The French know how to pull off a strike, could we learn from them?

Run_to_da_hills

Down through the years the French have been very militant at pulling off strikes and have succeeded, It has been seen it with students, fishermen and truck drivers. Now they have pulled off this big one that has ground the country to a stand still. Could this be the start of many across Europe? What are thew chances of it happening in Ireland?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7857814.stm

Tabnabs

Strike over what? What would it achieve?

Caoimhín

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What are thew chances of it happening in Ireland?

Feck all chance. The Irish are too fat and drunk, busy watching British soaps and football to take to the streets.

The only time there is any protest is when vested interests and the vocal minority (see crazy people) take to the streets. The majority are too dumb and pacified with football and celebrities to do anything.

Run_to_da_hills

Dyflin wrote: »

Strike over what?

"Many are angry that the banks were given a multi-billion euro bail-out while floundering industries and businesses were offered far less help".

Nodin

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"Many are angry that the banks were given a multi-billion euro bail-out while floundering industries and businesses were offered far less help".

If the banks go bust, what happens to the money in the banks? Whose money is in the banks?

Get back to me.

Soldie

Caoimhín wrote: »

The only time there is any protest is when vested interests and the vocal minority (see crazy people) take to the streets.

Are you suggesting that the French protest just for the sake of it?

thebman

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"Many are angry that the banks were given a multi-billion euro bail-out while floundering industries and businesses were offered far less help".

And so far the bank that was bailed out was done so because the people with loans from that bank, donated money to the main government political party, FF.

basically a walk out and down to the dail to protest would achieve a walk up call to the politicians that we are mad as hell and we aren't going to take it anymore and that political reforms are needed and demanded by the people to ensure the greed that has lead to this crisis will not occur again.

ejmaztec

Anybody going on strike at the moment would be shooting themselves in both feet and in the head.

OhNoYouDidn't

Dyflin wrote: »

What would it achieve?

In France the elites have to factor in the general public and their reaction to their actions.

We could do with being listened to, so maybe some street action might jolt FF out of their coma.

Caoimhín

Soldie wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the French protest just for the sake of it?

No. That is not what I am suggesting at all.

thebman

Yes the main problem here is that you could never count on your work mates joining you in the strike action.

They'd be more likely to go down the pub for a pint than show up at the dail to protest or they'd stay at home.

Some would probably go to work to try to make the ones that didn't get fired and move up the corporate ladder.

Its not a bad idea but I don't think the people here would allow it to happen themselves. They will fight against those that would through apathy or greed.

ejmaztec

thebman wrote: »

Yes the main problem here is that you could never count on your work mates joining you in the strike action.

They'd be more likely to go down the pub for a pint than show up at the dail to protest or they'd stay at home.

Some would probably go to work to try to make the ones that didn't get fired and move up the corporate ladder.

Its not a bad idea but I don't think the people here would allow it to happen themselves. They will fight against those that would through apathy or greed.

So, basically, you'd be standing on your own with a placard, and would be regarded as a lone nutter by the general public.

pigeonbutler

thebman wrote: »

And so far the bank that was bailed out was done so because the people with loans from that bank, donated money to the main government political party, FF.
QUOTE]

Does that make any sense?

If you owed loads of money to a bank would you not be delighted if it went bust and couldn't enforce the loan?

Why would keeping it going benefit you in any way?

thebman

pigeonbutler wrote: »

thebman wrote: »

And so far the bank that was bailed out was done so because the people with loans from that bank, donated money to the main government political party, FF.
QUOTE]

Does that make any sense?

If you owed loads of money to a bank would you not be delighted if it went bust and couldn't enforce the loan?

Why would keeping it going benefit you in any way?

It makes a hell of a lot of sense because the debts don't die with the bank!

enda1

pigeonbutler wrote: »

If you owed loads of money to a bank would you not be delighted if it went bust and couldn't enforce the loan?

Why would keeping it going benefit you in any way?

Debts are an asset. They don't vanish if a bank goes bust.

And why oh why do people think an all out stike could help?

Do any of you realise how poorly France is thought of in the MNC field. No one wants to source a supplier in France because of the possibility of the supplier not delivering because they are on strike, the postman is on strike, the sncf are on strike etc. etc.

Their labour market is completely stifeling because of their absurd laws and regulations and beurocracy which inhibits innovative enterprise and fast hire/ fast fire.

All Ireland has going for it in the global game are its English language, corporation tax, highly educated population, dynamic labour market, and the low levels of beurocracy.

If Ireland gets a name for striking when things get tough, we put ourselves in a very dangerous position for any company looking to set up business or source supplies in a certain market.

The only good thing this country has going for it and people want to ruin that too!!

OhNoYouDidn't

enda1 wrote: »

Their labour market is completely stifeling because of their absurd laws and regulations and beurocracy which inhibits innovative enterprise and fast hire/ fast fire.

Yet they have one of the highest quality of life of anywhere.

Join the dots in your own time....

thebman

enda1 wrote: »

Debts are an asset. They don't vanish if a bank goes bust.

And why oh why do people think an all out stike could help?

Do any of you realise how poorly France is thought of in the MNC field. No one wants to source a supplier in France because of the possibility of the supplier not delivering because they are on strike, the postman is on strike, the sncf are on strike etc. etc.

Their labour market is completely stifeling because of their absurd laws and regulations and beurocracy which inhibits innovative enterprise and fast hire/ fast fire.

All Ireland has going for it in the global game are its English language, corporation tax, highly educated population, dynamic labour market, and the low levels of beurocracy.

If Ireland gets a name for striking when things get tough, we put ourselves in a very dangerous position for any company looking to set up business or source supplies in a certain market.

The only good thing this country has going for it and people want to ruin that too!!

There are still lots of multinationals in France and they have a good domestic economy. If we modeled ourselves more on France then we would most likely develop closer economic ties.

Anyway it isn't just France that is striking/rioting. There is civil unrest in a lot of countries due to the way the financial market has been let run lose and take down nations economies or come close to it in some cases.

People aren't p*ssed for no reason and the goverments don't seem to want to address the problem properly. I don't think people will stand for absorbing the debts of the banks in their countries.

paulocon

Probably a stupid question so please excuse my ignorance but what would be the implications on any of these banks going to the wall? I understand that anyone who has a loan out would not see that debt die with the bank but people with cash invested would probably see none of it after creditors took their piece of the pie?

Just I've heard some people make a comment such as 'they should have let the banks go'.

On a similar note, in the case of Anglo - will the government eventually 'sell' the bank in the future?

NewDubliner

pigeonbutler wrote: »

If you owed loads of money to a bank would you not be delighted if it went bust and couldn't enforce the loan?

That's not how it works.

A loan shark moves in and takes control of the bank's business and calls in all the loans even if you're up to date on your payments. You're forced to sell your security (house, shares, whatever) at the bottom of the market (perhaps to the shark). The depositors, meanwhile, wait until the shark decides to give them their money.

Be careful what you wish for.

RandomAccess

Caoimhín wrote: »

Feck all chance. The Irish are too fat and drunk, busy watching British soaps and football to take to the streets.

The only time there is any protest is when vested interests and the vocal minority (see crazy people) take to the streets. The majority are too dumb and pacified with football and celebrities to do anything.

You forgot about the pensioners!
They're our last hope.

LoveDucati2

Caoimhín wrote: »

Feck all chance. The Irish are too fat and drunk, busy watching British soaps and football to take to the streets.

The only time there is any protest is when vested interests and the vocal minority (see crazy people) take to the streets. The majority are too dumb and pacified with football and celebrities to do anything.

Brilliant:D

Sums the Irish up

The only good outcome of this Recession is that the Mass going, FF, FG, ITV / TV3 viewing public now realise that the government is a bunch of incompetent f*ckwits.

Heinrich

Dyflin wrote: »

Strike over what? What would it achieve?

Ask the French!

• Liberté
• Egalité
• Fraternité

Would do for a start.:cool:

blinding

When the French goverment tries to force somthing on the French people that they do not like they tell the french goverment to bend over and ram it up their a**e.

When the Irish goverment with the help of their cronies in the media decide what we should put with they tell us to bend over and The Irish people squeal "ram like you have never rammed before."

Heinrich

blinding wrote: »

When the French goverment tries to force somthing on the French people that they do not like they tell the french goverment to bend over and ram it up their a**e.

When the Irish goverment with the help of their cronies in the media decide what we should put with they tell us to bend over and The Irish people squeal "ram like you have never rammed before."

The French had a revolution! Since that great event they elect politicians to run THEIR REPUBLIC. We do not do likewise. Bertie and Co. would have been strung up long ago.

LoveDucati2

Heinrich wrote: »

The French had a revolution! Since that great event they elect politicians to run THEIR REPUBLIC. We do not do likewise. Bertie and Co. would have been strung up long ago.

Its a pity he wasn't.

How much did he actually get in donations altogether

bmaxi

I don't see the point of a strike in a situation like this, the only ones to suffer will be yourself and your employer, who may already be in difficulty. I was on the tax marches of the 1980's and I'm still waiting to see the benefits.
Protest outside Dail Eireann by all means but your real protest should be at the polling station, too many people whinge and cry at their situation but are too lazy to get up and do something about it, instead always leaving it to someone else. I am involved in my local residents association and we have a problem with the Managing Agent. At a recent AGM, when something could have been done, SEVENTEEN people out of over 200 households bothered to turn up. This is typical of the apathy abroad in the country.
I agree, incidentally, with earlier posters, IMO those who gained most from the protests of the 80's were the publicans and the bookies.

Phototoxin

The French had a revolution! Since that great event they elect politicians to run THEIR REPUBLIC. We do not do likewise. Bertie and Co. would have been strung up long ago.

if we didn't have political nepotism, an elected 2nd house, elected councilors and more transparancy rather than our rediculously closed systems we have now AND if people voted intelligently rather than be clouded by historical steriotypes;

'ah begorrah we cant vote fina gael 'coz dere deh blue shirts, we'll all be nazis'

'ah be jayzus we cant vote sinn fein because they are the ira'

'we cannot vote X because of Y they did Y years ago'

'we cant vote anyone other than FF because no one else has the experience to run the country'

Its a vicious spiral of doom...

bonkey

When people learn to protest with their vote, then something might be done.

Until then, its going to remain business as usual.

Jumpy

bonkey wrote: »

When people learn to protest with their vote, then something might be done.

Until then, its going to remain business as usual.

Given your choice in Ireland, it isnt going to change.

Cow Moolester

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Yet they have one of the highest quality of life of anywhere.

Join the dots in your own time....

In the Quality of Life index, Ireland ranks no.1

France ranks 25th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index

Join the dots in your own time....

bonkey

Jumpy wrote: »

Given your choice in Ireland, it isnt going to change.

That's strange.

Here in Switzerland, there was a significant shift from the previously-mainstream parties to previously-midsized parties. It also represented a shift from "centerist" parties to the "right".

The result has been, in many ways, significant. All the parties which lost out suddenly started looking at what they were doing wrong...why the voters became disenfranchised with them enough to go for what was previously considered to be a far less palatable option.

The message sent was "we want change". The result was that all parties started paying more attention to what it is the voters actually want.

Now, I accept that Switzerland is somewhat unusual, not least because the referendum system here ensures that no massive change can result from such a shift without the public's additional consent. The point I'm making, however, is that while the message sent to the politicians is "regardless of what you do, we'll vote for you anyway because there's no beter choice", then you get business as usual. send a "we demand change", even if its a choice that won't really chance much...then I believe you'll see change.

In France, you don't have a situation where one party has ruled the roost for decades. There, protest is a sign that the public demand change. The government know it, and know that come voting day it won't be a case of "well, we made our point and it didn't work, so lets vote for them anyway"....so they're inclined to listen.

Of course, you can believe that this will never work in Ireland. You can buy into "business as usual". If you do, then seriously....don't expect anything to change, particularly not from some demonstrations.

But if what you're really saying is that there's no better choices in Ireland, so even demanding change will do nothing...then there's no point in demonstrating either. You've got the best you can get.

thebman

Cow Moolester wrote: »

In the Quality of Life index, Ireland ranks no.1

France ranks 25th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index

Join the dots in your own time....

har de har har! I'm sure it isn't a flawed measurement.

bonkey

thebman wrote: »

har de har har! I'm sure it isn't a flawed measurement.

Can you define flawed, other than in terms of "I disagree with it"?

blinding

Cow Moolester wrote: »

In the Quality of Life index, Ireland ranks no.1

France ranks 25th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index

Join the dots in your own time....

you do know that anyone can edit wiki and it cannot be trusted as a reliable source

sceptre

blinding wrote: »

you do know that anyone can edit wiki and it cannot be trusted as a reliable source

You could look at the footnotes, which include a link to the original economist report on their site. That's why wikipedia is useful.

Of course the report comes from 2005 and a few things have changed since then.

LoveDucati2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cow Moolester
In the Quality of Life index, Ireland ranks no.1

France ranks 25th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index

Join the dots in your own time....

har de har har! I'm sure it isn't a flawed measurement.



the government did the poll:D

nesf

Anyone who thinks the French attitude to strikes should be emulated should take a good look at how strikes by public unions have been used to create massive havok in order to secure very generous pay deals and conditions for certain small groups of workers (transport are a major culprit here).


How would people here feel if Irish Rail, CIE and Dublin Bus staff could retire 2.5 years before everyone else on full benefits (and a high public sector pension) and that these workers would routinely do complete work stoppages (of up to a week's duration!) in order to protect this?


Edit: An article from 2007 in the Economist discussing Sarkozy's potential fights in trying to remove these "special regimes": http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10141083

I remembered reading it and going "what the ****, how do these people have popular support?"

jester77

bonkey wrote: »

Can you define flawed, other than in terms of "I disagree with it"?

I quickly glanced at it, there are some obvious flaws in it, first divorce in Ireland was not legal until recently, second what does being part of a union or going to church have to do with quality of life? I stopped reading after that.

Mr.Micro

Speaking of strikes what is the point of the Waterford crystal workers sitting in at the plant until the Receiver reverses his decision to close the plant:rolleyes:


I have great sympathy for those people losing their jobs but why or how can the Receiver keep the factory open in view of the strength of the Euro Vs Dollar, the global meltdown, not to mention that the product is old hat and outdated. No point in flogging a dead horse, if banks world wide have gone to the wall it should be no surprise that Waterford crystal has no chance.

bonkey

jester77 wrote: »

I quickly glanced at it, there are some obvious flaws in it, first divorce in Ireland was not legal until recently,

How is that a flaw? Its talking about quality of life today, not quality of life at some point in the past when we lived under different laws.

second what does being part of a union or going to church have to do with quality of life?

Live in or look at countries where you can be arrested or executed for doing such things, and you might figure it out.

thebman

bonkey wrote: »

Can you define flawed, other than in terms of "I disagree with it"?

I'd say that would be my point. Quality of life isn't a universal thing. Different people would put different weightings on different things.

DARKIZE

As one who lived in France for a couple of years, I can categorically tell you the quality of life is NOT higher, nor is the economy in better shape than ours. Unemployment is getting towards 10%, and the goal of many young people is to get a job in the public services because of the shorter working hours and generous pay/pensions, so something like 35% of the population are employed by the government. The French have powerful public-sector unions who resist any concession on their T&Cs, so basically the PS in France has been spoilt for many years. Outside of that sector though, prospects are pretty grim; witness the riots in Paris a couple of years ago. Yes they have fantastic health system as well, but again it has to be paid for......and what happens if the govt try to raise more taxes or cut costs ? Yup....down tools boys.

On the plus side - you haven't tasted cakes until you've tasted the French ones.

OhNoYouDidn't

nesf wrote: »

How would people here feel if Irish Rail, CIE and Dublin Bus staff could retire 2.5 years before everyone else on full benefits (and a high public sector pension) and that these workers would routinely do complete work stoppages (of up to a week's duration!) in order to protect this?

"

If thats the price we pay for a public transport system like the French have, I'm for it.

OhNoYouDidn't

bonkey wrote: »

Can you define flawed, other than in terms of "I disagree with it"?

Because I genuinely can't see how Ireland scores that much higher using that methodology.

But as I brought it up, France has what is generally considered the worlds best healthcare system, better schools and lower class sizes, a universal creche system, a far superior public transport and roads network, better sporting and cultural infrastructure (supplied by the state), a good mix of indegenious industry and MNC's, a fraction of our suicides etc. I'm not saying its perfect, but I think they have a better balance.

I consider these kind of things a better measure of quality of life than the divorce rate and how many people go to mass. They have climate in there ffs. Somalia is hotter than Sweden. So what?