English Literature and Psychology

waheyyy

Hi there, I'm a 5th year student at the moment, and basically I'm having some trouble trying to decide a course to pursue for college. For the past few years I had always planned on studying med if I could manage the points, etc. However, this year, I have taken all the sciences in school (& applied maths) and at times I've found it overwhelming to say the least. My interest in science has waned and conversely I have really taken to english, to the point that it is now the only subject I truly enjoy studying in school. I have always liked english, and was a consistant A student I guess, but i had never really thought about pursuing it in 3rd level. So now that I am I've been doing some research and have come to the conclusion that I might enjoy English Lit. and Psyc. (TSM) in trinity. Psych. for the fact that it is related to sciences, in a way.. so in a way I wouldn't be entirely leaving behind my former darling... Also when I wanted to do med I had always considered psychiatry in the long run as a possible speciality I would be interested in... So to cut this long story short, I'm just wondering if anyone here has any info on the psyc./english literature courses, as part of the tsm system or as stand-alone courses..course content, workload, job prospects etcetcect apologies for my rant and all help is greatly appreciated in advance! :]

Jonathan

Have you considered engineering?

You might enjoy that if you dislike certain aspects of the sciences.

waheyyy

physics is my leat favourite of the sciences so i really don't think i'd enjoy engineering.. i prefer the human aspect of the sciences like bio.

t0mm

Being interested in English doesn't necessarily mean you stick to English in third level. I enjoyed English in school and now I'm doing history, where a lot of the same principles and skills required for English are needed for essays, and in a way the courses are very similar. In fact being good at English will help you in vast majority of Arts courses, as long as you're good at looking at sources, forming your own opinions around the facts and then writing them down in a coherant manner.

gaybitch

If you're unsure what to do in college, and you're only in fifth year, don't bother committing yourself wholeheartedly to one course just yet. It's only Feb - keep the schoolwork going and see where it takes you, interest-wise.

I study English in TCD, and I've been to a few Psychology lectures with friends. The only real sciencey bit involved, afaik, is statistics and some study of the brain and brainstem. The rest is report-writing, labs and general reading. It may not be as science-oriented as you think.

Just decide to study whatever truly interests in you. If you enjoy reading and writing, then study English. It won't be exactly the same as school - but if you truly love reading English literature, it's the course for you.


EDIT: Sorry, didn't read the end of your post there. I have experience of English as TSM and SH, due to a transfer. Workload is basically six lectures a week and six tutorials based around books covered in that week's lecture. TSM has three lectures and three tutorials, and doesn't cover everything SH does. Modules looked at include Literature and Sexuality, Romanticism and Revolution, Theatre, Critical and Cultural Theory etc, and then moving into second year you could study things such as Pop Lit, Victorianism etc. Old English is also covered. As for job prospects, you're basically looking at a Masters or a H.Dip.

Liquorice

I'm SF English/Psych TSM, so hopefully I can help you a little bit.

In freshman English you'll probably have 3 modules per term (or semester now, I guess) with one lecture and one tutorial per module per week. I think the sophister (3rd/4th year) courses are based more around seminars than lectures and tutorials. The Freshman workload isn't too bad, there are only four essays to submit all year, but there is a lot of background reading and a high standard expected of you. You're also supposed to give presentations at tutorials, typically just one per module, but you're not marked on these and the groups are very small - typically about eight people - so there isn't that much pressure. English at Trinity is quite different from English at school, and quite a bit more demanding, as you'd expect, but if you're an A student in English at school you should have no problem stepping up your game.

Freshman psychology isn't as nicely and evenly plotted out as English. Sometimes, you might only have two hours of it per week, and sometimes it could go up to ten. Sometimes you'll only have one or two pieces of coursework in a term, sometimes you'll have five or six. This is because the practicals and stats course only runs for half of the year, and most of your coursework will be based on what you cover in the labs etc. that are part of it. Some people in my psychology class, especially TSMs, are really uncomfortable with the lack of contact hours, and it can be a bit ridiculous sometimes, but if you're the sort of person who can self-motivate you should be grand. I find that the lecturers are generally approachable, if quite busy.

You said in your post that you'd like to take psychology because it seems quite scientific, and that's the attitude I went into the course with, but don't expect too much. You will take courses based around neuroscience and you will learn about experimental design, philosophy of science etc. but a lot of it is social science-esque which isn't quite as.. hardcore as natural science. That doesn't mean you should disregard or disparage the barely-tentatively-only-kinda scientific parts of psychology, or forbid yourself from enjoying them. I think because psychology gets a lot of stick for being 'pseudo-science' people feel nervous or guilty about liking the more speculative aspects but there's absolutely nothing wrong with jumping in and enjoying the course as a whole. My long-winded-ish point here is not to go into psychology thinking it's all going to be highly scientific or you might be a little bit disappointed.

And seconded on the master/H.Dip/phD for job prospects if you want to go into either English or psychology specifically, although the English degree from Trinity is well-known and well-respected, and having a psychology degree on your CV is also supposedly a 'good thing'.

Good luck with your decision! Don't put yourself under too much pressure, you've got ages yet to decide.

waheyyy

Thanks for the responses, especially you liquorice!

Yeah i really enjoy studying english, especially poetry... Studying Pat. Kavanagh and T.S. Eliot this year has really rekindled my love for the language.

Liquroice, do you plan on majoring in Psych or English? And also, would the TSM degree hinder my chances of progressing on to a career in psychology? I presume it would be easier to get on a masters program with the full degree? Sorry if I'm misinformed here I don't really have much insight into what conditions are taken into consideration when applying for masters etc

Liquorice

waheyyy wrote: »

Liquroice, do you plan on majoring in Psych or English? And also, would the TSM degree hinder my chances of progressing on to a career in psychology? I presume it would be easier to get on a masters program with the full degree? Sorry if I'm misinformed here I don't really have much insight into what conditions are taken into consideration when applying for masters etc

At the moment I'd go for psych out of personal preference and what I want to do when I'm a proper grown-up. Also, majoring in psych gets you accredited by the Psychological Society of Ireland whereas minoring doesn't. Like yourself, I was worried about limiting myself by taking a TSM instead of a SH around CAO time back in the day, but I have never been told that TSM hinders your chance of getting into a masters course or pursuing a career in psych once your results (in both subjects) show that you're good and you're committed. I don't think that the PSI would accredit psych majors unless they were more or less as fit for further training as psych graduates who took it as a single honour. I can't speak definitively on the matter unfortunately, I guess directors of different courses will have different ideas about 'totally immersed' SHs vs 'fully-rounded' TSMs, but once you major in psych you theoretically shouldn't be at a disadvantage.

You might want to ask psych graduates about this though, and get back to me if the news is bad and my dreams are totally crushed!

DaisyJean

Liquorice wrote: »

I'm SF English/Psych TSM, so hopefully I can help you a little bit.

Hey, I'm sorry to bother you but I really hope you can help me- I'm desperate!

I did my Leaving Cert last year and got 590 points and I have applied to study English (SH) next year in Trinity.

However, I'm also fascinated by psychology and would love to study it with English Lit (TSM) but I am extremely worried about the workload, as a lot of people have advised against taking on two such heavy courses.

I'm quite academic and have always had a very high competency at English, but I'm not the fastest reader in the world- I like to take my time and thoroughly understand something and I'm afraid I won't be able to keep up with the fast pace- especially if I take psychology.

Also, the element of psychology I am fascinated by is the social science-y part of it- understanding human behaviour and all of that- but on the course description it said you need to have a high ability with numeracy and said a lot about labs and stuff which terrifies me because, although I adored Biology in school and got an A1, I'm not a sciencey person at all and maths was by far my weakest subject.

I would be so so grateful if you could offer me any advise at all. The first course i tried was totally wrong for me and I am terrified of making the wrong decision this time round. Thanks so much.

Daisy

Liquorice

Hi Daisy, you have a lot of queries so I'll go through them one by one!

As regards workload, once you get through Michaelmas of first year the coursework peters off a little bit as you won't have many more psychology assignments for the rest of the year with TSM. It picks up again in Hilary of second year but by that time you're not worried about settling into college and you're better able to deal with having a few assignments on the go at once.

I don't know how the myth about them being 'heavy' courses came about, psychology may come close to rivalling law and medicine points-wise but because it's not a professional degree like the other two, the workload is malleable. You might not have assignments due every week (in fact there's only four all year in TSM English excluding presentations, which you're not marked on). If you want good marks, a thorough understanding of the subject and a shot at pursuing those subjects at a higher level, you can work hard. If you have other concerns and just want a degree, you don't have to put in so much effort. Take the English assigned reading for example - there might be fifteen texts on the course, but you will have tutorials only on nine, so while you can read all fifteen, you only have to read those nine, and even so not everyone does. While you may need to get used to reading quickly when you have three texts due in the same week, there will be reading weeks to catch up, and slow, close reading will benefit you in exams. In psychology, lecturers assign a textbook, some secondary stuff and a number of research papers but you only have to read as much as pertains to your assignments and the topics you've chosen to study for the exams.

The numeracy that's required of you is pretty basic. It's statistics, so basic probability is all you need. Lecturers might mention the theory behind certain methods and statistical tests, but advanced mathematics it is not. A computer program processes all results, so all you need to be able to do is understand what different statistical tests do, know which one to use and be able to find meaning in your results.

The labs aren't all that scary either, they're not labs in the sense of dissection or chemical reactions or anything like that because we're interested in behaviour. We replicated an iconic social psychology experiment in February, in fact. If you want an idea of how labs and experiments apply to psychology, there are a number of important studies you might like to look up - the Stanford Prison Experiment, Asch's conformity studies, Latane and Darley's work on the bystander effect and Milgram's obedience studies all fall within the scope of social psychology, and a bit of Skinner and the Little Albert case are both fun. Because of recent developments in the field, you will take a course in neuroscience for which LC chemistry, biology and physics are each pretty handy but not necessary (I didn't do biology & I still liked it). However, after this one course in the freshman years, all later references to neuroanatomy, neurotransmission etc. are applied and hence less hard science-y and more enjoyable for someone who likes social science.

I hope that helped, and good luck with your final choice for next year!

DaisyJean

Wow, thank you so much. I seriously appreciate all your advice- I was really in the dark and you've helped beyond measure!

I think after what you've said I will apply to do the course. I'm willing to work extremely hard, so hopefully that will compensate for any shortcomings I have with numbers and the hard sciences, and it seems like the workload is do-able with some commitment. Are you glad you chose to do it?

You know how you mentioned there are about nine English Lit texts around which your tutorials and assignments are based? I was wondering if you can rememer any of the titles of the main ones because I'd love to get a head start on a few this summer to take the pressure off next year- if not, it's fine- you've been more that helpful already!

Thanks so much again, I hope the exams are going well for you!

Daisy x

Liquorice

DaisyJean wrote: »

You know how you mentioned there are about nine English Lit texts around which your tutorials and assignments are based? I was wondering if you can rememer any of the titles of the main ones because I'd love to get a head start on a few this summer to take the pressure off next year- if not, it's fine- you've been more that helpful already!

No problem, I'll send you a private message with a list of books now

Sir Ophiuchus

Liquorice wrote: »

Take the English assigned reading for example - there might be fifteen texts on the course, but you will have tutorials only on nine, so while you can read all fifteen, you only have to read those nine, and even so not everyone does. While you may need to get used to reading quickly when you have three texts due in the same week, there will be reading weeks to catch up, and slow, close reading will benefit you in exams.

Liquorice, in her inimitable fashion, has covered more than I ever could, so I won't attempt to supplant her. Instead I'd just like to add that the English course rewards reading deeply, as opposed to widely. It's definitely an advantage to read widely, but it's far better to know three texts on your "Literature and Sexuality" course inside out than to only have a passing familiarity with the other. Similarly, studying a text you're writing an essay on in great detail, and doing lots of secondary reading and research around it, pays big dividends in terms of essay marks, over and above any reward for simple ticking off the set books.

This seems to be a misapprehension about English literature - what really matters is your ability to engage with a text and to do the necessary research and analysis. Reading a lot is far less relevant, it's much more common (and beneficial) to simply focus on texts you like and understand well.

Also, best of luck!

DaisyJean

That's really reassuring- thank you so much. I'm passionate about literature and i was terrified that would be dulled by the anxiety of attempting to cover an impossible number of texts in a short time- Im really glad it's more about in-depth understanding, because I think it's only when you really get to know a book that you can come to love it and feel comfortable analysing it.

I'm so grateful to both of you for how helpful you've been. I didn't know anyone studying either course in Trinity, and you've really helped me make my decision- and get excited about it!

If i could send thank you cards over the internet, I would!

Daisy x

MedJelly

Instead I'd just like to add that the English course rewards reading deeply, as opposed to widely. It's definitely an advantage to read widely, but it's far better to know three texts on your "Literature and Sexuality" course inside out than to only have a passing familiarity with the other. Similarly, studying a text you're writing an essay on in great detail, and doing lots of secondary reading and research around it, pays big dividends in terms of essay marks, over and above any reward for simple ticking off the set books.

I'm not sure if I agree with this. I study English and I find that this is a valid approach but neither the only, nor the most recommended, one. It works fine for questions and essays which deal with one text but these sorts of questions aren't the most common. Also, being able to draw on a wide range of texts to be able to show similarities, differences etc. between the text at hand and others from the same era or genre etc. is greatly rewarded by examiners/markers. Or even better, being able to use your texts to infer ideologies of particular times, peoples is seen as a good achievement. This can only be done in a credible way by drawing on your knowledge of a few texts.

Also, there are some course, the best example that comes to mind is probably the Hero, where knowing one or two texts really well is next to useless as the whole course is about the progression of heroism. Exam papers increasingly are trying to get students to write about the course in general rather than focusing on one specific text by making students answer on at least two texts from your course, see the Victorianism papers.

This isn't a bad or a particularly hard thing. You should have no problem reading about 3 or 4 texts for one term courses and 6 or 7 for year courses as we have only about 3 or 6 hours of lectures anyway and I'd recommend to start reading this way because after a while you end up being able to read a wide range of texts and covering them in detail. Also, you get a better idea about the context in which the texts are situated and, after all, as undergraduates, we're studying Victorianism, Postcolonialism, America lit, etc. not courses on specific books.

Sir Ophiuchus

I don't actually disagree with anything you said there - those are about the numbers I'd recommend too. L&S is a one-term course, and I suggested three texts. I agree that comparing and contrasting texts is essential, and across courses as well as within them, but I don't find that incompatible with narrowing one's focus slightly. The essay comment was more in relation to JF essays that do tend to focus heavily on one text or author.

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to your post, because you say you disagree with me, but our opinions don't conflict. Maybe we had a misunderstanding of one another's positions somewhere along the line.

Also, we're in the same class. Do I know you in person?

MedJelly

Not sure if I know anyone by the name Sir Ophiucus in the English depatrment tbh!

Sir Ophiuchus

*rolls eyes*

Stephen Kenneally, SF TSM English Literature & Psychology.

gaybitch

MedJelly wrote: »

Also, there are some course, the best example that comes to mind is probably the Hero, where knowing one or two texts really well is next to useless as the whole course is about the progression of heroism.

Not that it really matters to the topic of this thread, but I wouldn't agree with you on that point. Certainly, it would beneficial in a sense to read every single text you have a tutorial in, or even every single text you'll have a lecture in during a module, but to suggest it's anywhere near necessary/essential for the exam is not true, in my opinion.

There might be one question on the Hero exam concerning the progression of heroism, but seven others asking about specific texts (or themes pertaining to them) that can be chosen instead - and that way, you only do need to read about three books in depth per course. If that.