Belgian V German

Duck's hoop

I'm partial to both but wondered on opinions as to whether you peepil have a definitive opinion on which nation brews the best? I think for me it's the Belgians. I like 'em strong and Kwak, Triple Leffe, Grimbergen etc just have something the Germans don't. Am I wrong?

BeerNut

Belgium, for variety. It's very hard to get bored of Belgian beer because there are so many breweries doing all manner of different things. Even though Germany has a similar number of breweries-per-square-foot they produce a lot of very samey beers -- hundreds and hundreds of yellow lagers that taste much like the next one. You have to go to particular areas to experience local variety -- Cologne for Kölsch, Düsseldorf for Alt, Bamberg for Rauchbier -- but lots of other local styles have been killed off by megabrand consolidation or the spread of the Reinheitsgebot through the country in the 19th century.

Finding interesting beer in Germany is much harder work than in Belgium.

Duck's hoop

BeerNut wrote: »

Belgium, for variety.

My thoughts precisely, though you have obviously extensive knowledge of German beers which trumps mine, only really knowing the stuff we get over here. I would be surprised to hear that there was anywhere else with the variety of beers of the Belgians - I was over there recently and was informed that there were over 300 breweries in the Ghent region alone!
They do have the variety thing sewn up, everything from Kriek to Hoegaarden to the trappist stuff and all manner of fabulous stuff in between. Bit of a Beer Nut's paradise I reckon.

BeerNut

That, gorgeous pubs, cracking food, and effortless public transport.

I'll be making my second trip this year in about a month's time.

They're absolute rubbish at making stout though. Which is why one of their breweries has a long-standing arrangement with Guinness to have a special variety made just for them. It is, of course, far and away the best beer thing Diageo make.

the beer revolu

Belgian for me, for all the reasons mentioned above.

But there is Aventinus - as good as any dark, strong Belgian beer
and Augustiner Edelstoff - probably my favourite lager style beer.

And there's the hundreds of German beers that I've never tried!!

But my heart is with Belgian beer!
Mmmmmm Orval!!

Duck's hoop

All of the above.

kenmc

Defo Belgian for me.

oblivious

Belgians for me, but Aventinus dose punch above it weight:).


Its a little of a unfair comparison thought, the majority of German beer is a for of lager or lagered beer which are low ester beer com paired to the range of flavors the can come for Belgian ales yeast and spice additions

kenmc

oblivious wrote: »

Its a little of a unfair comparison thought, the majority of German beer is a for of lager or lagered beer which are low ester beer com paired to the range of flavors the can come for Belgian ales yeast and spice additions

And whos fault is that then? Bloody unimaginitive Germans only themselves to blame

BeerNut

oblivious wrote: »

Its a little of a unfair comparison thought, the majority of German beer is a for of lager or lagered beer which are low ester beer com paired to the range of flavors the can come for Belgian ales yeast and spice additions

There's nothing to stop the Germans from making more interesting or complex beers. It's just that, a bit like the Irish, they believe against all the evidence that their mainstream beers are world-class and that everyone thinks they're great.

oblivious

BeerNut wrote: »

There's nothing to stop the Germans from making more interesting or complex beers. It's just that, a bit like the Irish, they believe against all the evidence that their mainstream beers are world-class and that everyone thinks they're great.

I just think you are comparing apples and oranges, not that I am a particular lager fan

BeerNut

oblivious wrote: »

I just think you are comparing apples and oranges

The Belgians grow both apples and oranges, though admittedly their apples aren't up to much. The Germans have decided to confine themselves to growing apples only, believe they grow the best apples on the planet, and sneer that oranges aren't even real fruit.

stillhere08

the belgians are very passionate and knowledgeable about their beers, it 's a big part of their culture, also their chocolate. I think the Germans and French are more taken by their wines and beer does not have as a high a status as in Belgium...not all Belgian beers are good though, they have a lot of stodgy beers produced aswell

oblivious

stillhere08 wrote: »

.not all Belgian beers are good though, they have a lot of stodgy beers produced aswell

Stella, Budweiser;)

oblivious

BeerNut wrote: »

The Germans have decided to confine themselves to growing apples only,

Not quite true, you can argue they have some oranges but grow them like apples.

BeerNut wrote: »

believe they grow the best apples on the planet, and sneer that oranges aren't even real fruit.

I have come across this believe many time

BeerNut

oblivious wrote: »

Not quite true, you can argue they have some oranges but grow them like apples.

...and call them "orange-shaped applefruit".

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

The Belgians grow both apples and oranges, though admittedly their apples aren't up to much. The Germans have decided to confine themselves to growing apples only, believe they grow the best apples on the planet, and sneer that oranges aren't even real fruit.

Vedette is as good a lager as almost any German.

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

Vedette is as good a lager as almost any German.

I disagree. I think it's rather poor, and put next to, say, Schlenkerla Märzen or Keesman Herren Pils I don't think it compares.

Peadar06

Belgian beer is much nice than German beer I think, Rather go to Belgium than Germany as the Belgians are always good craic while the Germans are ............................mmmm

(You know what I mean)

Peter

oblivious

Peadar06 wrote: »

Rather go to Belgium than Germany as the Belgians are always good craic

Not unless you start speaking french in a Flemish area

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

I disagree. I think it's rather poor, and put next to, say, Schlenkerla Märzen or Keesman Herren Pils I don't think it compares.

I haven't had the pleasure of the above!

oblivious

the beer revolu wrote: »

I haven't had the pleasure of the above!

you may have seen it around, the smoked one

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

I haven't had the pleasure of the above!

Schlenkerla wouldn't be everyone's favourite, but it's a superb example of how you can make normal-strength lager without it being the same old yellow fizz.

MediaTank

BeerNut wrote: »

They're absolute rubbish at making stout though. Which is why one of their breweries has a long-standing arrangement with Guinness to have a special variety made just for them. It is, of course, far and away the best beer thing Diageo make.

I agree. It's made for James Martin and clocks in at 0.5% ABV stronger than FES. Though my (hazy) memory from way back tells me that it was even stronger back then.

Quint

I love both countries, but Belgium has to win at beers. Nothing better than sitting down to a few of these

RDM_83

Its safer to drink in Germany because your not normally in a place where you can have 10 bottles of extra strong beer and still not have tried a fraction of the available (and you have to try them)
+1 Hoegarden Forbidden fruit and I look forward to trying some of those ones above.

ps I got myself a set of Kolsch glasses in a charity shop at the weekend so I'm looking for a recommendation for some brands so I can spend some night this week drinking a lot from a tiny glass (ps in Dublin, pass Redmonds everyday)

BeerNut

RDM_83 wrote: »

you can have 10 bottles of extra strong beer and still not have tried a fraction of the available (and you have to try them)

More reason to keep going back

RDM_83 wrote: »

looking for a recommendation for some brands so I can spend some night this week drinking a lot from a tiny glass

The two brands we see most here are Gaffel and Früh, of which the latter is better, IMO.

slayerking

Definitely has to be Belgian for me.
The Belgians are the ones that really got me thinking about beer, and what it can do.
I find that the German beers can be a little samey!!
Having said that, I do love some of the beers from both Countries depending on my mood.
Its all good!!!

jrar

Yeah, Belguim shades it for me too based on both the variety of beers and I generally like their pubs better too - that said, if I was stuck with German pubs and beers for a year or two, I think I'd survive the "ordeal" !

PWEI

I lived and worked in both countries, 4 years in Germany and 1.5 in Belgium
so I'm fairly familiar with both.There's no doubt about it that Belgium has the
largest selection of beers in the world,they practically invented the stuff but
if given the choice I would pick German beer any day.Quite simply because of the purity law,German beer doesn't have any chemicals and Belgium beer does.Beer brewed according to the Purity Law in Germany should only contain the basic few ingredients so the brewing process is a lot more detailed and sensitive.Belgium beer is full of chemicals and artificial flavourings.Proof of this is the hangovers that you get from drinking some of their beers.
I remember going out for a quiet night and drinking only 3 or 4 small glasses of beer but still getting a massive headache the following day.You would never get anything like this from any of the Bavarian beers for eg.

oblivious

PWEI wrote: »

.There's no doubt about it that Belgium has the
largest selection of beers in the world

USA I am afraid

PWEI wrote: »

they practically invented the stuff but

Thats just a myth about Belgian beers, all the one we know to day are all a very recent invention:D

PWEI wrote: »

Quite simply because of the purity law,German beer doesn't have any chemicals and Belgium beer does.Beer brewed according to the Purity Law in Germany should only contain the basic few ingredients so the brewing process is a lot more detailed and sensitive.Belgium beer is full of chemicals and artificial flavourings.Proof of this is the hangovers that you get from drinking some of their beers.

lactic acid is lactic acid weather its made by lactic acid bacteria or systematized both have to be pure. Their brewing process is pity much the same as any, convert the malt to simple sugars. Some do a technique called decoction mashing but it just a slightly different why of reach the same point.

The Reinheitsgebot is a bit of a marketing ploy these days and Guinness would not qualify under it

PWEI wrote: »

I remember going out for a quiet night and drinking only 3 or 4 small glasses of beer but still getting a massive headache the following day.You would never get anything like this from any of the Bavarian beers for eg.

3 or 4 small glasses of a 10% beer is going to have a different effect to a 4-5% lager

BeerNut

PWEI wrote: »

I lived and worked in both countries, 4 years in Germany and 1.5 in Belgium so I'm fairly familiar with both.

The problem with Germany is that the beer scene tends to be incredibly localised. You don't really get know German beer without travelling the length and breadth of the place. Not that I have, or anything.

PWEI wrote: »

Quite simply because of the purity law,German beer doesn't have any chemicals and Belgium beer does.Beer brewed according to the Purity Law in Germany should only contain the basic few ingredients so the brewing process is a lot more detailed and sensitive.Belgium beer is full of chemicals and artificial flavourings.

This is one of those myths the Germans like to put about. For one thing, the 'gebot isn't actually law, and there are some German brewers, thankfully, who will openly put other things in their beer. It also allows for hop extract which lots of German brewers use and isn't exactly all-natural.

I'm not sure what chemicals you're thinking of in relation to Belgian beer, but most good beer anywhere will list its ingredients on the label. With the Belgians the only really common adjunct is candi sugar, and that's generally to bump up the alcohol in the stronger beers.

PWEI wrote: »

You would never get anything like this from any of the Bavarian beers for eg.

Well I wouldn't, 'cos I find hangovers are solely down to how much alcohol I've ingested rather than the provenance or recipe of the beer, but some of the Paulaner non-fan club here might disagree with you.

Edit: ooops, both barrels from the ICB heavies. Sorry PWEI.

the beer revolu

PWEI wrote: »

I lived and worked in both countries, 4 years in Germany and 1.5 in Belgium
so I'm fairly familiar with both.There's no doubt about it that Belgium has the
largest selection of beers in the world,they practically invented the stuff but
if given the choice I would pick German beer any day.Quite simply because of the purity law,German beer doesn't have any chemicals and Belgium beer does.Beer brewed according to the Purity Law in Germany should only contain the basic few ingredients so the brewing process is a lot more detailed and sensitive.Belgium beer is full of chemicals and artificial flavourings.Proof of this is the hangovers that you get from drinking some of their beers.
I remember going out for a quiet night and drinking only 3 or 4 small glasses of beer but still getting a massive headache the following day.You would never get anything like this from any of the Bavarian beers for eg.

Your beloved Reinheitsgebot "law" restricts the ingredients that go into a beer but makes no stipulation about the quality of the ingredients.
For example the barley could be really cheap additive rich 'as far as you can get from organic' but can still be used.
Same for hops and even water.
It also brutally curbs the variety of beer in Germany.
Good beer is good beer - no matter where it comes from and despite the so called purity law, there's plenty of extremely good and extremely bad German beer.

Ronan|Raven

BeerNut wrote: »

More reason to keep going back

The two brands we see most here are Gaffel and Früh, of which the latter is better, IMO.

We can get früh kölsch in Ireland? Please tell me where!

I love going back to the relations in Köln and making a pig of myself on Kölsch.

mayordenis

I've seen kölsch in plenty of places but will keep an eye out for it,
Again after several trips to Germany and Belgium in the Last few years, I ended up in Amsterdam at the weekend and there really are some phenomenal Dutch Beers, Brouwerij T'ij in particular having a host of excellent Brews.
But again I found myself all over any belgian beers that were on offer alot.
I was drinking one in particular that was the highlight of the lot, Adrian Brouwer Dark Gold. I cannot for the life of me locate it now.

edit:
maybe if I'd learn to spell things would improve a bit
http://www.belgianfamilybrewers.be/site/brewerdetail.php?l=en&br=roman
This was on tap I was drinking not bottled btw and it was drinkable to say the very least.

oblivious

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

We can get früh kölsch in Ireland? Please tell me where!

I love going back to the relations in Köln and making a pig of myself on Kölsch.

Redmonds of Ranelagh is know for certain, but I find that the bottle kölsch can be a little to carbonated

BeerNut

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

We can get früh kölsch in Ireland? Please tell me where!

Most of the specialist beer shops do it, and the Bull & Castle and Porterhouse both stock it as a regular.

Ronan|Raven

Thankyou for the replies. Im up in Dublin next week for a few days but will get a few bottles. Not as good as freshly pulled but it will do. Just a shame one b ottle will cost almost as much as a case over there