How to raise threat, greatly?

Anti

So.. Basicially i'm looking for a bit of help with my threat. Now that we have progressed through all 25man content and the DPS are starting to get some really nice gear im haveing some problems holding the initial threat from a few players in my guild, these few in particular:

Lock:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonglade&n=Jazka

Fury Warrior:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonglade&n=Machiko

Retardin:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonglade&n=Durain

If im given the chance to get a lead then its no big problem, but at the start they can often pretty much catch up and almost pull, so im constantly taunting or using mocking blow on bosses. Trash is no problem at all though.

I've geared pretty much for high Block (27.44%) and partially ignored dodge/parry. Should i go the other way instead? or should i keep a balance? I've got gear sets for all, but when i mix and match i can hit about 21/22% across dodge/parry/block.

Oh, This is me btw:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonglade&n=Maerwynn

Mostly +stam gems in there, should i change them for something else ?

Any help at all is most appreciated

(hope i didnt log out in my ****ty fury gear)

Anti

yup, im in fury gear. Will go and respecc and log again

DRakE

dont read the presidential patch notes.. you'll never go above threat level yellow

Anti

back in prot spec/gear.

copeyhagen

just started leveling my warr and havin loads of fun in prot spec, was gonna spec fury but prot is so much fun.

especially with shieldslam crits of 2k and revenge crits of 3k!

ill be stealing any info you get too

Karl Hungus

Anti wrote: »

Oh, This is me btw:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonglade&n=Maerwynn

Messy as hell spec. No points in gag order? +10% shield slam damage = a lot of treat. 2/3 incite? That's losing out on a full %5 crit chance on your main abilities. Puncture/Improved Bloodrage = wasted points.

Two words, Deep Wounds. Get it. You've got Broken Promise? Well that's one of he most ideal weapons to use for a Deep Wounds build because of the slow speed increases DW bleed damage.

Your gear is fantastic overall so don't worry about that, you just need to sort out the spec to take full advantage of it.

Anti

Cheers Karl, Have just respecced to DW and am going to try a few heroics now to see what its like

How about my gear though? Should i drop some block and add more dodge/parry? Same with gems, shoudl i drop some of these stam ones ?

Karl Hungus

Anti wrote: »

Cheers Karl, Have just respecced to DW and am going to try a few heroics now to see what its like

How about my gear though? Should i drop some block and add more dodge/parry? Same with gems, shoudl i drop some of these stam ones ?

Don't think you need to drop anything at all man, your gear is great. The only thing I'd say is to get a new pair of boots. If you want something threatening then check the AH for these, with talents they add over 100 block value. That's a lot of slam hurt. You could maybe get a +str gem in there, but really, all your threat problems would be down to your spec and not your gear.

Xyo

Dodge > parry > block.

Anti

Cheers again, Just had a look for them boots and none on AH, been spamming trade too. Problem is there are only a few guilds who are farming naxx atm so i'd imagien that if any drop then they will go to the tanks then offspec. Ill keep an eye out though

Blofeld

Spamming devastate does the trick. Failing that, hitting the mobs also helps.

Karl Hungus

Anti wrote: »

Cheers again, Just had a look for them boots and none on AH, been spamming trade too. Problem is there are only a few guilds who are farming naxx atm so i'd imagien that if any drop then they will go to the tanks then offspec. Ill keep an eye out though

Yeah well, as I've said, your threat problems are completely down to spec and not gear. The boots would be a nice addition, but won't solve the problem. So don't bother spamming trade looking for them.

Anti

Been doing a few heroics today, threat has incresed greatly thanks to 8k shield slams and revenge crits. I found a macro to weave in HS inbetween every devistate which seems to be helping, and my figers are thankfull for it xD

Anti

Yup, did naxx25 tonight and that spec rocks nothing came close to me in threat. Also managed to get the t7.5 helm and got the t7 shoulders and epic defence trinket from 10man too. Thanks for the help karl ^^

Karl Hungus

Good stuff Anti. I told you, it's a good spec.

WellyJ

Blofeld wrote: »

Spamming devastate does the trick. Failing that, hitting the mobs also helps.

Not any more it doesnt, No reason to use devestate apart from refreshing sunders,

Shield Slam, Revenge and even Heroic Strike are all far superior threat builders.

The majority of your damage on single target fights should come from Shield Slam, if it doesnt then you are doing something wrong.

Horsefumbler

There was a time when dps were expected to manage and watch their own threat now it's the tanks fault if the pull gro. Bollox tbh :pac:

WellyJ

It's not bollocks really, threat has gone out the window with WOTLK. There are very few situations where threat should ever be an issue right now. It is reasonable to expect the tank to outthreat almost anything.

I'm speaking from tanking Naxx with my warrior and also doing 6,000 DPS on my mage on Patchwerk

I don't even have Omen installed anymore when playing the mage. The tanks in my guild never have threat issues. And in worst case situations I have invisibilty

Horsefumbler

I know that threat has gone out the window in wotlk but I don't think it means dps shouldn't be responsible for their own threat.

WellyJ

Horsefumbler wrote: »

I know that threat has gone out the window in wotlk but I don't think it means dps shouldn't be responsible for their own threat.

I know what you meant, I disagree though

Blame the lazeh tanks xD

Schism

Anti wrote: »

Been doing a few heroics today, threat has incresed greatly thanks to 8k shield slams and revenge crits. I found a macro to weave in HS inbetween every devistate which seems to be helping, and my figers are thankfull for it xD

Can you pm me that macro, I'd appreciate it greatly.

Anti

Too lazy to pm, so here it is

#showtooltip
/cast Devastate
//cast !Heroic Strike
/startattack

Ivan

/startattack is totally unnecessary as both of those abilities will start the auto-swing.

And without trying to be too harsh, that is what we in the business call, "A chump macro". I.e. it's a macro for chumps.

It takes control out of the hands of the player in a way that is not really that helpful and can in fact actually have a negative effect.

If you are rage starved, then using a heroic strike is generally not a good idea when you would be better off using a shield slam or something else...

Personally, albeit from a non-warrior perspective, I've always found that threat issues are generally down to a poor tank skill/spell rotation rather than gear or spec. I'm not saying thats the case here as I know very little about warrior tanks; but it is generally the last thing people consider when they want to improve their threat output.

Gummy Panda

How is your hit and expertise? Are you gemming or enchanting expertise?

I'm not sure about prot war in wotlk since its all changed since i was one in tbc but DK tanks seem to be making sure they have a decent amount of expertise now.

Schism

Anti wrote: »

Too lazy to pm, so here it is

#showtooltip
/cast Devastate
//cast !Heroic Strike
/startattack

much obliged good sir

degrassinoel

so long as ye spec with shockwave and critblock you should have a huge amount of threat from those alone.

If a lock and retridin are getting above you in threat thats THEIR fault, not yours. locks can soulshatter, and retridins are usually so thick they have righteous fury on.. 90% increased threat lol.

havent played my tank in a few weeks, so unless there's been a major patch..this was my normal rotation for heroics/raids, multimob tanking. Never had a problem with it.

Thunderclap/Shieldblock+Shieldslam your main target, Shockwave it and anything else, demo shout if you dont have a fury warrior with ye. then spam shieldslam(lots of procs for free ones if you specced right) thunderclap and shockwave, when all are on cooldown, use devastate and heroic or anything that hits hard and fast, heroicstrike is good due to it not causing a GCD. shieldblock again when it coolsdown.

the only thing to look out for is the placement of the main target and whatever adds, or if its like in naxx with loads of ****, mark your target, so the dps dont lay into the wrong target, saves you from pulling yoru hair out too.
meh am sure i'm just rehashing stuff you already know here.

Karl Hungus

Degrassinoel, I seriously doubt any tank is gonna forget to use thunderclap, shield slam and shockwave... I don't think Anti was auto-attacking and going for a cup of tea. His threat problems were 100% down to spec, which if you didn't see before he respecced, was missing some absolute essentials and having loads of wasted points in talents like improved bloodrage and puncture. All the devestate spams in the world aren't gonna compensate if your spec is missing essential threat generating abilities.

And seriously, stop passing the buck to the DPS, it's Wotlk here, DPS can burn all out and the tank should have no problems staying on top.

degrassinoel

i didnt see his spec before it was changed, and passing the buck?

i've had the misfortune of raiding with locks who seem to use high threat spells only, (destro spec)
and unbelievably retridins and even a holy pally who had righteous fury on. causes nothing but strife until its called to attention.

Anti

Aye as KH said it was all down to my spec completely, nothing to do with my rotation. Ive managed to get a few more gear upgrades since my last post, got the boots Karl was on about twice now lol. The 1drake bonus chest from Sarth and t7.5hands. Still no t7.5 legs have dropped or the shield from KT

Karl Hungus

Anti wrote: »

or the shield from KT

You've got the Patchwerk shield, the one from Kel wouldn't really be much of an upgrade at all.

degrassinoel wrote: »

i didnt see his spec before it was changed, and passing the buck?

i've had the misfortune of raiding with locks who seem to use high threat spells only, (destro spec)
and unbelievably retridins and even a holy pally who had righteous fury on. causes nothing but strife until its called to attention.

The 'passing the buck' comment wasn't just aimed at you, but a few people in thread also... I've seen too many tanks just fob off their own poor tanking by blaming DPS, I knew of one who didn't use heroic strike, but was always very quick to hurl abuse at people who would over aggro them. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but I've seen too many tank ****ups that are passed down to DPS when the tank could easy look to their own spec or rotation to see where the problem is, and address that.

Hell, the last guild I was in had some serious tards tanking, even one nugget who guild quit because as he not-so-politely told me "I can't get any raids because of you" but didn't cop to the fact that he was a piss poor tank who couldn't hold threat and got abusive towards DPS, so mostly they didn't even want him to tank. I still see that muppet around, but he's fury specced now, so I guess his new guild didn't want him tanking either. Another tank in my previous guild was and still is running around with the biggest facepalm of a spec I'd ever seen; 0/5/66.

Now, don't get me wrong, there can be some serious ****ups on the side of the DPS, but if you're constantly being overaggro'd then you should seriously look at what you're doing wrong first.

By the way, with regards to your rotation, I wouldn't use shockwave too early into a pull, save it for after shield block expires. You don't want to have them all stunned and waste half of your shield block cooldown.

degrassinoel

yeah i know what ye mean, i had an offtank in one guild who told me on vent in a raid, he hadnt used taunt since he was level 60.. we were doing Gluth at the time. kinda needed him to use taunt every 10-15 seconds.

seriously there are some horror stories from all sides in wow, no class is immune to having complete eejits in it.

Anti

Aye i know what you mean about the shockwave, if its trash groups i usually jut change stance and pop retaliation and spam shockwave. I'd still like that shield though Problem is now there arn't any big upgrades left for me that ill see a noticible difference with Maybe the legs perhaps but thats about it.

Karl Hungus

degrassinoel wrote: »

seriously there are some horror stories from all sides in wow, no class is immune to having complete eejits in it.

Oh yeah, every class has people who don't know what they're doing, that goes without saying.

Anti wrote: »

Aye i know what you mean about the shockwave, if its trash groups i usually jut change stance and pop retaliation and spam shockwave. I'd still like that shield though Problem is now there arn't any big upgrades left for me that ill see a noticible difference with Maybe the legs perhaps but thats about it.

I know what you mean there, I just got the biggest upgrade possible a couple of days ago, Last Laugh.



I'm still in need of a top end shield, hopefully the one from patchwerk, but I haven't had any luck with those. Never even seen any shield drops from Patch, Kel or Maly. There's a few bits and pieces left that could be a small upgrade, but on the whole, I'm just after a shield now.

If you want something to aim for, get a trinket collection. It sounds excessive, but I carry around 7 different trinkets with me at all times, and I've got more in my bank. I see you're using the defense trinket from Naxx 10, what I would suggest there is making sure you're over 540 without trinkets, and ditching it. That way you can swap around trinkets without having to worry about being crit immune, and you get a huge degree of functionality from all of them.

For example, when fighting Patchwerk, I will use Defender's Code and Valor Medal of the First War, and stagger the cooldowns so I have a high amount of dodge over the course of the fight. One of the best ones in my collection is Darkmoon Card: Greatness, which is the only trinket you'll ever want for threat, the proc rate is massive, 33% uptime or +190 strength over 45 secs. It's expensive, but well worth it. If you're already using Lavanthor's Talisman, then you'll have ridiculous amounts of block value with the Darkmoon Card.

Anti

Ive actually passed on the defenders code many times now as i dont see a use for it, i would like that card though. And i know what you mean about trinkets as i do carry around quite a few. Without the def trinket i can get 535 def in this gear, but i dont really want to drop parry or stam gems to get a def gem

Karl Hungus

Anti wrote: »

Ive actually passed on the defenders code many times now as i dont see a use for it,

Ah, don't knock it. There's a couple of boss fights where I'll use it, the fact that it doesn't share a cooldown with the Valor Medal means you get a huge amount of use out of it, and 850 armor isn't to be sniffed at when you've got to take a hateful strike on the chin. Use in a rotation like Trinket 1 > Shield Block > Trinket 2 > Shield Block, and you can be avoiding/mitigating more than usual. If it crops up again, I'd say you should definitely take it.

Anti wrote: »

i would like that card though.

Yeah, it's definitely a fantastic trinket. The thing is you have to know a scribe or twelve, and even then it can be hard to get because it's a random card each time. That, or shell out a hell of a lot of gold.

Anti

Heh, just did a quick 25man maly to pass the time and low and behold the 25man tanking legs drop ^^

degrassinoel

grats lol

SandwichNSushi

New to this site. Great to know lots ppls play WoW in Ireland .

Tried to quit wow twice. The second time lasted 1 year. Now Im back. lvl70 mage, nearly full T7.5 set. (just need the helm):)