lot of people - where people get caught out in Ireland they are unlikely to be able to start a fire (lack of fuel, wet conditions). And, in fairness, novices wouldn't know how to use them.
Same applies to 'knife' these days.

Don't get my wrong, great equipment if you know how to use it, but not what I'd put on the essentials list for a novice walking around wicklow.


Instead, I'd put 'rain gear', 'mobile phone' and 'group shelter' on there, and be a bit more specific about the clothing: (gloves, hat, waterproof socks, fabric that stays warm when wet)

L31mr0d

fergalr wrote: »

Don't get my wrong, great equipment if you know how to use it, but not what I'd put on the essentials list for a novice walking around wicklow.

Well you can't say what you will and won't need, even if you are hiking in Wicklow, it's possible to get lost and have to spend a night out in the elements. There is a popular hike where I am atm that's only a few km's long and sees hundreds of people on it daily (The Grouse Grind), but people have got lost on it and had to spend the night out there (due to getting caught in the dark under the tree canopy, fog rolling in... etc)

I've lit fires in the wettest of conditions in the alpine where there is little to burn to dry off when waiting for some bad weather to pass. It was difficult but possible because I knew which plants burnt the best (i.e. Cassiope is an alpine flower, easily recognizable where I am currently, that, due to its high resin content, will burn wet, the same with birch bark... etc)

A knife (even a small multitool or penknife) and fire starting equipment are a necessity for all wilderness conditions. I find it odd that anyone would recommend someone to not take these with them. Even if you are hiking on a well trodden trail with clear lines of sight you can't assume that visibility will not drop suddenly or that you won't sprain an ankle and end up trying to get out slowly in the dark (following a trail, even a well trodden one, becomes a lot more difficult in the dark, even with a torch/headlamp)

Like I said also, a proper kit should only supplement a good base of knowledge and training, and should not be used in place of it. It's actually scary how many people I meet on hikes now who have replaced the need to learn any orienteering skills with the purchase of an expensive GPS device.

fergalr

L31mr0d wrote: »

Well you can't say what you will and won't need, even if you are hiking in Wicklow, it's possible to get lost and have to spend a night out in the elements. There is a popular hike where I am atm that's only a few km's long and sees hundreds of people on it daily (The Grouse Grind), but people have got lost on it and had to spend the night out there (due to getting caught in the dark under the tree canopy, fog rolling in... etc)

I've lit fires in the wettest of conditions in the alpine where there is little to burn to dry off when waiting for some bad weather to pass. It was difficult but possible because I knew which plants burnt the best (i.e. Cassiope is an alpine flower, easily recognizable where I am currently, that, due to its high resin content, will burn wet, the same with birch bark... etc)

A knife (even a small multitool or penknife) and fire starting equipment are a necessity for all wilderness conditions. I find it odd that anyone would recommend someone to not take these with them.

Well - sorry if I came across wrong - I'm not recommending someone doesn't take them.

I just mean to say that on a list of 10 essentials, for a novice, in wicklow, I'd put a mobile phone, raingear, and a group shelter on it above a knife and matches.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Even if you are hiking on a well trodden trail with clear lines of sight you can't assume that visibility will not drop suddenly or that you won't sprain an ankle and end up trying to get out slowly in the dark (following a trail, even a well trodden one, becomes a lot more difficult in the dark, even with a torch/headlamp)

Absolutely, anyone can have an accident.

I reckon that most novice hikers, though, if they properly sprain an ankle in bad weather, need to get into their group shelter, stay warm, and phone for help - rather than try and start a fire.
Because, realistically, they aren't going to be able to start a fire if the weather is bad, and they are injured. They'll get exhausted and cold trying to do so.

Now, if they can - say, if they know which flowers have a high resin content and burn well :cool: then they aren't novice hikers, and they don't need a list of basic essentials, because they already know what to do!

So, raingear, phone and group shelter would be higher on my list than knife or matches. You might say 'what if the phone doesn't work' - of course, thats a fair point, but these things are always about probabilities - often it will, and save people's lives, and that makes it worth carrying.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Like I said also, a proper kit should only supplement a good base of knowledge and training, and should not be used in place of it. It's actually scary how many people I meet on hikes now who have replaced the need to learn any orienteering skills with the purchase of an expensive GPS device.

Yeah, absolutely...

Also, devices which make things safer shouldn't be treated as a license to take more risks - which is an attitude people sometimes have... "I wouldnt normally walk in these conditions, but with the GPS I'll be fine" - nooo...

walklead

Definately get a compass and learn how to use it. Imperitive before you get started.

Also, a space blanket is a good one to pack. A whistle in case you get lost. Bring your phone and make sure it is fully charged.

Mac2010

i carry AA battery charger for my phone often.havin enough credit in your phone and AA charger would be the best bet i can think of...

PS: just an instance;)