Helio Gracie or Bruce Lee

ginoginelli

Who was more the more influential figure in Martial Arts, and for what reasons?

KevinH

The creator of probably the single best fighting method the world has ever seen, or a movie star...........

ColinJennings

I think more people start martial arts because of Bruce Lee than Helio Gracie. Because of that, I think he's more influential. You also have to take into account the fact that more people who don't do martial arts know of Bruce Lee than Helio Gracie.

agardiner22

Couldnt have put it better

Fromvert

Yes but why do people who dont do martial arts know who Bruce Lee is? Is it not because he was in films. I cant take anything away from the man, he was and is an extremely influential figure of martial arts.

But for me Helio is more influential because the man adapted jiu jitsu to help him because of his size. His adapted techniques have become one of the best forms of self defence (second to running away ). Helio founded a form of martial arts. How more influential can you be.

bassy

brucelee no.1

what you seen in the movies was real,this man was incredible both on screen and in real life.

he kicked chuck norris,s ass both on screen and offset





lightning fasttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

cowzerp

chuck norris would of battered lee, it was as real as the wwe, lee just done 5 years of kung fu before setting up a school in america-it became famous because at the time chinese people kept the art to themselves. But been more influential does not mean been better. Most people who want to get into martial arts dont know helio, everyone knows bruce and i believe more people get into arts through lee, and his philosophies for jkd would of been a being a major starting point for mma as we know it. I believe jkd would be mma now if bruce was still alive. Sorry for lack of paragraphs,i'm writing from my phone and cant do it.

Martin25

The poll is plain silly and a waste of time.
Both men were icons of the martial arts and we should give respect to them.

ginoginelli

Martin25 wrote: »

The poll is plain silly and a waste of time.
Both men were icons of the martial arts and we should give respect to them.

Well dont vote on it then.

Who said anthing about not respecting them?

I think everybody can agree they were icons and and highly respected..

I started the poll in order to get some healthy discourse on two of the most popular figures in martial arts history. I left the question intenionally vague to encourage this. It seems to have stired some interest on this mostly uninhabited forum, so whats with the negativity? Remember, if you dont like a threads topic - just dont click.....

Get out the wrong side of the bed today? Seriously..:rolleyes:

bassy

your talking through your hole,its a fact the had a major bust up offset on the making of the way of the dragon and lee kicked his ass.

this is a fact do a bit of research and you,ll find out more about it.

i deal in facts not fiction.wwe now your talking pure sh1te,bruce was the real deal.what you seen on screen he could do in real life.(give or take one or 2 camera moves).

cowzerp wrote: »

chuck norris would of battered lee, it was as real as the wwe, lee just done 5 years of kung fu before setting up a school in america-it became famous because at the time chinese people kept the art to themselves. But been more influential does not mean been better. Most people who want to get into martial arts dont know helio, everyone knows bruce and i believe more people get into arts through lee, and his philosophies for jkd would of been a being a major starting point for mma as we know it. I believe jkd would be mma now if bruce was still alive. Sorry for lack of paragraphs,i'm writing from my phone and cant do it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

ginoginelli wrote: »

I started the poll in order to get some healthy discourse on two of the most popular figures in martial arts history.

I wouldn't have thought Gracie would have shown up on most people's radar tbh.

Leo?

bassy wrote: »

your talking through your hole,its a fact the had a major bust up offset on the making of the way of the dragon and lee kicked his ass.

this is a fact do a bit of research and you,ll find out more about it.

i deal in facts not fiction.wwe now your talking pure sh1te,bruce was the real deal.what you seen on screen he could do in real life.(give or take one or 2 camera moves).

Source please.

Also,

Lol wut.

ginoginelli

i beg to differ, the gracie name is synonymous with martial arts these days.

Raze_them_all

ginoginelli wrote: »

i beg to differ, the gracie name is synonymous with martial arts these days.

For those of us into martial arts. You go out stop 10 people and ask them do they like matial arts. get people that say no. Then ask have they heard of either. Bruce lee will always be mentioned.

arybvtcw0eolkf

ginoginelli wrote: »

i beg to differ, the gracie name is synonymous with martial arts these days.

Ah "these days" being the operative words, in which case we can probably thank Dana White and say Dana's done more to influence and inspire people to train Martial Arts than the Gracies.

ginoginelli

Mairt wrote: »

Ah "these days" being the operative words, in which case we can probably thank Dana White and say Dana's done more to influence and inspire people to train Martial Arts than the Gracies.

Im referring to the present days view on two of the most popular figures in martial arts history. What made you think I was referring to any other era?

and yes you could include dana in there.

roo1981

If the question was who was more influential 'within' martial arts, its got to be Helio. He's created a fighting system thats been simple enough for anyone who trains for a relatively short period of time to get profeciant, while staying effective enough to be adopted by a large number of professional martial artists (i.e. fighters) as their primary delivery system.

Virtually every fighter that wants to make it in Mixed Martial Arts (which is the MA litmus test of today) will in some way have to learn BJJ.

Lees Jet Kun Do system is more a conceptual outlook on fighting-while he may have field tested it himself and found his own version effective, the styles in existence today appear dont appear to be up to scratch-or forementioned professional martial artists would all be learning Jet Kun Do.

In defense of Lees system, he passed before he had to chance to expand it...seeing as he died young (32-33) his art was never truely cemented-whereas Helio dedicated 3 generations (his own, his sons, and their sons) to his.

To finish, I can see BJJ developing and improving for generations to come, due to the accessability of the art. Can the same be said for Jet Kun Do? I doubt it.

Saying that, for the forseeably visable future, Lee will remain the more popular icon-mainly through the accessability of his movies.

agardiner22

Jesus lads every thread on this forum seems to descend into madness, relax

cowzerp

bassy wrote: »

your talking through your hole,its a fact the had a major bust up offset on the making of the way of the dragon and lee kicked his ass.

this is a fact do a bit of research and you,ll find out more about it.

i deal in facts not fiction.wwe now your talking pure sh1te,bruce was the real deal.what you seen on screen he could do in real life.(give or take one or 2 camera moves).

I dont see any facts on it, Norris would of kicked 7 shades of shiite out of Lee-Your claiming it to be fact so prove it, i just gave an opinion!

Your talking out of your hole, and not the hole your meant to be talking out of.

Oh and you probably beleive that stone cold steve austin bashed mike tyson too! yeah right.

agardiner22

They were actually friends they never fought, chuck actually trained under Bruce for a while, befor becoming a master of Tang Soo Do;););)

cagefan

agardiner22 wrote: »

They were actually friends they never fought, chuck actually trained under Bruce for a while, befor becoming a master of Tang Soo Do;););)

Sadly enough, I read Chucks biography, he actually trained with Bruce Lee not under him. They never fought, were friends and Chuck thought that Bruce was one of the strongest people he ever met....chucks a fair bit bigger then Lee so size usually wins. Lee was only 8 stone after all! Wud have been a good scrap

Lee is probably the more influential..helio was never really on my radar before I got into mma but the gracie's sure are now..

agardiner22

i beg to differ size doesnt always win isnt that what Spurred Helio Gacie to take trad jiu jitsu and give us BJJ.
i will rephrase my mistake from earlier and say that he trained with Bruce Lee and not under him
i am sorry bout that

roo1981

agardiner22 wrote: »

i beg to differ size doesnt always win isnt that what Spurred Helio Gacie to take trad jiu jitsu and give us BJJ.

All other things being equal (i.e. skill levels) the bigger guy whups the smaller guy 9 times out of 10. As seen by GSP whupping BJ, Lesnar whupping Couture, Hughes whupping numerous midgets before GSP came along...

In saying that, a skilled small fighter will beat an unskilled bigger fighter 9 times out of 10 as well...

cagefan

agardiner22 wrote: »

i beg to differ size doesnt always win isnt that what Spurred Helio Gacie to take trad jiu jitsu and give us BJJ.
i will rephrase my mistake from earlier and say that he trained with Bruce Lee and not under him
i am sorry bout that

well, I think alot of marital arts started out trying to give the small guy an advantage against a big guy...BJJ being the most successful. I jst think that a fairly novice big guy can cause alot of problems for a fairly advanced small guy...Couture Vs Lesnar, GSP Vs BJ, Joyce Gracie Vs that german dude at the start of the ufc ( he won, but barely)

Martin25

The fact is that Bruce Lee actually taught Chuck Norris in private lessons,they were good friends as well.

chiliconparmi

Take a look at this
http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/brucelee/master.htm

These are someone else’s opinions not mine, I didn’t write the article but I think he makes some interesting points.]

Also if you then go here http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/brucelee/brucelee.htm on the same website it has is biography. Don’t know if this is all correct but was interesting.

cagefan

Martin25 wrote: »

The fact is that Bruce Lee actually taught Chuck Norris in private lessons,they were good friends as well.

In fact, Chuck taught Bruce lee some of the flashier kicks from his style to use in movies as Bruce Lee really only focused on short more practical kicks. Bruce Lee was never Chuck's teacher at least according to Chuck Norris himself. They were friends and trained together the same way when I train with someone I might show them something and then they might in turn show the other person something.

God Im sounding like a chuck norris fan here...I read the book outta boredom..so I know the facts ( from chuck's side at least). It kinda bugs me that people make Bruce Lee out to be this superhero. He was an actor. He has no documented full contact fights. Only what people say 3rd hand. He made a huge impact in ma as far as his movies go....he personally got me into mma but after that we dont know how good he was. I like to believe what I see for myself, not what other people tell me. so we'll never know if Bruce Lee was the best/ a fake/ or anywhere in between

Martin25

Bruce Lee was a very talented man,author and martial artist, he was no superhero.
I have trained with some of his personal students many of whom are talented martial artists. I don't believe in superheros except for Batman!

Martin

Big Wave

Raze_them_all wrote: »

You go out stop 10 people and ask them do they like matial arts. get people that say no. Then ask have they heard of either. Bruce lee will always be mentioned.

The question is "Who was more the more influential figure in Martial Arts?" - not who's more famous amongst people who don't do martial arts or even have an interest in it. Then it's just a popularity contest, which Lee wins because he was in movies: but that's not the question asked by the OP.

agardiner22

Bruce Lee brought martial arts to the mainstream, Helio redefined one type of martial art. you're right its not a popularity contest but still Bruce Lee was more inflential, it was the advent of MMA that made BJJ popular IMHO.
Helio is still one of the greatest though:)

cowzerp

Big Wave wrote: »

The question is "Who was more the more influential figure in Martial Arts?" - not who's more famous amongst people who don't do martial arts or even have an interest in it. Then it's just a popularity contest, which Lee wins because he was in movies: but that's not the question asked by the OP.

People already involved in martial arts may know about the gracies, not helio specifically, i only knew of him when i got into BJJ, Royce i would of known from MMA! did they influence me to do Martial arts? No.

Everybody knows Bruce lee, he did influence me to do martial arts, as did Ali, Chuck norris and even van damme!

Influence does not mean who is better, Lee has got many Millions into martial arts, BJJ in the mainstream is still quite small, and i'd even go as far to say that more people join BJJ because Lee got them interested in martial arts and that is the 1 that happens to be available to them, i joined Kenpo because Lee, left quick as i was not learning the way of the dragon!

PS, I train BJJ and love it so would be a bigger believer in BJJ than JKD!

Valmont

Bruce Lee ftw, his JKD philosophy was really ahead of its time. He was scraping the surface of modern MMA in my opinion.