UCAS anyone?

rhapsody! · 31-01-2009 5:26pm #1

Has anyone applied through UCAS for college in England?
The system is much more fair and way cheaper aswell.

:P

rhapsody! · 31-01-2009 5:43pm

You basically end up paying that here anyway lol.

31-01-2009 5:47pm

rhapsody! wrote: »

You basically end up paying that here anyway lol.

How?

31-01-2009 5:54pm

rhapsody! wrote: »

The system is much more fair and way cheaper aswell.:P

Both of your points are wrong: The English system isn't cheaper (to the Irish student); and, the CAO system is by far the fairer of the two.

Brooke01 · 31-01-2009 5:57pm

I applied and i was waiting 4 weeks for an OFFER. The irish governement will bring in university fee again !!! the were considering it last year

rhapsody! · 31-01-2009 6:32pm

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Both of your points are wrong: The English system isn't cheaper (to the Irish student); and, the CAO system is by far the fairer of the two.

I disagree.
The english system is much fairier by a long shot and offers the student much more choice. The CAO has far too many restrictions.

rizzla · 31-01-2009 6:36pm

I went to Napier University. My fee's where paid by SAAS and I also recieved a maintenance grant. I got a part time job too so had quite a bit of money, I was not a typical "broke student", I know it wouldn't have been the same if I stayed here.

Think it only apply's to Scotland though, your fee's being paid.

Check out this website...

http://www.saas.gov.uk/

31-01-2009 6:47pm

rhapsody! wrote: »

I disagree.
The english system is much fairier by a long shot and offers the student much more choice. The CAO has far too many restrictions.

Ok, explain to me how UCAS is much fairer than the CAO.

Ricky91t · 31-01-2009 7:09pm

LOL,
Some moody boards members on here tonight

rhapsody! · 31-01-2009 7:30pm

Ricky91t wrote: »

LOL,
Some moody boards members on here tonight

I concur.

I can't be bothered explaining, if you're that interested, look at the differences yourself.

LizT · 31-01-2009 10:02pm

Just to let ye know, I'm currently studying Speech and Language Therapy in UUJ and my fees are paid for me by the NHS. I didn't even have to pay a registartion fee. This only applies to some health course though.
My accomodation is £50 per week and the cost of living is much lower here than it would be in Dublin or any other Irish city.

In my case it works out A LOT cheaper to study up here.

31-01-2009 10:14pm

Mr.S wrote: »

CAO - Say your course is 450 points, you get 445, ie 5 points off the in take, you dont get into the course, rejected automatically.

UCAS - You get below what is needed, you still have a pritty good shot of being accepted onto the course, as you've written a personal statement about yourself, ie: its not all about the grades.

Ucas is fairer, hands down.

Your example is irrelevant - it's not an example of UCAS vs. the CAO with respect to fairness, it's an example of UCAS vs. the CAO with respect to strictness; The fact that UCAS may be more lenient with regards to admissions doesn't make it a fairer service than the CAO.

If you went into a shop to buy some product, and it cost €100, but you only had €95, so you couldn't but it - that isn't the shops fault. If you went into another shop, and they sold you the same product for €95, does that make that shop fairer? No. It makes it more lenient. Now, a lack of fairness would be if one shop didn't sell the product to you because of a characteristic which you possess - say skin colour, or wealth etc.

It's known that certain UK universities deny individuals a place on the basis of their socio-economic background. Granted, this isn't the case with all UK universities. But, since the UCAS system allows the prospect of this to happen - it isn't absolutely fair. It would be completely fair if it had a process which didn't allow anything like this to happen. The same isn't true of the CAO, as it's a completely anonymous process.

Say what you will, but, in my opinion, the CAO is a fairer system.

rhapsody! · 31-01-2009 10:38pm

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Your example is irrelevant - it's not an example of UCAS vs. the CAO with respect to fairness, it's an example of UCAS vs. the CAO with respect to strictness; The fact that UCAS may be more lenient with regards to admissions doesn't make it a fairer service than the CAO.

If you went into a shop to buy some product, and it cost €100, but you only had €95, so you couldn't but it - that isn't the shops fault. If you went into another shop, and they sold you the same product for €95, does that make that shop fairer? No. It makes it more lenient. Now, a lack of fairness would be if one shop didn't sell the product to you because of a characteristic which you possess - say skin colour, or wealth etc.

It's known that certain UK universities deny individuals a place on the basis of their socio-economic background. Granted, this isn't the case with all UK universities. But, since the UCAS system allows the prospect of this to happen - it isn't absolutely fair. It would be completely fair if it had a process which didn't allow anything like this to happen. The same isn't true of the CAO, as it's a completely anonymous process.

Say what you will, but, in my opinion, the CAO is a fairer system.

That's because you've been brainwashed.

Universities in England look more at the person and are more interested in the person than insanely high grades.

As well as that, UCAS is £7 for one choice, and £17 for 2 or more choices. The cost never changes, not even passed the deadline. However CAO increases again and again.

Appalling.

31-01-2009 11:16pm

rhapsody! wrote: »

That's because you've been brainwashed.

How exactly have I been brainwashed?

Universities in England look more at the person and are more interested in the person than insanely high grades.

That may be true, which isn't a bad thing. But, there are several Universities that, all other things being equal, a person from a higher class socio-economic backgroud has a much higher chance than somebody from a lower one.

A downside of the lack of anonymity of the system is the oppertunity of delineation of individuals based on their circumstances. A system shouldn't allow this to happen.

As well as that, UCAS is £7 for one choice, and £17 for 2 or more choices. The cost never changes, not even passed the deadline. However CAO increases again and again.

Appalling.

Yes, the CAO increases to €45, and €10 after that to change. It isn't an awful lot more, I certainly wouldn't call it "appalling"; because, in my opinion, you're paying for a better service.

LizT · 31-01-2009 11:20pm

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

How exactly have I been brainwashed?

That may be true, which isn't a bad thing. But, there are several Universities that, all other things being equal, a person from a higher class socio-economic backgroud has a much higher chance than somebody from a lower one.

A downside of the lack of anonymity of the system is the oppertunity of delineation of individuals based on their circumstances. A system shouldn't allow this to happen.

Yes, the CAO increases to €45, and €10 after that to change. It isn't an awful lot more, I certainly wouldn't call it "appalling"; because, in my opinion, you're paying for a better service.

Ok you've both made you opinions clear.... Maybe we should go back to discussing the orginal topic before the explodes into a mud slinging match? Just a friendly suggestion

DAEDULUS · 01-02-2009 11:59am

Ricky91t wrote: »

LOL,
Some moody boards members on here tonight

not really, rhaphsody is just talking out of his arse... he's adamant in his belief that UCAS is better but rather than even trying to explain why its better, he takes the "It just is" approach :F

whadabouchasir · 01-02-2009 2:09pm

You also have to take into account that people could lie on their personal statement just like they do on their CV. I think that the CAO is fairer by far since it ensures complete anonymity. It doesn,t matter who you are or what you;ve done , if you get the points then you get the place. I beleive that strictness is required to ensure fairness and that leniency is more unfair. I do think that the colleges should also interview people in the CAO as well.

Larianne · 01-02-2009 8:31pm

I've applied to Uni of Ulster, Liverpool, Cardiff, King's College and Uni of East London for Physiotherapy.

I think overall the UCAS system is better. Yes, people can lie on their personal statement or get someone else to write it for them but it does seem to encourage people to research the course they want to do and also a lot of the courses (healthcare anyway) require work experience and many interview for places. Having done work experience in hospitals I've spoken to student physios and physios who said themselves they hadn't a clue what the course was about really and just put it down on the CAO coz it sounded good.

Either way I think if you really want to study a certain subject you'll find a way. I'm 26 and going back to study Physiotherapy this year!

Brooke01 · 02-02-2009 7:11pm

Two things I abhorrence about the UCAS is that you have to wait weeks for an offer which is a pain. But you can only right one PS and that is only on one subject...eg you study Physiotherapy you have to right ur PS around that but what about you also like law...you can't right two PS so you have to decide one !!! It’s noting like the CAO

Caoimhe89 · 02-02-2009 10:20pm

IMO there are good points to both the UCAS and CAO systems.

The UCAS aims to be fairer through the use of a Personal Statement, so a person who is not neccessarily very successful in exams can have a better chance in getting into a particular college with an excellent personal statement/reference etc.

The CAO is fair in a different sense; by reducing each candidate to an anonymous number, all places are assigned purely on your academic achievements.

It has to be said though, that the CAO can seem very unfair to those who underperform in tests, and, in the case of a course like medecine, too narrow a view to take on a student's merits (just because you get 600 points doesn't mean you will be a good doctor/teacher/lawyer etc.)

The UCAS is also unfair, in some ways. Because it is not an anonymous, computerised system, it can lead to unfair choices being made. As JammyDodger said, there is the possibility of descrimintion in such a subjective system. No one sitting an interview at Oxford or Cambridge would deny that those who were coached (as people coming from a good, usually private UK school would be) would generally have a better chance at impressing the interviewers. Indeed, most private schools in the UK are taught exactly how to write the Personal Statements, or how to write appropriate essays for submission, or how to do well in aptitude tests. To compare a student who has been coached for entrance like this and someone who hasn't at all could be seen as unfair.

Actually, with the above point, I have to add that the same thing could be said of a student from a disadvantaged school in Ireland, where they wouldn't have the same chance to succeed in the Leaving Cert as someone from a very academic school.

Basically, both systems have their ups and their downs, but personally, I prefer the anonymity (sp?) of the CAO. I much prefer it!:)

/rant

UCAS anyone?

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