Driving lessons rip-off

dollybird09

Your thoughts please?...

I paid for 20 driving lessons back in September-haven't used all of them. I called the school to organise to take the last 8 before my test - I was told that as of Jan 1, the price of lessons has gone up to 48 euro from the 38 I paid.

Now the school say I'm only entitled to 6 lessons instead of the 8 that I paid for at the lower rate to make up for the price increase.

Can they do this? Surely when I bought the lessons that was a contract of sorts?

Blue_Wolf

Seems a little unfair alrite.

However look at it from a different way.

You buy 200euro worth of Hmv vouchers, you dont use them. The price of all cds and dvds have increased by 5euro. which is a 25% increase based on an album and dvd being 20euro. Now your voucher is only worth 150euro even though you paid 200euro for it.

Climate Expert

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Seems a little unfair alrite.

However look at it from a different way.

You buy 200euro worth of Hmv vouchers, you dont use them. The price of all cds and dvds have increased by 5euro. which is a 25% increase based on an album and dvd being 20euro. Now your voucher is only worth 150euro even though you paid 200euro for it.

Seems she bought in units of lessons which is different.

And €48 is insanely expensive for some unskilled clown to sit in a car for an hour.

Paulw

Make the most of your remaining 6 lessons.

Unfortunately, there is very little you can do about their price increase.

dollybird09

Ok but I paid €760 for 20 lessons - it was a reduced rate from €840 cos I booked twenty together. It's not like it was just a voucher. It was specifically for 20 lessons.

Its like saying if I pay for ten yoga classes and just before my 6th lesson they put price up by €5 - I wouldn't expect to have to pay extra cos the price went up!! I'd expect my ten lessons at the agreed rate

Climate Expert

Paulw wrote: »

Make the most of your remaining 6 lessons.

Unfortunately, there is very little you can do about their price increase.

Wow such a defeatist.

She is entitled to 8 more lessons and there is plenty she can do about it.

dollybird09

Climate Expert wrote: »

Wow such a defeatist.

She is entitled to 8 more lessons and there is plenty she can do about it.

hee hee .. any suggestions on what those things are?

Climate Expert

dollybird09 wrote: »

hee hee .. any suggestions on what those things are?

My name really should be Consumer Expert as I've been to the small claims court more often and never lost. They are very consumer oriented there.
Heres what I would do.

1. Tell them its bull you paid for 20 lessons and you are getting 20 lessons or there will be trouble.
2. If they don't play ball you can do the following
3. Sue them in the small claims court for the remaining 8 lessons saying they refused to hounour your vouchers asking for 10 extra each lesson. This does maximum damage. I would go for this option. You could,
4. Sue for the cost of the remaining 2 lessons in the small claims court.
Both of these will cost e15 but at this stage its really the satisfaction you are looking for.

Make sure to badmout them here and everywhere you can. Disgraceful carry on, I mean its more than a 25% price increase.

keane2097

Climate Expert wrote: »

My name really should be Consumer Expert as I've been to the small claims court more often and never lost. They are very consumer oriented there.
Heres what I would do.

1. Tell them its bull you paid for 20 lessons and you are getting 20 lessons or there will be trouble.
2. If they don't play ball you can do the following
3. Sue them in the small claims court for the remaining 8 lessons saying they refused to hounour your vouchers asking for 10 extra each lesson. This does maximum damage. I would go for this option. You could,
4. Sue for the cost of the remaining 2 lessons in the small claims court.
Both of these will cost e15 but at this stage its really the satisfaction you are looking for.

Make sure to badmout them here and everywhere you can. Disgraceful carry on, I mean its more than a 25% price increase.

This.

You already paid for the lessons which means you already bought them which means you own them. They can't charge you more for them since you're the owner.

i71jskz5xu42pb

Climate Expert wrote: »

Wow such a defeatist.

She is entitled to 8 more lessons and there is plenty she can do about it.

Agreed. OP bought 20 lessons and is entitled to 20 lessons assuming that she did not agree to some clause that factored in price increases.


People who just roll over and take this kind of crap are the reason we have such a rip off culture here. Why wouldn't businesses chance their arm if people are just going to say "ah, shure that seems OK". Jesus! :mad:
(and I'm not talking about the OP here, I'm talking about the people giving ill-informed advice)

Blue_Wolf

Climate Expert wrote: »

My name really should be Consumer Expert as I've been to the small claims court more often and never lost.

Majority of consumers win when they go to the small claims court...Not because they are right but because the company couldnt be arsed defending themselves as the cost of that is more than what the arguement is about.
Some companys dont even bother sending representatives out.

Cabaal

48e ouch, I paid 30 and 35e for mine last year

You paid upfront for the lessons, as such you are still due those lessons which they can't charge you extra for, tell them then perhaps write to them saying you want the lessons or its off to small claims court

Climate Expert

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Majority of consumers win when they go to the small claims court...Not because they are right but because the company couldnt be arsed defending themselves as the cost of that is more than what the arguement is about.
Some companys dont even bother sending representatives out.

True. I don't bother arguing with companies anymore. Most of the time it gets settled out fo court. e15 is the cost I pay to not argue.

Blue_Wolf

Climate Expert wrote: »

.
And €48 is insanely expensive for some unskilled clown to sit in a car for an hour.

Totally disagree. Firstly they are skilled and trained. Like a teacher is trained and knows how the Leaving cert works and where you can gain extra points. Driver instructor know's how the test system works and what you should and shouldn't do. Therefore they are skilled. Secondly regarding your comment of 48euro per hour. You have to consider the cost of the car as it's modified, the cost of insurance which is higher as there's someone behind the wheel that may have never been. The cost of the licence. The cost of the instructor using the name of a well known driving school.

Thats like saying a doctor charging 45-50euro for a consulation is a rip off. However those don't consider firstly that the doctor spent 10-12 years in college to learn to be able to diagnose ones problem. The fact that they were on crap money for the last 10years of training. Insurance on the clinic is really high because someone can sue, it's a public area so it's more hazardous than your own home. The cost of medicine and the tools and instruments needed to carry out normal day to day work. Cost of being registered on the medical health board. One is greeted by a receptionist. Her wages have to be paid. One is warm inside the bright waiting room. Nobody considers professionals overheads. Add all those costs up and a doctor may be only getting 20euro per consultation.

Add up the overheads of the professional driving instructor. Why make it out that they are making 48euro profit for an hours work when they don't?!

jhegarty

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Totally disagree.

And we have had 25% inflation since last September ?

Blue_Wolf

jhegarty wrote: »

And we have had 25% inflation since last September ?

Has that got to do with them wanting to earn more, or has that got to with their costs increasing by 25%?

jor el

Since you paid, in advance, with presumably no mention of possible price increases (even if they did mention it, they wouldn't be able to retro-actively charge you for it) then you're due the lessons you paid for, or a full refund for all unused lessons.

i71jskz5xu42pb

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Has that got to do with them wanting to earn more, or has that got to with their costs increasing by 25%?

Is that a serious question? It's pretty clear their costs have not increased by 25% in 4 months. If anything with the price of oil, interest rate drops, rent drops their costs have come down.

My guess is that they are not seeing as much business as they had hoped and have decided to make this up by slapping on a 25% price increase. Unusual strategy, but there you go.

Blue_Wolf

jor el wrote: »

Since you paid, in advance, with presumably no mention of possible price increases (even if they did mention it, they wouldn't be able to retro-actively charge you for it) then you're due the lessons you paid for, or a full refund for all unused lessons.

That makes we wonder actually if you get refund, will u be refunded the current going rate or the old rate...

Blue_Wolf

Alessandra Slow Squalor wrote: »

Is that a serious question? It's pretty clear their costs have not increased by 25% in 4 months. If anything with the price of oil, interest rate drops, rent drops their costs have come down.

My guess is that they are not seeing as much business as they had hoped and have decided to make this up by slapping on a 25% price increase. Unusual strategy, but there you go.

My question was have they upped the price because they are greedy? which you have indirectly answered as no stating that they have upped as they are not getting as much business, therefore losing money.

My second part of my question was or has their cost gone up. If someones cost has gone up that means they are not making as much money as does having fewer customers mean your not making as much money. So you think it's 2nd one out of that. So they aint robbing useless guys after all just trying to make a living like we all are

the_syco

jhegarty wrote: »

And we have had 25% inflation since last September ?

The dude whom I get lessons from had to take a "break" for a few weeks, as he had to get certified by the RSA. Not cheap, I'd say, knowing our government.

i71jskz5xu42pb

the_syco wrote: »

The dude whom I get lessons from had to take a "break" for a few weeks, as he had to get certified by the RSA.

This was a long time coming, should hardly have been a surprise to the guy? And given that he was already driving & instructing it's not like he should have had to take a huge amount of time to prepare for it.

the_syco wrote: »

Not cheap, I'd say, knowing our government

Stage 1 (Theory Test) 150
Stage 2 (Driving Test) 200
Stage 3 (Instruction ability test) 200

2qk4u

Alessandra Slow Squalor wrote: »

This was a long time coming, should hardly have been a surprise to the guy? And given that he was already driving & instructing it's not like he should have had to take a huge amount of time to prepare for it.



Stage 1 (Theory Test) 150
Stage 2 (Driving Test) 200
Stage 3 (Instruction ability test) 200

Dont forget the €250 to go on the register...

2qk4u

OP, Why did you pay so much for lessons ? The bigger schools are a rip off, there are some very good instructors out there charging between €35 to €40 per hour and even less for blocks of lessons..

Lollipops23

dollybird09 wrote: »

I paid for 20 driving lessons back in September-haven't used all of them. I called the school to organise to take the last 8 before my test - I was told that as of Jan 1, the price of lessons has gone up to 48 euro from the 38 I paid.

jebus that's very expensive!!did you buy a voucher or did you buy 20 lessons?there'd be a diff; if it's a voucher then you've no case, if it was 20 lessons then id go nuts. it's like getting a voucher for a beauty treatment and then only getting half of it cos expenses have gone up. as long as it's in date it should be honoured.

foggy_lad

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Totally disagree. Firstly they are skilled and trained. Like a teacher is trained and knows how the Leaving cert works and where you can gain extra points. Driver instructor know's how the test system works and what you should and shouldn't do. Therefore they are skilled. Secondly regarding your comment of 48euro per hour. You have to consider the cost of the car as it's modified, the cost of insurance which is higher as there's someone behind the wheel that may have never been. The cost of the licence. The cost of the instructor using the name of a well known driving school.

Thats like saying a doctor charging 45-50euro for a consulation is a rip off. However those don't consider firstly that the doctor spent 10-12 years in college to learn to be able to diagnose ones problem. The fact that they were on crap money for the last 10years of training. Insurance on the clinic is really high because someone can sue, it's a public area so it's more hazardous than your own home. The cost of medicine and the tools and instruments needed to carry out normal day to day work. Cost of being registered on the medical health board. One is greeted by a receptionist. Her wages have to be paid. One is warm inside the bright waiting room. Nobody considers professionals overheads. Add all those costs up and a doctor may be only getting 20euro per consultation.

Add up the overheads of the professional driving instructor. Why make it out that they are making 48euro profit for an hours work when they don't?!

anyone with a full licence can set up their own driving school give driving lessons and very few driving instructors have any formal qualifications.

also learning to drive should be much more than simply learning how to pass the test which most driving instructors seem to concentrate on. surely making sure someone is competant on the road is more important than teaching them all the tricks required to pass?

2qk4u

foggy_lad wrote: »

anyone with a full licence can set up their own driving school give driving lessons and very few driving instructors have any formal qualifications.

I think you are wrong here, most driving instructors in the country are qualified or in the qualifying system. When you qualify you are awarded a Fetac Award Level 6. Your comment is outdated, thats the way it used to be.It is illegal for anyone to give driving lessons for reward from April this year unless you are an approved driving instructor/ ADI.

311

If you stand back from the situation at hand ,it would be the wrong thing to threaten the place with court.

You don't want to be getting lessons off some smart ass ,right before you do your test. That would defeat the purpose of the lessons.

Personally I'd ask them for the eight lessons you paid for ,if they say no ,then ask for the remaining amount of cash left. You did not choose to increase the prices ,so you should by rights be able to take lessons elsewhere.

jor el

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

That makes we wonder actually if you get refund, will u be refunded the current going rate or the old rate...

She'd be due back whatever balance wasn't used by the lessons at the old rate, which would be €304. But really, they should actually give her the remaining 8 lessons, as they were paid for, but getting them to agree may be difficult.

311

jor el wrote: »

She'd be due back whatever balance wasn't used by the lessons at the old rate, which would be €304. But really, they should actually give her the remaining 8 lessons, as they were paid for, but getting them to agree may be difficult.

Sorry jor el ,i skipped through the last few posts:o

Sam Vimes

i'd agree with the majority here. you paid for 20 lessons at a certain amount and they can't come back afterwards and say you're not getting 20 lessons anymore. if it was a voucher with just a money value it would be done in a series of transactions and you couldn't do anything about it but you've already paid for 20 lessons

ABEasy

Get your own back on them, take the 6 lessons and just as you finish the last lesson crash the car......



Only messing, your entitled to what you paid for, don't back down.

Padraig Mor

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Firstly they are skilled and trained.

You're kidding right?! 28% of them can't pass the theory test and 20% the actual driving test!!!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/text/story.asp?j=cwmhkfauidqlmhmh&p=z3yx9xyz&n=23109029

meanmachine3

o.p. i've just skimmed through the replies here, just on the off chance but did the driving school give you a time frame/ expiry date on when you have to use all the 20 lessons?

dollybird09

2qk4u wrote: »

OP, Why did you pay so much for lessons ? The bigger schools are a rip off, there are some very good instructors out there charging between €35 to €40 per hour and even less for blocks of lessons..

The reason I paid the €38/hour is cos I've got a new job and they are giving my a shiny new car when I get my lessons - work paid 70% of lesson charges so I wouldn't be hugely out of pocket but thats not the point - its the fact that they are blatantly trying to rip me off! (The driving school was recommended by my manager)

Someone asked whether it was a voucher.... no it wasn't - it was an upfront payment for 20 lessons.

dollybird09

ABEasy wrote: »

Get your own back on them, take the 6 lessons and just as you finish the last lesson crash the car......

hee hee its funny actually cos i did ask the instructor jokingly before (when I was only a real beginner) what was the story if i crashed... I'd only be liable for 300 of damage regardless of state of the car afterwards....

hmmm that raises an interesting choice!!! to demolish the car for a laugh... or use that 300 to buy myself a marshmallow castle....

Blue_Wolf

Padraig Mor wrote: »

You're kidding right?! 28% of them can't pass the theory test and 20% the actual driving test!!!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/text/story.asp?j=cwmhkfauidqlmhmh&p=z3yx9xyz&n=23109029

Padraig, they are trained and perhaps your point has shown that a minority of them are poorly skilled. My point was covering that majority. Thats like saying doctors are not skilled because 5% of them didnt pass their exams.

Jack Bauer999

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Padraig, they are trained and perhaps your point has shown that a minority of them are poorly skilled. My point was covering that majority. Thats like saying doctors are not skilled because 5% of them didnt pass their exams.

a driving instructors training, costs and effort put into their profession is extremly minimum to that of a doctor's.

at this moment and up to may this year any one can legally operate as a driving instructor in ireland without any formal qualifications.

its actually only from the 1st of may they are being forced to have to pass the RSA examination which consists of
a driving instructors training consists of a theory and driving test similar to the current tests for learner drivers and a practical test of their ability to instruct.

Padraig Mor

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Padraig, they are trained and perhaps your point has shown that a minority of them are poorly skilled. My point was covering that majority. Thats like saying doctors are not skilled because 5% of them didnt pass their exams.

I'd call 28% a pretty large minority! Especially since they can't pass an exam on the ONE SINGLE THING they purport to train others in. And bear in mind that 28% failed - how many nearly failed? How many got 100%? No driving instructor should get anything less than 100% in the (easy) driving theory test. Oh and if a doctor fails their exam, they ain't allowed to practice as a doctor.....


edit: and as JackB points out, many of them have no training whatsoever, other than coughing up a few quid to join some register...

Blue_Wolf

Yes I agree that they should get no less than 100% in the theory. However, the actual driving test itself is practically impossible to get 100%. I do take your point that it's not very comforting to think when your getting lessons whether the examiner is showing you the right way.

Maybe that may explain the high rate of failure and repeats?

Sam Vimes

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Yes I agree that they should get no less than 100% in the theory. However, the actual driving test itself is practically impossible to get 100%.

it's true. i got a grade 2 just because i nearly killed a dog :rolleyes: