David Beggs calls for 48% income tax rate

pleba

<rant>

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/euro1000-home-tax-needed-along-with-paye-hikes-1620333.html

Emerging from the talks, the head of the trade union movement, David Begg, said he was seeking a firm commitment that the higher band of tax would be raised to 48pc and for a tax on second homes. He also said unions wanted tax increases to be introduced before the Budget.

Maybe I'm being naive but is this not ridiculous? This man would like to see the higher rate of income tax increased by 7%. Add this to a possible property tax of €1000 per year. Are we not supposed to try to stimulate spending to kick-start the economy?

Didnt think the best way to do that would be to take a lot more money away from people. Not everyone on the higher rate of tax is earning massive amounts of money.

I have no problems paying higher tax IF we had the infrastructure to show for it. IF we had a government we could trust in to actually do something constructive, but in my opinion we have neither.

Is Mr. Begg just trying to deflect from the real issue that the public payroll is far too high?

</rant over>

Hande hoche!

Agree completly he seems like a bit of fool in his attitude.

Lumen

There is no point in getting uptight at one proposal.

Residential property tax
Income tax increase
Public sector pay freeze/reduction
Levy on public sector pensions

What have I missed?

The Times today quoted 50% of income taxes paid by top 6.5%, 38% bottom earners don't pay any income tax. It's possible to argue that this is unfair one way of the other.

Personally, I'd like to see 50% of my mortgage written off to free up what income I have left to allow me to better support the few struggling Michelin-starred restaurants in Dublin, but you can't always get what you want.

Sam Vimes

how about instead we introduce a third band of 48% for higher earners? Oh no wait that would just have the people who can afford it paying :rolleyes:

seamus

I would reduce the lower tax band by €1000, increase the lower rate of tax by 1.5% and reduce the dole by €20.

That way, everybody pays equally. Sounds fair to me.

Since the economy will contract by 5% this year, everything will get cheaper and so we'll be well able to afford this.

Sanjuro

Supposed to be in the now closed property tax thread-

I own an apartment. I was lucky enough to scrape together pretty much exactly what I needed, to the penny, in order to buy the place I live. I pay the, frankly, extortionate property management fees every year. I pay for home insurance. I pay for tax on my car. I pay for the insurance on the car. I pay for the health insurance I am required to have in order to get the mortgage I got. I pay my mortgage. I pay my taxes. And now they're proposing a property tax? They can f*** right off. Not that I'll have a choice, but if there's a way around it, I'll find it. Added to the bills I've to pay, gas, electricity, (appallingly serviced and over-priced) Eircom broadband, television, I just about get by. This tax will cripple me, and I'm one of the ones who is better off than others. But not by much. Is it the goal of the government to actually have people living in the streets or so crippled by debt and taxes that spending comes to a stand-still?

IvySlayer

This is why I hate unions.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Sanjuro wrote: »

. Is it the goal of the government to actually have people living in the streets or so crippled by debt and taxes that spending comes to a stand-still?

Well said Sanjuro, I don't know how I'm supposed to kick start the economy when I have even less money than I have now...

Just as a matter of interest is the €1000 a once off payment or will it be a annual payment?

I think the 7% jump in tax on the higher rate is crazy, although it seems like they're quoting 7% so when they actually do raise the tax rate, by say 5%, people will just be relieved that it's not the 7% they threatened and no more will be said about it.

Tazdedub

Sanjuro wrote: »

Supposed to be in the now closed property tax thread-

I own an apartment. I was lucky enough to scrape together pretty much exactly what I needed, to the penny, in order to buy the place I live. I pay the, frankly, extortionate property management fees every year. I pay for home insurance. I pay for tax on my car. I pay for the insurance on the car. I pay for the health insurance I am required to have in order to get the mortgage I got. I pay my mortgage. I pay my taxes. And now they're proposing a property tax? They can f*** right off. Not that I'll have a choice, but if there's a way around it, I'll find it. Added to the bills I've to pay, gas, electricity, (appallingly serviced and over-priced) Eircom broadband, television, I just about get by. This tax will cripple me, and I'm one of the ones who is better off than others. But not by much. Is it the goal of the government to actually have people living in the streets or so crippled by debt and taxes that spending comes to a stand-still?

Im in the same boat and am disgusted by this porperty tax suggestion. Maybe if they introduce the property tax but get rid of these management companies or at least put in some very tough legislation around them so that it will put an end to rip offs by some of these companies then I would agree to this. But for some people like myself I will be paying €1000 in management fees and then another €1000 euros in property tax, thats an extra 2 grand a year. Do the government think we are all made of money or something?

Degsy

Is the Artists' Tax Exemption thingy still in operation?
I'd dearly love to see that bastard Bono get a tax bill for the first time in decades.

IF there is a property tax of 1000 quid,the only possible upside is that it'll punish people who bought multiple properties out of greed,thinking the only way was up.

Huggles

Degsy wrote: »

Is the Artists' Tax Exemption thingy still in operation?
I'd dearly love to see that bastard Bono get a tax bill for the first time in decades.

IF there is a property tax of 1000 quid,the only possible upside is that it'll punish people who bought multiple properties out of greed,thinking the only way was up.

U2 have moved there taxes to Holland.

suitseir

As there are a lot of management companies especially in our major cities, I would suggest that residents should organise associations and put pen to paper and get pro active by writing to your local politicians, Minister for Finance and even the Taoiseach's office. We moan a lot in this country, to one another, but look at them in France, like yesterday, they are so nationalistic....they get out there and are heard and seen.

You got to have your voice heard and while by and large in this country, we couldn't be bothered, I know from experience for the community where I live that if you get pro active without being abusive, you will get noticed. Maybe it is time to rally the troops as in, all of those who are in properties where these management companies are commanding annual fees and now with the prospect of further taxes to make your voices heard. It will be a lot of work but good leadership is what teants and apartment owners like you guys need.

markpb

I'm not entirely against this tax but I think it will be hard to implement for apartment owners. We already subsidise the local authorities running costs by not having them pay for landscaping, road maintenance, sewage, water supply, etc.

Mizu_Ger

This is really p***ing me off.

Where the hell is Berie in all this? He did the greatest disappearing act since Houdini when the things started to go belly up. He let us get into this position and is now laughing it up on his great pension.

Robbo

Degsy wrote: »

Is the Artists' Tax Exemption thingy still in operation?
I'd dearly love to see that bastard Bono get a tax bill for the first time in decades.

The Artists Exemption has been capped at €250,000 for a while now. As a result, U2 moved their music publishing interests to Holland.

Dord

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

Well said Sanjuro, I don't know how I'm supposed to kick start the economy when I have even less money than I have now...

Just as a matter of interest is the €1000 a once off payment or will it be a annual payment?

I think the 7% jump in tax on the higher rate is crazy, although it seems like they're quoting 7% so when they actually do raise the tax rate, by say 5%, people will just be relieved that it's not the 7% they threatened and no more will be said about it.

I believe that it's an annual payment. Load of b0ll0x if you ask me! :rolleyes:
The government are doing the exact opposite that they should be doing.

Tazdedub

markpb wrote: »

I'm not entirely against this tax but I think it will be hard to implement for apartment owners. We already subsidise the local authorities running costs by not having them pay for landscaping, road maintenance, sewage, water supply, etc.

I have visions of apartment buildings been left to rack and ruin like many flat complexes were is the 70's 80's and 90's if left in the hands of the local authorities, then again we are seeing the same thing happening with management companies. To me if they do introduce this €1000 property tax then they will need to have some very tough legislation to make sure that apartment complexes are look after by who ever has been given the contract to do that or else I can see more apartment complexes heading the same way as the flat complexes of Ballymun and Sheriff Street in the 70's. 80's and 90's.

themadchef

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

I think the 7% jump in tax on the higher rate is crazy, although it seems like they're quoting 7% so when they actually do raise the tax rate, by say 5%, people will just be relieved that it's not the 7% they threatened and no more will be said about it.

I think thats exactly it.

We are only hearing whispers of whats to come. If the stories are bad enough, then we will almost feel relieved when it's not as bad as initially reported. Do they think we're kids?



2nd house property.
I have one home. I'm truly lucky to have the one i have.

There are those with 10 houses as investment properties. These people are responsibe for the huge demand and huge price increases when ordinary couples starting out couldint afford even one house. I have no sympathy for people with a sceond house. Why? No one NEEDS a second home. They were bought as investments. Investments are risky. You took a risk, simple as that.

What makes me angry is that the ordinary working citizens of this country who never made it big during the boom are the ones left holding the can after all the good times were had. Why should we have to suffer for years of reckless behaviour from the people who thought the good times would never end?
There are people out there losing the roof over their heads as we speak and yet the people with 2 properties are moaning about 1k a year.

I'm not going to make many friends saying that, but it's how i feel.

iPlop

What the fcuk happened to all the money over the years ,I mean just weeks after the builders holidays(and they stopped building) the country is broke ,not even in a small way BILLIONS are dissapearing each week.Nothing kept for a rainy day ,they could have put 1billion away each year during the good times to at least buy time and weather the global recess a bit to make level headed decicions on where and what to tax.Instead of standin' there sayin "ohhh noo bollix ,bollix ,bollix tttaaaxxx everyone and anything you see ,shyte ,shyte ,shyte --I NO!, 2% delivery levy on new born babies in the coombe ,yeah ,yeah thats it make a fortune" All the taxation we've been hearing about since christmas has been PANIC TAXATION ,and this bunch PRSI worker arse rapist polititions are not gonna get us out of the shyte any time soon! and feckin property tax is only the start!

Mountjoy Mugger

pleba wrote: »

<rant>

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/euro1000-home-tax-needed-along-with-paye-hikes-1620333.html



Maybe I'm being naive but is this not ridiculous? This man would like to see the higher rate of income tax increased by 7%.

Didnt think the best way to do that would be to take a lot more money away from people. Not everyone on the higher rate of tax is earning massive amounts of money.

I have no problems paying higher tax IF we had the infrastructure to show for it. IF we had a government we could trust in to actually do something constructive, but in my opinion we have neither.

Is Mr. Begg just trying to deflect from the real issue that the public payroll is far too high?

</rant over>

I agree with a lot of what you say.

However, back in 1979 when I started working in the public service, I was on an annual salary of £3223, netting £48.50 p.w.

I was paying 60% tax as a Clerical Officer. Always on the top rate - even before joining the P.S. - I paid the same rate as a night porter in the Great Southern in Galway.

Some don't know how lucky they are. Blame the Unions all you like, but it was the Unions and their members who got the tax rate down through the massive PAYE marches in the 1980's.

sceptre

Septic Leper wrote: »

What the fcuk happened to all the money over the years ,I mean just weeks after the builders holidays(and they stopped building) the country is broke ,not even in a small way BILLIONS are dissapearing each week.

Some of it didn't really exist. It's interesting that comparisons with Japan are now being highlighted, I know I mentioned this somewhere on boards around 2003 and I'm sure the celebrity economists did as well at some point. So many people were borrowing money to buy houses that there was a large amount of mirage in the amount of value (as opposed to money) that was flowing around the economy.

Having said that, any idiot should know that a rainy day will come sooner or later and the government are the keepers of the purse strings so it's their job to put that away. I may run my personal finances like Brazil does but I'd expect better for this country's finances.

Sizzler

themadchef wrote: »

2nd house property.
I have one home. I'm truly lucky to have the one i have.

There are those with 10 houses as investment properties. These people are responsibe for the huge demand and huge price increases when ordinary couples starting out couldint afford even one house. I have no sympathy for people with a sceond house. Why? No one NEEDS a second home. They were bought as investments. Investments are risky. You took a risk, simple as that.

What makes me angry is that the ordinary working citizens of this country who never made it big during the boom are the ones left holding the can after all the good times were had. Why should we have to suffer for years of reckless behaviour from the people who thought the good times would never end?
There are people out there losing the roof over their heads as we speak and yet the people with 2 properties are moaning about 1k a year.

I'm not going to make many friends saying that, but it's how i feel.

I agree with 99% of what you said mate but to be fair to everybody some people dont have 2nd houses because they are "investors". Example 1 - Family member passes away and the house becomes yours, you keep it for nostalgia because its where you grew up or want it for your kids or you have a younger brother and sister thats not yet 18 and not able to take it on yet. Am I now an investor?
Example 2 - I had a house but my job brought me to the other end of the country, I couldnt sell my house as the market is bollixed but I needed a family home elsewhere, didnt want to rent so I took on a 2nd mortgage while trying to sell the 2nd house. Would the govt now see me as some rich wheeler dealer property mogul with 2 gaffs when nothing could be further from the truth

IF the government pull this stunt off (cue mass riots) then I think they would need to look VERY carefully and the people who fall into the above brackets as plainly one rule does not neccessarily fit all in this case.

Sizzler

sceptre wrote: »

Some of it didn't really exist. It's interesting that comparisons with Japan are now being highlighted, I know I mentioned this somewhere on boards around 2003 and I'm sure the celebrity economists did as well at some point. So many people were borrowing money to buy houses that there was a large amount of mirage in the amount of value (as opposed to money) that was flowing around the economy.

Having said that, any idiot should know that a rainy day will come sooner or later and the government are the keepers of the purse strings so it's their job to put that away. I may run my personal finances like Brazil does but I'd expect better for this country's finances.

+1

Apart from the idiocy of the current policies being implemented (touted) by our leaders what really gets me is the fact that they are looking for the average taxpaying Joe on the street to bankroll their monumental fiscal & regulatory cock-ups from the last 10 years. What a load of bollix frankly.

People pay their taxes, contribute to the economy, try to to their best in the main and they entrust the people in power to do what they have been put there for, run the country with competance, integrity and foresight. Can anybody name someone in the cabinet today that possesses any of those qualities

ejmaztec

Sizzler wrote: »

+1

Apart from the idiocy of the current policies being implemented (touted) by our leaders what really gets me is the fact that they are looking for the average taxpaying Joe on the street to bankroll their monumental fiscal & regulatory cock-ups from the last 10 years. What a load of bollix frankly.

People pay their taxes, contribute to the economy, try to to their best in the main and they entrust the people in power to do what they have been put there for, run the country with competance, integrity and foresight. Can anybody name someone in the cabinet today that possesses any of those qualities

Unfortunately, I can't think of any politician that fits the bill, in the entire country.

deleriumtremens

Mizu_Ger wrote: »

This is really p***ing me off.

Where the hell is Berie in all this? He did the greatest disappearing act since Houdini when the things started to go belly up. He let us get into this position and is now laughing it up on his great pension.

Yeah. And wait till you see, the c'unt will get the presidency aswell. In 30 years, people will remember him and associate him with a period of massive growth whereas the reality is that he was a stupid b'astard who couldnt handle our finances. He was a crook b'astard too. Argghh :mad:

Ally Dick

deleriumtremens wrote: »

Yeah. And wait till you see, the c'unt will get the presidency aswell. In 30 years, people will remember him and associate him with a period of massive growth whereas the reality is that he was a stupid b'astard who couldnt handle our finances. He was a crook b'astard too. Argghh :mad:

Bertie was a reckless chancer. Ten years ago everyone thought he was a great man for the way he was running the country. What he did was take some of the money from the tax take on houses and give it back to the public service with the benchmarking. Now the public service doesn't want to give any of it back. Meanwhile that charlatan is sitting in Fagans sipping Bass with a big sneer on his face. He planted the time bombs that Biffo now has to deal with

Mizu_Ger

Ally Dick wrote: »

Bertie was a reckless chancer. Ten years ago everyone thought he was a great man for the way he was running the country. What he did was take some of the money from the tax take on houses and give it back to the public service with the benchmarking. Now the public service doesn't want to give any of it back. Meanwhile that charlatan is sitting in Fagans sipping Bass with a big sneer on his face. He planted the time bombs that Biffo now has to deal with

And he'll never be held accountable.

Ally Dick

Mizu_Ger wrote: »

And he'll never be held accountable.

Sadly, history will judge Bertie Ahern as the man who brought peace to Northern Ireland. History will not see him as an inassertive idiot who gave unforgivable concessions to the public service and who sat back and did NOTHING as the property house spiral got out of control