Christian marriage questions

postcynical

While marriage is obviously an important social occasion and some form of it exists in many societies, I'm curious to know what the deeper Christian significance of marriage is. As context I'm not yet engaged but God willing, I will be fairly soon. Maybe the pre-marriage course will help me find some answers. Clearly these questions are from a Catholic background but I find lots of brilliant information in this forum from Protestants which helps me understand the Catholic position (and the nature of the differences).

As I understand it, the sacramental aspect of a marriage is just a new baptism. Is it separate from the baptisms of water and confirmation? Is it a new baptism to signify that we will become a new single entity? Or is it like becoming a born again Christian?

Is the marriage blessing separate from the sacrament? For instance you can get cars and animals and religious artefacts blessed in the RC church. Is a marriage blessing of a similar rank? I've heard that divorcees can get a blessing but not get married so I suppose there is some difference.

Is there any Christian significance to the rings especially or are most of these wedding symbols human traditions?

I understand that you need at least two witnesses. Do these have to be Christians? Should they be in a state of grace?

Am I right in thinking that all Christian churches acknowledge all other Christian marriages as equally blessed just as they acknowledge all baptisms? Are there significant differences between some of the protestant marriages (who may not be too into sacraments)?

Thanks for any views. Great forum for ecumenism by the way:)

PDN

postcynical wrote: »

While marriage is obviously an important social occasion and some form of it exists in many societies, I'm curious to know what the deeper Christian significance of marriage is. As context I'm not yet engaged but God willing, I will be fairly soon. Maybe the pre-marriage course will help me find some answers. Clearly these questions are from a Catholic background but I find lots of brilliant information in this forum from Protestants which helps me understand the Catholic position (and the nature of the differences).

As I understand it, the sacramental aspect of a marriage is just a new baptism. Is it separate from the baptisms of water and confirmation? Is it a new baptism to signify that we will become a new single entity? Or is it like becoming a born again Christian?

Is the marriage blessing separate from the sacrament? For instance you can get cars and animals and religious artefacts blessed in the RC church. Is a marriage blessing of a similar rank? I've heard that divorcees can get a blessing but not get married so I suppose there is some difference.

Is there any Christian significance to the rings especially or are most of these wedding symbols human traditions?

I understand that you need at least two witnesses. Do these have to be Christians? Should they be in a state of grace?

Am I right in thinking that all Christian churches acknowledge all other Christian marriages as equally blessed just as they acknowledge all baptisms? Are there significant differences between some of the protestant marriages (who may not be too into sacraments)?

Thanks for any views. Great forum for ecumenism by the way:)

Hi postcynical, and thanks for the nice words about the forum.

As a non-Catholic I don't see marriage as a sacrament. The rings thing, AKAIK, is just tradition, but lots of people do invest them with spiritual significance.

Having two witnesses is certainly a legal requirement in Ireland, but you would probably need to ask your priest if the Church sets standards or requirements for them.

I would certainly view all Christian marriages as being equally valid, but I doubt if all marriages are equally blessed.:)

For me marriage is spiritually important in that it was intended to be a living picture or parable of Christ's love for the Church, and our relationship with God.

philologos

PDN wrote: »

Hi postcynical, and thanks for the nice words about the forum.

As a non-Catholic I don't see marriage as a sacrament. The rings thing, AKAIK, is just tradition, but lots of people do invest them with spiritual significance.

Having two witnesses is certainly a legal requirement in Ireland, but you would probably need to ask your priest if the Church sets standards or requirements for them.

I would certainly view all Christian marriages as being equally valid, but I doubt if all marriages are equally blessed.:)

For me marriage is spiritually important in that it was intended to be a living picture or parable of Christ's love for the Church, and our relationship with God.

PDN's picture is correct for the most part. Just want to catch up on one thing. As for marriage not being a sacrament, this is certainly true of a lot of churches. However in Anglicanism worldwide and in the Church of Ireland. There are 7 sacraments like in Catholicism, 2 major (Baptism, Eucharist) and 5 minor (Ordination, Holy Matrimony (marriage), Confirmation, Absolution / Confession (although not to a priest), and the Anointing of the Sick).

Benincasa

Postcynical: I recommend that you look up what's called the Theology of the Body which will explain some (potentially very surprising) aspects of the catholic view of marriage and sexuality. Google "Theology of the Body" or "Christopher West".

best of luck

Phototoxin

If you are a non catholic you will have to 'endevour to raise you children in the catholic faith'

Also why ask protestants for the catholic perspective? I dont understand. Its not a new baptism but it is the beginning of a new life as a couple so it could be considered similar in that respect.

postcynical

PDN wrote: »

The rings thing, AKAIK, is just tradition, but lots of people do invest them with spiritual significance.

Thanks for the reply. The rings thing was actually the main point because it's pressing but the other aspects are much more interesting!

For me marriage is spiritually important in that it was intended to be a living picture or parable of Christ's love for the Church, and our relationship with God.

Could you expand on this a little bit. I've heard about the Church being Christ's bride (meaning of course the wider church of believers here and not the RCC) but I've never gotten the analogy. I know God relates to us as a father to a child. However the example of selfless love which I use to model divine love is the selfless love of a mother to her children. Apart from being an example of earthly love, how does marriage provide a living picture of our relationship with God?

Thanks if you find the time to reply.

Jakkass wrote: »

PDN's picture is correct for the most part. Just want to catch up on one thing. As for marriage not being a sacrament, this is certainly true of a lot of churches. However in Anglicanism worldwide and in the Church of Ireland. There are 7 sacraments like in Catholicism, 2 major (Baptism, Eucharist) and 5 minor (Ordination, Holy Matrimony (marriage), Confirmation, Absolution / Confession (although not to a priest), and the Anointing of the Sick).

Very interesting. I know the COI is liturgically close to Catholicism, so you can enjoy Mozart in all its dimensions:pac: However, how does this confession work? Is it like an act of perfect contrition to God or must you confess your sins to another person, a spiritual advisor as it were. In Catholicism, it must be a priest who hears your confession because he has the authority to speak for the whole church in granting forgiveness. (I know that, I don't necessarily understand it). I'm sure it's God who forgives but there must be some Catholic mechanism there whereby only a priest can mediate. Would like to hear the COI version please.

Phototoxin wrote: »

Also why ask protestants for the catholic perspective? I dont understand. Its not a new baptism but it is the beginning of a new life as a couple so it could be considered similar in that respect.

I've browsed the board and noticed many helpful posters are Protestant. They've also thought about these things more than I have so might be able to explain them to me. As a Catholic I also have faith in the magesterium of my church and I expect that what I learn or understand will eventually coincide with what they teach. However I can't learn everything the RCC teaches and even if I could, I can't understand it all. Some of the posters here are good teachers/preachers. Anyway the truth is the truth. Catholic views very welcome:)

philologos

postcynical wrote: »

Very interesting. I know the COI is liturgically close to Catholicism, so you can enjoy Mozart in all its dimensions:pac: However, how does this confession work? Is it like an act of perfect contrition to God or must you confess your sins to another person, a spiritual advisor as it were. In Catholicism, it must be a priest who hears your confession because he has the authority to speak for the whole church in granting forgiveness. (I know that, I don't necessarily understand it). I'm sure it's God who forgives but there must be some Catholic mechanism there whereby only a priest can mediate. Would like to hear the COI version please.

Well, Anglicanism is seen as a via media between Protestantism and Catholicism because of the compromise of sorts of Queen Elizabeth, after the atrocious reigns of Queen Mary who was a hardline Catholic and brought the Counter-Reformation to Britain, and King Phillip who was a hardline Protestant who burned many churches to the ground due to having images in them.

In reality however most of the churches in Ireland are low church (Reformed leaning) than high church (Anglo-Catholicism), and are more similar to Protestantism in more ways than in other parts of the Anglican communion, probably due to the impact of Catholicism in Ireland.

Anyhow, onto how absolution works. Mans deeds are seen as being between man and God, one prays to repent of ones sins, however in church a prayer of confession is said, and the priest says a prayer that your sins may be forgiven before God.

However, if confession to a cleric works, I'm sure any pastor in the COI would be glad to in confidence, and again if you have prayer groups fellow Christians can also be helpful, although anonymity cannot be guaranteed. However confession to a pastor is entirely optional, and not really commonplace.

sorella

More widespread than many realise because quiet and hidden. As it should be.

The history of the "modern" idea re confession is interesting.

Never used to be like this; was at first very open and public in Church.

So if someone was committing eg adultery, they would be publically exposed.

And the "sinners" used to be banned from communion and sometimes from Church until the following Easter.

Then they would be re-admitted, wearing a symbolic white garment.

But there were problems of course re major sickness and death in the interim... what do do with post-baptismal sin...

And it was the Irish priests who thus began the system we have now.

It is Scripturally based. "Confess your sins one to another." Differently interpreted in different traditions.
One US Church has a foot washing ceremony before Communion; this is used for "confession"

The Orthodox make it a part of spiritual direction; ALWAYS before Communion.

It is hard to face someone who knows the worst about you; one reason for the screen. But .....

It is the reality of sorrow that matters. The realisation of our sin.

Queries re receiving communion? Can we ever be pure? Thse words comfort... "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and Ii shall be clean"

One of the evangelising teams last summer; demanded to know if I, as a Catholic Nun, believed in confession; they were more subtle than that:)

When I saw what they were trying to say, I was careful.

Their view is that because Jesus died for our sins, we never need to .... apologise.. or confess..

How can we grow else? The term Monastics use is "examination of conscience": time set apart to think back on the day, to see where we have done wrong or failed and to ask forgiveness, and to pray for the strength to do better.

Often hard and heartaching; yes Jesus has atoned; but if we love Him? Then we seek to be as pure as we can be.

Sometimes 'fronting up" to someone wise is a healing and a help.

The word here maybe is humility?

Blessings

Jakkass wrote: »

Well, Anglicanism is seen as a via media between Protestantism and Catholicism because of the compromise of sorts of Queen Elizabeth, after the atrocious reigns of Queen Mary who was a hardline Catholic and brought the Counter-Reformation to Britain, and King Phillip who was a hardline Protestant who burned many churches to the ground due to having images in them.

In reality however most of the churches in Ireland are low church (Reformed leaning) than high church (Anglo-Catholicism), and are more similar to Protestantism in more ways than in other parts of the Anglican communion, probably due to the impact of Catholicism in Ireland.

Anyhow, onto how absolution works. Mans deeds are seen as being between man and God, one prays to repent of ones sins, however in church a prayer of confession is said, and the priest says a prayer that your sins may be forgiven before God.

However, if confession to a cleric works, I'm sure any pastor in the COI would be glad to in confidence, and again if you have prayer groups fellow Christians can also be helpful, although anonymity cannot be guaranteed. However confession to a pastor is entirely optional, and not really commonplace.