Becoming a solemniser

Toots

Just wondering would anyone be able to give me a bit of info about how you'd go about becoming a solemniser (not sure if I spelled that right). My H2B and I were toying with the idea of asking his father to marry us, if it's possible. He's a skipper on a boat, so it'd be like the 'ships captain' thing.

What I don't know is can just anyone become a solemniser or do you have to be either a priest or have some sort of qualification? Would anyone be able to give me an idea where I'd find this information? I've been trawling the citizens information site but can't find much. Any advice much appreciated

Cheers.

Victor

I imagine weddings at sea are only valid for the time being and a recongnised ceremony is required for the state to recognise it. So, unless he's a member of clergy of a relevant religion (one recognised by the state for weddings) or a member of the registrars staff, I think you'll have a problem.

Also "skipper of a boat" may not be enough - there may be particular requirements.

Toots

Victor wrote: »

So, unless he's a member of clergy of a relevant religion (one recognised by the state for weddings) or a member of the registrars staff, I think you'll have a problem.

I thought that might be the case alright. I was hoping maybe there was a way you could become a temporary solemniser or something, just to carry out the one wedding.

Also "skipper of a boat" may not be enough - there may be particular requirements.

Ah no, I only added in the skipper bit because that's the reason we thought it'd be nice for him to do it, we're not planning to get marrried at sea (I start feeling sick even looking at boats ) I'd like a civil ceremony, but it seems that having one on a saturday is going to be a problem.

Seoid

You could always have whoever you like conduct the public ceremony and legalise it by going to the registrar office by yourselves, say on Monday morning on your way to the honeymoon or whatever.

Not sure about having a civil ceremony on a Saturday but it seems like a lot depends on the registrar in your area and where/when they'd be willing to go.

abi.rooney

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous that it has to be either a religious or a civil solemniser, considering the civil ones only work weekdays! If you've somehow figured out the answer to the question, I'd love to know...

BC

Seoid wrote: »

You could always have whoever you like conduct the public ceremony and legalise it by going to the registrar office by yourselves, say on Monday morning on your way to the honeymoon or whatever.

I don't understand this. You have to register the marriage at least 3 months in advance for it to be legal? And it has to be conducted by a registered solemniser in a registered building.

Toots

We never found a way around it, and I ended up giving in and agreeing to have it in the church (which is what my OH wanted all along, but I really didn't want it). It's ridiculous that if you want to have your wedding on a weekend a church is pretty much your only option.

hazeler

we looked into this as one of our friend said he'd love to marry us, kinda like the Joey in Friends thing... turns out the online registration is american and american only! oh well!! On my research I did find out that...

You cant become a solemiser in Ireland at the moment as there is an embargo on employment in the civil service. You have to be registered with the deaths, births and marriages office and work there as a civil servant to be one or if you are a member of a clergy be it Catholic, Protestant, whathever faith, you can apply to register as one.

Not sure "skipper" wil suffice for this one... But its a very sweet idea Why not do a civil ceremony on one day and have your father-in-law to be perform a ceremony on your day. We're having a humanist ceremony on a Friday and heading to the registry office on the Monday to do the legal stuff (well thats the plan!!) could you work it that way maybe?

DaraMcG

incase anyone else is looking into non-religious ceremonies you CAN have humanist ceremonies on weekends, but you have to do the civil wedding beforehand (or after, as they only do weekdays it seems). Some churches don't even do sunday weddings so hotels are happy to have you too! it just means you can arrange it with only a few months if it suits

tuisginideach

hazeler wrote: »

This post dates from 2010 - is it still the same situation?

You can't become a solemiser in Ireland at the moment as there is an embargo on employment in the civil service. You have to be registered with the deaths, births and marriages office and work there as a civil servant to be one or if you are a member of a clergy be it Catholic, Protestant, whathever faith, you can apply to register as one.

This post dates from 2010 - is it still the same situation?

lazygal

The Humanist Association of Ireland now has a list of solemnisers. The ceremonies are secular, but it's up to the couple if they want a bit of religious stuff thrown in the mix. I know they train celebrants for weddings, funerals and other life events.

There's also the spiritualists but they're classed as religious by the HSE. And going on the Pat Buckley thing I wouldn't be getting involved with them.

tuisginideach

Thanks but my interest would be in the civil type of marriage (as performed in the registry office) i.e. without any humanist/spiritualist input. Is that side of the profession not open to new recruits?

Faith

Tuisginideach, you may get more accurate responses if you start a new thread in the Work & Jobs forum. This forum doesn't really cater for the question you're asking, and the poster you're quoting hasn't been active in nearly a year.

Peregrinus

tuisginideach wrote: »

Thanks but my interest would be in the civil type of marriage (as performed in the registry office) i.e. without any humanist/spiritualist input. Is that side of the profession not open to new recruits?

Civil solemnisers are (and must by law be) employees of the Health Services Executive. The only way to be recruited as a civil celebrant is to become a Health Services Executive employee, and hope to be appointed to fill this particular role. It's a role with significant responsiblities attached to it, so it's not an entry-level position.

Teyla Emmagan

It's a huge growth industry now apparently, solmenising (which is possibly not the right word). There are loads of courses but you can't get into them apparently for love nor money. According to my friend's wife who looked into it. She was also looking for something more family friendly, to be fair. A pity, because she would have been great at it. Has an innate combination of empathy and gravitas.

tuisginideach

Peregrinus has given me the exact information I need - thanks to all. Pity.

Peregrinus

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

It's a huge growth industry now apparently, solmenising (which is possibly not the right word) . . .

It's not. The Irish Institute of Celebrants trains people in celebrancy, covering not just weddings but also naming ceremonies (for infants), vow renewals, funerals, etc. But it's important to understand that, where weddings are concerned, a celebrant is not a solemnizer registered under the civil registration legislation; the ceremonies they preside over do not result in legally-recognised marriages.

In principle, there's nothing to stop someone who is trained as a celebrant by the Irish Institute of Celebrants or a similar body from also being registgered as a solemnizer. In practice, it's not so easy.

Basically, to get on the register of solemnisers you need to be nominated by the Health Services Executive (and, as already noted, they can only nominate their own staff), a "religious body" that meets certain characteristics (and they can only nominate their own members) or a "secular body" that meets certain characteristics (and they, too, can only nominate their own members).

The "secular body" has to have secular, ethical and humanist objectives; it must have at least 50 members; members must meet regularly regularly in relation to their beliefs and in furtherance of the secular, ethical and humanist objectives; it must show that it has appropriate procedures for selecting, training and accrediting people to solemnise marriages; it has to have been around for at least 5 years; it has to be non-profit; it has to be recognised as a charity by the Revenue Commissioners; etc.

Thus far, the Humanist Association of Ireland is the only body to have been recognized for this purpose. (So far as I know, in fact, it's the only body which has even sought recognition.)

So, right now, as far as non-religious, non-HSE solemnizers are concerned, the Humanists are the only show in town. There's nothing to stop an IIC-trained celebrant from applying to the Humanists to be nominated, but they have their own procedures for selecting, training and accrediting people.

Plus, there are some restrictions associated with being a solemniser. A solemnizer can only preside over ceremonies held in places that meet certain criteria and are approved by the HSE, he or she must use a form of ceremony approved by the HSE that includes certain prescribed legal elements, etc. Celebrants may prefer the relative freedom of being able to hold ceremonies wherever the couple wants, containing whatever elements the couple wants.

Grayson

Peregrinus wrote: »

Thus far, the Humanist Association of Ireland is the only body to have been recognized for this purpose. (So far as I know, in fact, it's the only body which has even sought recognition.)

Just googling this and there's a couple of others. There's a spiritualists group that can do it too.

Unz88

^correct there are quite a few spiritualist solemnises about, also interfaith ministers are also legally recognised to solemnise. Both organisations do not need to specifically subscribe to the beliefs you mention above

Peregrinus

The Spiritualist Union of Ireland and One Spirit Interfaith Foundation are both religious organisations, and they nominate celebrants under the same procedures used by the Catholic Church, the Church of Ireland, etc. The Humanist Association of Ireland is (so far) the only secular body that qualifies to nominate solemnisers.

Non-HSE celebrants (both religious and secular) are required to use a form of ceremony which is recognised by the religious/secular body which has nominated them. The Spiritualist Union and the Interfaith Foundation are both happy to recognise ceremonies which include minimal or no explicitly religious elements and solemnisers appointed by them are generally willing to celebrate such ceremonies. There's no rule in the legislation that says that a religious solemiser can only preside over a ceremony for adherents of his own religion. Some churches, etc, do have a policy of not conducting ceremonies for couples where neither is a member of the church concerned, but others do not. The Spiritualists and the Interfaith Foundation have no such rule.

All of which makes the Spiritualists and the Interfaith ministers popular choices for couples who want a non-religious celebration of their wedding. But they are nevertheless ceremonies conducted by solemnisers appointed by religious bodies.

Earthstar

Humanism is a non-theistic religion, a religion without any belief in God or deities and is a registered religious body in Scotland for the purpose of marriage solemniser regisration.

The government of Ireland does not recognise non-theistic relgions for the purpose of registration as marriage solemnisers, which is why the Humanist organisation cannot be registered as a Religious body in Ireland, like they are in Scotland, even if they wanted to be. The government in Ireland introduced the Secular classification for Non-theistic Relgions such as Humanism, so the Humanists could join other Relgious bodies and register their own marriage solemnisers.

There are many definitions of the word Secular, but at the end of the day it means without a belief in God or an organised Religion, which can technically include non-theistic Religions.

I hope that clarifies the truth a bit more, i believe the public are entitled to know the truth in an unbiased manner.

Faith

Earthstar wrote: »

Humanism is a non-theistic religion, a religion without any belief in God or deities and is a registered religious body in Scotland for the purpose of marriage solemniser regisration.

The government of Ireland does not recognise non-theistic relgions for the purpose of registration as marriage solemnisers, which is why the Humanist organisation cannot be registered as a Religious body in Ireland, like they are in Scotland, even if they wanted to be. The government in Ireland introduced the Secular classification for Non-theistic Relgions such as Humanism, so the Humanists could join other Relgious bodies and register their own marriage solemnisers.

There are many definitions of the word Secular, but at the end of the day it means without a belief in God or an organised Religion, which can technically include non-theistic Religions.

I hope that clarifies the truth a bit more, i believe the public are entitled to know the truth in an unbiased manner.

Errr... there are a number of inaccuracies in your post. Where did you get this information?

The entire thesis of your post is incorrect, as humanism is a philosophy, not a religion. The Humanism Ireland page says:

Humanism is a general personal life stance, not a religion.

Peregrinus

Whether humanism is a religion or not really depends on your definition of the word "religion". And arguing over definitions is, basically, pointless. But it's certainly possible to frame a defensible definition of "religion" which is capable of embracing humanism.

For what it's worth, the Humanist Society of Scotland does not consider humanism to be a religion; in fact it explicitly contrasts a humanist approach to life with "religion or superstition". Humanist celebrants in Scotland are licensed to celebrate legally-recognised weddings under a provision which allows celebrants who are members of a "religious or belief body", and a "religious or belief body" is defined as . . .

an organised group of people—
(a)which meets regularly for religious worship; or
(b)the principal object (or one of the principal objects) of which is to uphold or promote philosophical beliefs and which meets regularly for that purpose

My guess is that the Humanist Society of Scotland qualifies not as a group that meets regularly for religious worship, but as a group whose principal object is upholding or promoting philosophical beliefs, and which means for that purpose.

PhoenixParker

Peregrinus wrote: »

The "secular body" has to have secular, ethical and humanist objectives; it must have at least 50 members; members must meet regularly regularly in relation to their beliefs and in furtherance of the secular, ethical and humanist objectives; it must show that it has appropriate procedures for selecting, training and accrediting people to solemnise marriages; it has to have been around for at least 5 years; it has to be non-profit; it has to be recognised as a charity by the Revenue Commissioners; etc.

My preliminary research on this a few years ago suggested that toastmasters could meet the requirements.

At worst a special celebrants club could be founded, registered as a charity, and use the pathways programme as the celebrants training program.

It would take a certain amount of organizing but in 5 years max it’d be able to churn out hundreds of solemnisers quickly.

Life took over and I wasn’t able to pursue it further but it’s still in the back of my head once kids are past toddlerhood.

Peregrinus

The Irish Institute of Celebrants already exists. However it's more of a professional training/representation group that a body established to further philosophical beliefs, but presumably it could develop into such a body. (Assuming it's a recognised charity - I don't know that.)

The main thing, though, is that if they did get theselves accredited as a "secular body" for marriage registration purposes alongside the Humanist Association, they'd (a) be subject to the restrictions and requirement that apply to registered celebrants and the bodies that sponsor them, and (b) be "competing" in that space head-to-head with the HAI. As it is, their members provide a different service to that offered by HAI - different not only in that it doesn't carry civil recognition (which is a negative) but also in that it's much free-er with regard to form of ceremony, location, combination of religious and non-religious elements if desired, etc. And it may suit them better to occupy that space in the market than to try move into the space that HAI already occupies.

Novice Self-Build

I know this is an old tread but wondering how does one go about getting registered. I have a family member getting married and they have asked me to step up.

I have lots of experience in public speaking at events but fully appreciate that is only a single cog in the wheel.

Any advice?

pooch90

Easiest thing to do is for them to get legally married at HSE offices beforehand then you just do the ceremony on the day. No need to register or anything.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122663801#Comment_122663801

It's not really possible to get registered as an official solemniser for a one-off. To be a registered solemniser you have to be nominated by a religious body, by the Humanist Association of Ireland or by the HSE. The HSE only appoints its own employees; the other bodies have fairly strict requirements and lengthy trained courses as well, and they only appoint their own members.

Anybody can act as MC/celebrant/director at a do-it-yourself ceremony that has no legal standing (but may have considerable significance for the couple and their families and friends). Some people choose to have a ceremony of that kind to mark and celebrate their wedding and, separately, go to the registry office for a very low-key ceremony with just the two legally-required witnesses to secure legal recognition.