Forced to work without pay?

Panda

Heres the situation,
a friend of mine has been told to work saturday (tomorrow) from 9 til 2 if not longer.
the boss is saying that its their fault for not doing their job and they have to catch up.
the task that they need to catch up on is scanning forms into their system.
the reason theres a backlog is that the system is very slow to take the scans.

this has to be against the law, right?

Godge

What does their contract/job description say?

If the contract is based on working a 40-hour week with paid overtime, then it would be perfectly legal to refuse to work unpaid overtime.

however, if the contract requires a certain amount of piece work to be done every day/week and that amount is reasonable, it may be legal in certain circumstances to require that amount of work to be done.

difficulty in all of this in the current climate is what happens if you refuse? a €5,000 payment at the Employment Appeals Tribunal for an unfair dismissal is a cheap way for some employers to get rid of people.

Panda

i havent seen their contract,
thanks for the info tho.

AARRRGH

Does this company begin with a "P"? If so, I know them well, and would advise your friend to start looking for a new job. PM me for more information.

Panda

Hi AARRRGH the company name doesn't start with p, but feel free to pm me and let me know who that is tho :P

Had a look at my friends contract and it does actually say that weekend work may be required, but nothing about not getting payed for it.

The funny thing is that even after going in on the saturday (not all people who were told to did go in either surprise surprise) the system that they use to scan in the forms wasnt working for half the morning.
So this will help to illustrate their point anyway.
A group of them are going to speak to the company director about this if they dont get cold feet.

segaBOY

Perhaps your friend should just get on with it and do the job at hand-we're in a recession, become a member of a productive workforce etc etc

If it's in the contract then your friend has no choice really.

nesf

Panda wrote: »

Had a look at my friends contract and it does actually say that weekend work may be required, but nothing about not getting payed for it.

Are they salaried?


No one on here can tell you if it's illegal or not btw, the best we can give you is experiences in industry. For example I know plenty of people who are on a salary whose work weeks depend on how much work they have to get done. If there's a hard deadline on a project, the team stays in until it's done. They don't get explicit overtime for it but generally their salaries reflect that they'll have weekend work/long hours every so often.

mountainyman

segaBOY wrote: »

Perhaps your friend should just get on with it and do the job at hand-we're in a recession, become a member of a productive workforce etc etc

If it's in the contract then your friend has no choice really.

False as usual. An illegal contract tem can't be enforced and a contractual agreement cannot overwhelm employment law.

You really should stick to playing Sega.

thebman

segaBOY wrote: »

Perhaps your friend should just get on with it and do the job at hand-we're in a recession, become a member of a productive workforce etc etc

If it's in the contract then your friend has no choice really.

I don't think attitude helps. Being requested to work outside of your contract with no pay is not satisfactory behavior on the part of the employer IMO.

Just because there is a recession does not mean people should let themselves be walked all over by their employers. They should still expect a certain level of professionalism in the work place.

If the employer can show they need the hours worked for the business to survive and can't afford to pay then I'd consider working the hours but to just try to get free work from your employees will just annoy them and they won't work as hard so you might be more hours but you'll get less productivity out of the employee's during this time.

nesf

mountainyman wrote: »

You really should stick to playing Sega.

Cop on, same goes for comments like these in Politics. Attack the post not the poster etc.

seamus

mountainyman wrote: »

False as usual. An illegal contract tem can't be enforced and a contractual agreement cannot overwhelm employment law.

There's nothing illegal about unpaid overtime. However, employment law still stands in terms of breaks and minimum rest periods and so forth.

Even salaried workers may be entitled to overtime. It should all be in the contract.

mountainyman

nesf wrote: »

Are they salaried?


No one on here can tell you if it's illegal or not btw, the best we can give you is experiences in industry. For example I know plenty of people who are on a salary whose work weeks depend on how much work they have to get done. If there's a hard deadline on a project, the team stays in until it's done. They don't get explicit overtime for it but generally their salaries reflect that they'll have weekend work/long hours every so often.

They aren't scanning documents though. People in menial work are paid by the hour.

mountainyman

nesf wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster etc.

That is against the spirit of boards.

seamus

mountainyman wrote: »

They aren't scanning documents though. People in menial work are paid by the hour.

I can think of plenty of menial workers getting paid salaries.

Scanning in documents could well be a digitisation project and these guys have been hired on a contract to get this project completed. Everyone on the project might be getting a fixed amount, so it's in everyone's interest to come in and get the stuff done on time for the sake of deadlines.

AARRRGH

Many moons ago, I worked on a scanning project. It was "menial" work, but most people couldn't do it. It required accurate and consistent work, and involved documents which were hundreds of years old.

I got paid a salary.

nesf

mountainyman wrote: »

They aren't scanning documents though. People in menial work are paid by the hour.

No, sometimes they are paid salaries. Wait and see what Panda's answer is before jumping to conclusions.

nesf

mountainyman wrote: »

That is against the spirit of boards.

Not on the more serious forums which this and Politics would be it's not.

segaBOY

mountainyman wrote: »

False as usual. An illegal contract tem can't be enforced and a contractual agreement cannot overwhelm employment law.

You really should stick to playing Sega.

You seem to have it out for me mountainyman :rolleyes:

You haven't read the contract have you? Tbh I have 3 friends that just got laid off and whining about having to work a saturday unpaid is a bit petty in comparisson. But if the OP furnishes more info about the terms of the contract then the question could be better answered. Salaried workers tend to have to work until their project/work is done. If scanning in documents is part of it then so be it, they'll have to do that too. I don't know the terms of the contract perhaps the OP could fill us in more?

PS Once again you seem to have a problem about my username, says more about you tbh.

thebman

segaBOY wrote: »

You seem to have it out for me mountainyman :rolleyes:

You haven't read the contract have you? Tbh I have 3 friends that just got laid off and whining about having to work a saturday unpaid is a bit petty in comparisson. But if the OP furnishes more info about the terms of the contract then the question could be better answered. Salaried workers tend to have to work until their project/work is done. If scanning in documents is part of it then so be it, they'll have to do that too. I don't know the terms of the contract perhaps the OP could fill us in more?

PS Once again you seem to have a problem about my username, says more about you tbh.

TBH, your friends situation is completely irrelevant to the OP's company and its treatment of its workforce.

Just because other companies are laying people off does not mean people that do have jobs should accept a change in working conditions that expects them to work for free at times.

The company he works for could be about to go under and that would be find to request staff to work a little longer but if they are doing it because they know workers are going to find it harder to find new jobs then then that isn't on IMO.

segaBOY

thebman wrote: »

TBH, your friends situation is completely irrelevant to the OP's company and its treatment of its workforce.

Just because other companies are laying people off does not mean people that do have jobs should accept a change in working conditions that expects them to work for free at times.

The company he works for could be about to go under and that would be find to request staff to work a little longer but if they are doing it because they know workers are going to find it harder to find new jobs then then that isn't on IMO.

If the OP furnishes us with more details about the contract them we can comment on it further.

It is guess work from the original post tbh.

However there are plenty of workers out there (particularly in the big bad private sector) who are paid a salary, they have to get projects and so forth done-if they don't, they work weekends and late nights.

Sad world we live in, it aint their employers walking all over them it's the contract they signed.

thebman

segaBOY wrote: »

If the OP furnishes us with more details about the contract them we can comment on it further.

It is guess work from the original post tbh.

However there are plenty of workers out there (particularly in the big bad private sector) who are paid a salary, they have to get projects and so forth done-if they don't, they work weekends and late nights.

Sad world we live in, it aint their employers walking all over them it's the contract they signed.

I'm aware of what is a lot of employment contracts. I'm probably one of the few people that actually read it before signing it.

I've also worked late nights on occasion to get work done.

However most contracts also state on occasion in the contract too (at least that I've signed). If that is the case then this being a once off is fine but if it starts to occur every weekend then it is unacceptable IMO.

Again if the employer does try to treat their workers unethically (whether legal or not), it will be reflected in the productivity of the work force. Most people will end up doing less work naturally just because they are unhappy with the working conditions not because of any conscious effort on their part to do less work.

segaBOY

thebman wrote: »

I'm aware of what is a lot of employment contracts. I'm probably one of the few people that actually read it before signing it.

I've also worked late nights on occasion to get work done.

However most contracts also state on occasion in the contract too (at least that I've signed). If that is the case then this being a once off is fine but if it starts to occur every weekend then it is unacceptable IMO.

Again if the employer does try to treat their workers unethically (whether legal or not), it will be reflected in the productivity of the work force. Most people will end up doing less work naturally just because they are unhappy with the working conditions not because of any conscious effort on their part to do less work.

Agree, a happy workforce is a good one.

However the OP's friend has to work one Saturday scanning documents and it's a legal issue? That's a bit hard to swallow IMO.

Panda

nesf wrote: »

Are they salaried?

Yep, They're all on salaries.
But many of the people that were ordered to come in are fairly have only been working there for around 6 - 8 months.

Its the director of the company thats to blame in this case.
There was a lot of talk about him and not just by his employees of him being very childish.

Yesterday he held a meeting and brought in a copy of some newspaper announcing job losses in some other sector and asked "are ye not happy to work here?"

I'm told the honest answer by most people in the room is a no, but of course they're happy to have a job and will continue to work there despite the ignorance of this man.

segaBOY wrote: »

Tbh I have 3 friends that just got laid off and whining about having to work a saturday unpaid is a bit petty in comparisson.

I disagree, employers shouldnt be allowed to pull this ****.
If theres a point at the end of this thread then its that a recession should not give the employer the cheek to pull this type of ploy.
He's deliberatly taking advantage of the economic climate to throw his weight around.

Unfortunatly i wasnt able to get a look at my friends contract, shes in a different county so i wont be able to for a while either.
But to clarify their role, the scanning is only one of many tasks they perform daily.
There is a backlog due to the slow/broken system, well highlighted when it didnt work on the saturday they came in.

From the feedback you all have given it looks like its just poor management than an issue for the law.

thebman

Panda wrote: »

I disagree, employers shouldnt be allowed to pull this ****.
If theres a point at the end of this thread then its that a recession should not give the employer the cheek to pull this type of ploy.
He's deliberatly taking advantage of the economic climate to throw his weight around.

Unfortunatly i wasnt able to get a look at my friends contract, shes in a different county so i wont be able to for a while either.
But to clarify their role, the scanning is only one of many tasks they perform daily.
There is a backlog due to the slow/broken system, well highlighted when it didnt work on the saturday they came in.

From the feedback you all have given it looks like its just poor management than an issue for the law.

I agree with you but at the end of the day, the only real option is for everyone to complain together which isn't going to happen most likely. They aren't breaking the law.

Bringing up the, your lucky to have a job nonsense is employers talking sh** TBH. I'd just say their lucky to have such a good employee to do the job for them and for such a moderate wage :P

At the end of the day, they should have been sounder about it. The machine is busted, we need you to work overtime to keep the place going would have been a better approach and we appreciate you working over time rather than the lucky to have a job nonsense they seem to have come out with.

Employee's will be reasonable if the manager is reasonable. Your right, its poor management more than anything else.

segaBOY

Panda wrote: »

Yep, They're all on salaries.
But many of the people that were ordered to come in are fairly have only been working there for around 6 - 8 months.

Well if they are on salaries it is probably in the terms of their contract and the employer isn't breaking the law. The fact that some have only been working there 6-8 months is irrelevant imo.

Panda wrote: »

Its the director of the company thats to blame in this case.
There was a lot of talk about him and not just by his employees of him being very childish.

Yesterday he held a meeting and brought in a copy of some newspaper announcing job losses in some other sector and asked "are ye not happy to work here?"

I'm told the honest answer by most people in the room is a no, but of course they're happy to have a job and will continue to work there despite the ignorance of this man.

OK, whilst I would love to offer you a shoulder to cry on perhaps you should hand in your notice if you are that unhappy? Besides this is irrelevant to your working on a Saturday query tbh.

Panda wrote: »

I disagree, employers shouldnt be allowed to pull this ****.
If theres a point at the end of this thread then its that a recession should not give the employer the cheek to pull this type of ploy.
He's deliberatly taking advantage of the economic climate to throw his weight around.

Unfortunatly i wasnt able to get a look at my friends contract, shes in a different county so i wont be able to for a while either.
But to clarify their role, the scanning is only one of many tasks they perform daily.
There is a backlog due to the slow/broken system, well highlighted when it didnt work on the saturday they came in.

From the feedback you all have given it looks like its just poor management than an issue for the law.

Well when you get a proper look at the contract get back to us, not much we can really do if you don't know the terms of employment.

Best of luck with it anyway and if your boss is a bit of a p***k sorry to hear it, some things never change!! :pac: