Tokyo Marui m4 sopmod ebb?

General Grobel

Tokyo Marui m4 sopmod, yay or nay? I know the whole blow back things is a gimmick but I personally think it adds to the experience. I am really tempted to go and buy one right now but I came across a video that concerns me
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=6X0u5nwh8wg, it seems that it has a lot of misfires and you can hear the hicap unwind at some stage, yet in other vids it fires flawlessly, is it because of the hicap or what?

what I'm basically asking is if the build quality is compromised by the recoil engine?

Rascal77

Yeah these m4's look sweet,the only things kinda putting me off are the mags and the battery.It's funny how airsofters look for recoil in their guns and the real gun manufacturers try to remove it:)

kdouglas

Not something I would ever use with a high cap mag to be honest, but it looks to be reasonably good and I like the changeable 30/82rnd midcap mags.

TheDoc

Ill wait for hand son.

I'm not splashing out 300-400 euro for something if it hasnt got decent blowback. And TM are whores for making their own niche mags charging a fortune.

Granted the locking bolt catch is gucci when you run outa ammo, but i dont think it warrants its price tag unless it pisses excellence.

Will watch with interest

NakedDex

I'm going to get one in a few months, it's on my list. I was going to get a WA/WE M4 gbb but the performance of both has left me wanting an alternative. Having fired their ebb AK74MN, I reckon this should be a belter. The only qualm I'd have is the battery packs. I don't like that crane stock, so it annoys me that I need one to house their specific pack. I'm sure I can find a way around that though.

Alzir

General Grobel wrote: »

Tokyo Marui m4 sopmod, yay or nay? I know the whole blow back things is a gimmick but I personally think it adds to the experience. I am really tempted to go and buy one right now but I came across a video that concerns me
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=6X0u5nwh8wg, it seems that it has a lot of misfires and you can hear the hicap unwind at some stage, yet in other vids it fires flawlessly, is it because of the hicap or what?

what I'm basically asking is if the build quality is compromised by the recoil engine?

If you want realism man you got a get yourself a GBB M4. I just picked up a WE one in the adverts and it absolutly pisses all over those EBB crap.
Real cap mags, real recoil and sounds the biz!

NakedDex

Have you tried the TM ebb rifles? It's a fairly big jump to say they're crap if you haven't?

I've used the WA M4 gbb and, while it's good, it's just not practical for skirmishing in Ireland. Cool down is far too much of a problem, and the mags are 100 a pop. I know the WE has cheaper mags, but cool down is still there and it's still weather reliant to have decent performance. The TM one is a nice compromise between realism and reliability.

Frank the Manc

having used both id definitely agree with Alzir, ebb is really pathetic compared to GBB, well from my experience of the WE anyways.
cooldown is not a major factor but i havnt tried it out in the snow.

The WE is almost the same as firing a 5.56/.223, the ebbs that iv tried werent even close to a .22

Alzir

Ive used the TM AK74 and I think its dirt. Cooldown aint a prob with the WE cos there 30 rd mags unlike the WA 50 rd you get more gas to compensate for the presssure reduction due to temp decline as the mag gets to the last few rds. The WA M4 has a few more flaws compared to the WE.
You should try the WE. Once you do all AEGs will seem Like AEPs!

NakedDex

I have tried one. It is fun, I'll give you that. I prefer the reliability of an AEG though. Granted the kick on the EBB isn't as strong, but it's pretty decent given it's a first generation blowback. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper, gbb M4/AK74 to purchase and run and can still be used in low temperatures without any flaw.
Also, I'd strongly disagree with calling it, or any TM, a "piece of dirt". Ok, you may not like it, but it's a solid performer and it's built really well.

It's horses for courses, I'm happy enough with an AEG but I wouldn't say no to an EBB as good as the TM M4 seems to be. I'd like a GBB M4 but I'd never skirmish it, I'd just use it for prop work.

General Grobel

Yeah the cost of gas and WE reputation put me off the m4 gbb. Did anyone watch the video in the link? it seems to misfire a lot, I wonder if TM reliability and durability were compromised?

NakedDex

I'm holding final judgement until I see/fire one personally, but if it's anything like the AK74 they do, it should be very reliable.

Frank the Manc

see my sig re: my opinion on all dirty WE's, i was completely dis-appointed when i saw who was bringing one out after WA, however the M4 is not WE manufactured, its simply a rebrand and so far so good.

if you get a propane adapter, the big cans of gas are only a tenner, much better value than the green gas.

id say go for the WE M4, they're near enough the same price and the only reason that AEGs can be more relaible is that their moving parts are under less stress, that will change with simulated blowback.

next gen GBB rifles will wipe the floor completely with AEG's, in 5 years time AEG's will be the new "classics"

General Grobel

If we weren't in Ireland climate I would have one already but in Ireland its just not practical. With 30rnd mags you'll need at least 8 to be able to skirmish and with our weather you wont be able to fire it reliably. The reason I was looking at TMs EBBs is that its a reliable(hopefully) gun with blow back in addition. The only potential problem I can see is that the battery capacity is limited, and the fps.

Frank the Manc

General Grobel wrote: »

If we weren't in Ireland climate I would have one already but in Ireland its just not practical. With 30rnd mags you'll need at least 8 to be able to skirmish and with our weather you wont be able to fire it reliably. The reason I was looking at TMs EBBs is that its a reliable(hopefully) gun with blow back in addition. The only potential problem I can see is that the battery capacity is limited, and the fps.

mags are about $40 each so it wouldt be too cost prohibitive.
ive just come in from a test fire of the gun there now, we've had snow all day & theres 2 inches on the ground and she dumped a full mag no bothers & the guts of a second on in semi with the one fill, and the mag was cold to start with not left on a rad or anything.

but if its electric your hearts set on, then go for it, just dont be expecting miracles.

Puding

at lot of this comes down to personal preference a bit like the old ak v m16 debate

i've used both platforms and own a we m4a1 ghk aks74n and a ghk ak74 i get them because there fun but they are not practical

ive just come in from a test fire of the gun there now, we've had snow all day & theres 2 inches on the ground and she dumped a full mag no bothers & the guts of a second on in semi with the one fill, and the mag was cold to start with not left on a rad or anything.

please please tell me your secret because non of my gbb give that performance. in better conditions than we have know i've never been able fill a mag up at ambient temp from a green gas/propane bottle at ambient temp and get solid reliable performance on any platform,

let allown the issues of wildly fluctuating fps output

Frank the Manc

yeah you'll always get the fan-boys for either side defending their chosen gun to the hilt, regardless of other people preferences.

iv no secret at all, other than replacing the o-rings and adding a shim to the top vent, all my GBBs would give that sort of performance bar my maruzen skorpion which on a normal day would give you a full mag full auto, but on cold days can slow down at the end, it has a relatively small mag & very high ROF so i wouldnt expect it to be a strong performer in poor conditions.
Every Glock 18c, Mac11, MP5 & pistol i own will do a full mag no bothers(except a KJW 1911 wont do all 24 rounds rapid fire, again a small mag)

as for the WE, i havnt had it long so havnt done a thing to it, the fact it doesnt leak & has a failry slow ROF & low mag capacity is what i put it down to, that said it does have a heavy bolt to push backards & forwards.

do you really not get a full mag from the WE M4 in full auto on cold day like today?

kdouglas

Puding wrote: »

please please tell me your secret because non of my gbb give that performance. in better conditions than we have know i've never been able fill a mag up at ambient temp from a green gas/propane bottle at ambient temp and get solid reliable performance on any platform,

let allown the issues of wildly fluctuating fps output

indeed, there's a big difference between being able to empty an entire mag and being able to actually use those shots effectively

Frank the Manc

kdouglas wrote: »

indeed, there's a big difference between being able to empty an entire mag and being able to actually use those shots effectively

i know that alright, i was just using the mag dump to effectively demonstrate the good gas effeciency of the gun, abviously you will never need to but it shows it can be done.

Alzir

NakedDex wrote: »

I have tried one. It is fun, I'll give you that. I prefer the reliability of an AEG though. Granted the kick on the EBB isn't as strong, but it's pretty decent given it's a first generation blowback. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper, gbb M4/AK74 to purchase and run and can still be used in low temperatures without any flaw.
Also, I'd strongly disagree with calling it, or any TM, a "piece of dirt". Ok, you may not like it, but it's a solid performer and it's built really well.

It's horses for courses, I'm happy enough with an AEG but I wouldn't say no to an EBB as good as the TM M4 seems to be. I'd like a GBB M4 but I'd never skirmish it, I'd just use it for prop work.

I meant ALL EBBs are dirt compared to GBB if its proper blow back your after.
Hell of a lot cheaper??? How much are the TM EBBs? The WE M4 can be had for E375 new from europe.

NakedDex

Well, compare them then.
TM M4 set up:
Rifle - €375
Magazines to cover 300 rounds - €230/€92/€34 (10 set at real cap, 4 set at low cap, 1 high cap)
Battery - €40
Total cost - €645/€507/€449

WE M4 set up:
Rifle - €375
Magazines - €450 (10 fixed at real cap)
Gas - € ∞
Total cost - €825 + perpetual cost of gas (the WA does about 50 fills per can of green, and there's a bigger tank in the WE mags pushing less rounds doing 1.5 mags per fill. Lets call it 50 fills at 1.5mags = €10 per 1500 rounds fired)

So yeah, the TM is cheaper and more reliable prospect. I, myself, have every intention of getting a WE M4 for messing with, but I'll skirmish the TM.

Oh and EBB's aren't dirt. Dirt is a term reserved for items like exploding KWA P99's, King Arms leaky grenades and Galaxy MP7's with self destructing gearboxes. There may not be much of a kick from an EBB and they may not sound or look as impressive, but they perform better in every respect, and most people, no matter how Gucci, would still rather have a rifle that shoots farther and straighter than a rifle that shoots shorter and less accurately but kicks. GBB rifles still have a long way to go and a lot to prove to knock AEG's from their lofty dominance in a country who's weather changes as violently as it does.

Harakka

That price for the TM seems really cheap given that its around $500 from most HK retailers. Compare that to the 360 dollars for the WE M4. That would indicate a european price of 450 euro plus - havent seen either by any european retailer yet so could be wrong. Yes the mags are cheaper, but at the end of the day the TM is still an aeg. The WE offers something different in terms of function and blowback. Still, it all comes down to personal preference at the end of the day. Neither offers a definitive solution!

Beast ASI

Harakka wrote: »

he WE offers something different in terms of function and blowback.

Like what.....? They both offer the exact same features, apart from one being Electric and the other being Gas obviously.

As soon as better mags are released I'll be getting a G&P (WA).

Harakka

Beast ASI wrote: »

Like what.....? They both offer the exact same features, apart from one being Electric and the other being Gas obviously.

Well, fairly similar features. They both have a working bolt catch where the WE also has a working charging handle and forward assist, They recoil is also much greater on the WE (and WA) than the TM according to any reviews I've read. But yes, beside that they're basically quite similar beside the obvious differences of being gas and electric - and price of course. Btw, apparently theres a 3rd party mag that works in both the WE/WA on the way.

Beast ASI

Yep, PGC are making it - Only 50rds though. Hoping for something a bit bigger soon.

Alzir

NakedDex wrote: »

Well, compare them then.
TM M4 set up:
Rifle - €375
Magazines to cover 300 rounds - €230/€92/€34 (10 set at real cap, 4 set at low cap, 1 high cap)
Battery - €40
Total cost - €645/€507/€449

You made some mistakes:
TM M4 set up:
Rifle - €430
Magazines to cover 10 x 30rd - €230
Battery - €42 (TM only)
Charger - €30 (TM only. 110VAC only available at the mo`)
Total cost - €732 plus shipping and Tax at 21-25% cos this isnt available in the EU will bring the total up and over €900.
Plus if you havent got 110vac in your home you will need a transformer at €80+.
Oh and dont forget the perpetual cost of electricity. (The most expensive in Europe mind you!)

NakedDex wrote: »

WE M4 set up:
Rifle - €375
Magazines - €450 (10 fixed at real cap)
Gas - € ∞
Total cost - €825 + perpetual cost of gas (the WA does about 50 fills per can of green, and there's a bigger tank in the WE mags pushing less rounds doing 1.5 mags per fill. Lets call it 50 fills at 1.5mags = €10 per 1500 rounds fired)

Most people use propane at €10.50 for 400grms which will give twice as much as green.

NakedDex wrote: »

So yeah, the TM is cheaper and more reliable prospect.

Ive read reports that this is known to jam and is quite prone to unit failure.

NakedDex wrote: »

I, myself, have every intention of getting a WE M4 for messing with, but I'll skirmish the TM.

Oh and EBB's aren't dirt. Dirt is a term reserved for items like exploding KWA P99's, King Arms leaky grenades and Galaxy MP7's with self destructing gearboxes. There may not be much of a kick from an EBB and they may not sound or look as impressive, but they perform better in every respect, and most people, no matter how Gucci, would still rather have a rifle that shoots farther and straighter than a rifle that shoots shorter and less accurately but kicks. GBB rifles still have a long way to go and a lot to prove to knock AEG's from their lofty dominance in a country who's weather changes as violently as it does.

Im comparing a GBB to an EBB not an AEG. My WE M4 will shoot as straight and as far as all my AEGs so I dont know where you got that idea from.

NakedDex

Alzir wrote: »

You made some mistakes:
TM M4 set up:
Rifle - €430
Magazines to cover 10 x 30rd - €230
Battery - €42 (TM only)
Charger - €30 (TM only. 110VAC only available at the mo`)
Total cost - €732 plus shipping and Tax at 21-25% cos this isnt available in the EU will bring the total up and over €900.
Plus if you havent got 110vac in your home you will need a transformer at €80+.
Oh and dont forget the perpetual cost of electricity. (The most expensive in Europe mind you!)

That was my mistake, I did actually work out the shipping and tax but forgot to include it. I'm not sure where you're getting 80 smackers for a transformer though, it's only for a charger. I could pick up 8 of them for that price. I also don't know where you got those prices, they seem woefully high.

Alzir wrote: »

Most people use propane at €10.50 for 400grms which will give twice as much as green.

I honestly don't know anyone who uses propane. I know a lot of people who tried it and went back to green, but noone still using it. Sure it's a tad more expensive, but it also doesn't reek like cats urine.

Alzir wrote: »

Ive read reports that this is known to jam and is quite prone to unit failure.

I've read reports to the contrary, but then again, this rifle hasn't even been released yet so it's all speculation and conjecture until there's a mass production model we can all test.

Alzir wrote: »

Im comparing a GBB to an EBB not an AEG. My WE M4 will shoot as straight and as far as all my AEGs so I dont know where you got that idea from.

An EBB is just an AEG with an extra mechanism. I got that idea about GBB's being less effective in our climate than electric rifles from experience. I've fired plenty and, frankly, I love them. They're undoubtedly more fun than AEG's, but I've yet to see one out-shoot it's electric counterpart in range, accuracy, reliability or constancy.

In any sense, it's a point of preference. GBB's are perfect for my prop equipment, shell ejecting GBB is the most perfect I could ask for, but for skirmishing gear I'll stick with electric.

Puding

An EBB is just an AEG with an extra mechanism. I got that idea about GBB's being less effective in our climate than electric rifles from experience. I've fired plenty and, frankly, I love them. They're undoubtedly more fun than AEG's, but I've yet to see one out-shoot it's electric counterpart in range, accuracy, reliability or constancy.

In any sense, it's a point of preference. GBB's are perfect for my prop equipment, shell ejecting GBB is the most perfect I could ask for, but for skirmishing gear I'll stick with electric.

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