Marriage Problems - she wants out but he's in denial

LegacyUser

I'm looking for some info for a friend (yes, it really is for a friend, she's a PC virgin so I said I'd do a bit of research online for her) who's in a disastrous marriage and wants out. The problem is, that for whatever reason, her hubby is in complete denial and doesn't accept that the marriage is over, even tho they've been in separate rooms and fighting for over 2 years!

Anyway, she's considering marriage counselling but only to get him to accept it's over, she has NO interest in trying to fix it and does not love this man or ever trust him again.

Has anyone got any suggestions on how to do this? Would marriage counselling cover this or just expect them to try and fix it? Is there any books on this that anyone can recommend? I've looked on Amazon and googled the issue too but there doesn't seem to be much information on getting the spouse to accept it's over.

Any info appreciated, thanks....

MagicMarker

Tell her to get off her ass, stop making excuses and leave.

padser

Sounds like a solicitor would make more sense rather than a book

Stheno

Your friend doesn't have to have her husband accept the marriage is over.

She can (if financially viable) move out of the home, and file for a judicial seperation after a period of three years living apart (due to her husband not accepting the marriage is over) apart, see http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/separation-and-divorce/judicial_separation

The purpose of marriage counselling is to help couples resolve any difficulties that they have in a marriage, so if your friend wants to resolve her problems, and hopes to stay married, that may be a route to take.

Overheal

If its over its over. Unless she wants to try and save the marriage, why the hell would she stick around, pay for counseling to get him to try and understand that, when simply packing your bags and leaving will have the same effect? We're in a recession, dear. Save a few hundred euro and let him pay for his own shrink.

jessbeth

Usually the purpose of counselling is to save something. If she doesn't want it to be saved and just wants it to be over then why is she still living there. Tell her to move out and who cares if the husband doesn't accept it. He might never accept it and is she just going to stay there until he does? That doesn't make any sense in my book.

shellyboo

Sounds like she wants HIM to leave... but if she really truly wants out, she has to take the first step. She's never going to convince him, so she needs to leave.

Beruthiel

Unregistered wrote: »

even tho they've been in separate rooms and fighting for over 2 years!.

This isn't rocket science.
Why, after two years, is she still living in the same house with him?
All she has to do is move out, he'll get it then.
Has she gone to a solicitor and applied for a legal separation?
The fact that she is still in the house after two years tells him one thing, it's not over yet.
She's an adult, how does she not 'get' this?

CDfm

She does have to option to move out and get her own place and legally seperate. While she hangs in there she may give the impression she wants to stay and which she doesnt want to do.

She wants to end the relationship so it is silly to expect him to move out when he is happy where he is,

Why wont she move? Does she not want to loose the house or is there another reason?

Overheal

I have to wonder who is really in Denial here.

CDfm

Overheal wrote: »

I have to wonder who is really in Denial here.

I agree. Everything would be great if he would only do what he is told;)

PS I hope she will pay the legal fees too

00112984

Sounds like she likes the attention of having friends rally around, telling them how badly she wants to get out, getting them to "research" information for her while all the time staying in the same house as this man.

I've seen it before several times with friends. They enjoy the thrill of the engagement and the wedding and then realise a marriage is a lot of work that pretty much goes unnoticed so they kick off to get more attention.

I know it sounds harsh but I've seen it so many times and I've noticed it's almost always the woman who claims she can't walk out. Now, OP, you didn't mentioned too much about their circumstances, kids etc. but, unless there's a huge reason she can't walk out, there's nothing stopping her getting out that door and finding a solicitor.

My advice to you, OP, would be to keep out of it. God knows, if they ever get back together, you'll be the one who said X and Y about her husband.

CDfm

Unregistered wrote: »

even tho they've been in separate rooms and fighting for over 2 years

Has anyone got any suggestions on how to do this?

Do you have a spare room she can move to?

Salome

Unless there's children involved, there's no reason why she would want to stay in the same house as him. Or maybe money is the motivating factor? She wants the house or her cut of the house and she won't get it if she walks. Cynical thought of mine - I'm probably right though.

Talliesin

Unregistered wrote: »

Would marriage counselling cover this or just expect them to try and fix it?

No ethical marriage counsellor would have any particular outcome in mind. It certainly can be helpful to some people in reaching the point of realising that it's over.

At the same time, I can see why someone would make a degree of effort to help their ex get to that point, but after that length of time of her having declared it over, he may not be able to get it until she physically leaves. Or he may not so much have an issue dealing with that as just be happy enough with the limbo-ish status quo and not have any motive towards vocalising what he does really realise.

Curvy Vixen

Maybe she owns the house hence the reason that she wants him to leave?

And you have to have lived apart for at least a year before you can even apply (assuming you both agree to it) or for three years if one of you is objecting to the seperation.

You also have to show that you have tried counselling and/or mediation.

CDfm

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Maybe she owns the house hence the reason that she wants him to leave?

And you have to have lived apart for at least a year before you can even apply (assuming you both agree to it) or for three years if one of you is objecting to the seperation.

You also have to showe that you have tried counselling and/or mediation.

Great reply BTW - but the house is now community property and co-owned by both irrespective of the names on the deeds.

So they stay like they are , sell the house and split any profits after paying any legal fees or one buys out the other.

She wants it to happen so she is the one who has to make the offer. As it stands it appears that the only thing she has said is go. In other words she has offered nothing and he has to bear the cost of rearranging his life to facilitate her. Whats in it for him?

It looks like he is in for the long haul - so it up to her to either move out or up her offer. Cmon give the guy an incentive and make it more attractive:)

The_Conductor

CDfm wrote: »

So they stay like they are , sell the house and split any profits after paying any legal fees or one buys out the other.

While this would be ideal- in the current climate- its improbable that either partner are in a position to buy the other out (particularly with relationship breakups- banks seem to treat people like lepers, I really don't understand why). Failing that- were they to sell the house in the current market- its entirely possible that they could book a large loss on what they paid for the house originally (executor sales are now at 2001 levels). So a net debt would probably be the more likely scenario.......

Curvy Vixen

CDfm wrote: »

Great reply BTW - but the house is now community property and co-owned by both irrespective of the names on the deeds.

So they stay like they are , sell the house and split any profits after paying any legal fees or one buys out the other.

She wants it to happen so she is the one who has to make the offer. As it stands it appears that the only thing she has said is go. In other words she has offered nothing and he has to bear the cost of rearranging his life to facilitate her. Whats in it for him?

It looks like he is in for the long haul - so it up to her to either move out or up her offer. Cmon give the guy an incentive and make it more attractive:)

Well then you had better let my solicitor know that cos when I spoke to him on Tuesday about my house and our impending seperation he told me that seeing as how the house was mine, in my name and bought before we got married (before I met him actually) that I was absolutely entitled to go home, kick him out and change the locks ! No such thing as marital property if there are no kids involved apparently...

We don't have enough information on the OP's friend to know if this is the case for them so I was offering some very up to date information on what seems to be a similar situation to my own!

CDfm

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Well then you had better let my solicitor know that cos when I spoke to him on Tuesday about my house and our impending seperation he told me that seeing as how the house was mine, in my name and bought before we got married (before I met him actually) that I was absolutely entitled to go home, kick him out and change the locks ! No such thing as marital property if there are no kids involved apparently...

We don't have enough information on the OP's friend to know if this is the case for them so I was offering some very up to date information on what seems to be a similar situation to my own!

You are right that we dont have enuf info.

But it is a complicated issue as family finances between couples get mixed up during marriage and this means that pre owned assets are not always free of a claim.

This is an interesting link that goes into detail

http://www.diydivorceireland.com/FamilyHome.htm

Curvy Vixen

CDfm wrote: »

You are right that we dont have enuf info.

But it is a complicated issue as family finances between couples get mixed up during marriage and this means that pre owned assets are not always free of a claim.

This is an interesting link that goes into detail

http://www.diydivorceireland.com/FamilyHome.htm

Yep, family home is looked at differently assuming there are children involved (ie.e making it a home that the family live in). If there are none it isn't considered a family home just a property that is singly or jointly owned IYSWIM?

Anyway, I certainly don't want to be giving out 'seemingly' legal advice.

Maybe your friend should go and seek legal advice rather than counselling OP? If she is sure the marriage is over then that would make the most sense. You can make an appointment for €50 for an hour for standard general advice..

The link that CDfm posted is helpful but things can be miscontrued too easily i.e. family home vs property etc... A solicitor will put them both wise...

LegacyUser

I can identify with her OP. I was in a terrible relationship with my ex, we owned a house together, he was the partner from hell, I mean hell, you name it he did it, or didn't do it.

I was DESPERATE to get away from him, but he did everything in his power to keep me there, I was so miserable it was a living hell.

Anyway, I wasn't in a position financially to buy him out and to be honest over the years he had bled me dry of every penny I got and nearly destroyed my credit rating as well as his own. He was earning great money but mean as could be, spent my money with abandon but was the type of person who had always forgotton his wallet etc
I paid ALL the household expenses while he just ran up debts, so I was not walking away without my half.

So I had to use every womanly wile I had pretending I still cared about him to get him to buy me out. It took probably 4 or 5 years in total, he would go to the brink and I would almost be home free and then he would go off on a bender or cancel the appointments to sign things etc etc

Anything he could do to sabotage the process he did. He was in total denial about the fact that I was leaving him. OP, I can truly identify with your friend and I really empathise with her.

If they own property together, she really may be fcuked and as trapped as I was. She cant walk away as her name is on the mortgage and all the utility bills and he probably wont pay it as revenge and she will get credit blacklisted and never qualify for a mortgage/ be able to get gas/esb ever again.

What I had to start doing was living a seperate life outside the house, I had to tread on eggshells though in case he found out as the sabotage would escalate if I didn't keep it all on the low down.

He used to follow me where I would hang out and see off any potential future boyfriends with his incessant clinginess, it was really a living nightmare.

Please give us more info, if this man is anything like my ex, I could give you a few tips on dealing with it.

LegacyUser

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Maybe she owns the house hence the reason that she wants him to leave?

And you have to have lived apart for at least a year before you can even apply (assuming you both agree to it) or for three years if one of you is objecting to the seperation.

You also have to show that you have tried counselling and/or mediation.

Living apart does not mean living in different addresses, one can prove living apart in the same house, and it is valid for seperation purposes.