Gun Licence

fiestaman

Wel lads, the brother in law is after applying for a licence for my shotgun on 15th november 2008. were living in north kilkenny .He rang the guards today and they gave him some bullsh**t story that it takes longer for a change over of a gun than it does a new one. and not to hold his breath waiting for it, could be well into march when you get it he said. Is there any truth in this or is there anything we can do?? as im dying to get me hands on my new gun, whenever he gets hes licence.

paddy2008

its the same thing and would expect it around six weeks.

snelltrading

use to be six to 8 week but not any more there gone mad on the gunlaw now with all te shootings in the country i have 2 shot guns but when i was getting license last year i sent it in on the first of august and didnt get back till middle of november and i had to hound them but i leave closer to dublin and the sarg in my station is a women and shes a ****

jwshooter

your in gorey so ,heard she is very anti

clivej

I'm living in Kilkenny City and each time it took 3 months to get my license through. Find out when the FO is on duty and call in to see your FO. Phone calls don't always get the correct results, could be any Garda you talk too not the FO.
I think all applications will go through the Super in Kilkenny City station and he will let them stack up until there's a few to be completed, unless he is reminded about them.

But as I say talk to your FO first, not a phone call unless you can talk to the FO over the phone.

Scoogles

fiestaman, you should have left your old gun into a dealer and he would have given you a docket recieving your old f/arm and selling you the new one while then giving your brother in law a docket saying he's buying your old one. Then you could have taken out your new s/gun with an amended certificate on meeting your f/arm officer and your brother in laws application is a different application where he has to wait. My own dealer won't charge for this when your buying the gun off him.

gofaster_s13

I was 18 months waiting for both my shotgun licences

ronnie#1

I'm waiting since the last week of november for my rifle to come through!

annoying when i got the shotgun license in 8 days

andy2854

i cant get my licence:(:(:(

Sparks

How come andy?

lee70

living in callan and i'm the same waiting since last week of november sick of having to go down to the station [never anyone there] so i've giv'en up.

bunny shooter

there seems to be a determined effort to drag out applications at the moment. Probably hoping for this result. People get disillousioned and give up.

Isn't there a 3 month period whereby if you haven't been refused it's considered granted?

My recommendations, contact Super directly and enquire what's happening with your application and explain there is never anyone in your local station when you call.

Just for your information my last application took 6 months. Longest before that was 6 weeks.

It wasn't me!

bunny shooter wrote: »

there seems to be a determined effort to drag out applications at the moment. Probably hoping for this result. People get disillousioned and give up.

Isn't there a 3 month period whereby if you haven't been refused it's considered granted?

My recommendations, contact Super directly and enquire what's happening with your application and explain there is never anyone in your local station when you call.

Just for your information my last application took 6 months. Longest before that was 6 weeks.

Actually, bunny, it's an automatic refusal after three months, not a grant, and as far as I know, that particular mechanism hasn't been commenced yet.

Sparks

Dunno if it's a determined effort BS, but it does seem like everyone's holding off and waiting to see what's in the pipeline with the Misc. Bill.

And yes, there's a 3 month period and if you haven't heard anything three months after you sign the application form, then you are deemed by law to have been refused and notified. Which is one of those annoying little things stuck away in the back of the Criminal Justice Act 2006.
So lee, you've been refused by your local Super. Your next step is to call him up and ask for the reason for your refusal in writing, and then go speak to a solicitor about a district court appointment. At some stage in this process, the Super might go "hang on, I didn't realise it had gone so late, here's the licence", in which case play it smart and take it
Otherwise, it's the DC - and while you can do that without a solicitor, I wouldn't recommend it. You won't need a barrister at all though, that'd be a bit like sandblasting a cream cracker.

bunny shooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Actually, bunny, it's an automatic refusal after three months, not a grant, and as far as I know, that particular mechanism hasn't been commenced yet.

I did include a question mark I wasn't making a statement

It wasn't me!

bunny shooter wrote: »

I did include a question mark I wasn't making a statement

Consider it an answer to your question, even if it does sound kinda pompous on re-reading. Blame college essay-writing.

Sparks

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Actually, bunny, it's an automatic refusal after three months, not a grant, and as far as I know, that particular mechanism hasn't been commenced yet.

No, it's Section 43 of the CJA2006 and that was commenced August 1 2006. You're thinking of Section 30, which was the bit saying you had to get a reply inside of 3 months, which is not commenced, and which section 43 references.

Thing is, because of that reference (it's in part 5 of section 43), I don't know if it would hold up in court; I suspect the automatic notice part would not, but the right of appeal would, as that part of the section doesn't depend on the commencement of section 30.

Sparks

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Blame college essay-writing.

College essays is it?

Feck that for a lark mate, try the attached on for size

bunny shooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Consider it an answer to your question, even if it does sound kinda pompous on re-reading. Blame college essay-writing.

college :eek:, some of us attended "the school of hard knocks" better known as real life :pac:

Wasn't sure if it was granted or refused. I reckon this is not a bad thing as at least they can't "sit on it", as in an application, indefinately.

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

College essays is it?

Feck that for a lark mate, try the attached on for size

Nah, Louis XIV was enough of a pain.

bunny shooter wrote: »

college :eek:, some of us attended "the school of hard knocks" better known as real life :pac:

Wasn't sure if it was granted or refused. I reckon this is not a bad thing as at least they can't "sit on it", as in an application, indefinately.

School of hard knocks? Poor divil.

College = free rifles.

bunny shooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

.............College = free rifles.

And students reckon they have it tough

Sparks

It's not a bad thing BS, but it's not really a good thing either.
For a start, it's not a judicial review, it's an actual court decision to give the licence or not; that overturns Dunne v Donohue which isn't as good as it sounds because it means the Superintendents are no longer the persona designata for licencing as they can be appealed to the court system. Which sounds brilliant until you realise that now every Super asked to licence something they don't know about can just do absolutely nothing and in three months you're deemed refused and notified, and have to go to the DC and it's their problem. And if you've ever been to a DC you'll know they're the wild west of legislation. I'd much rather our sport never ever had to get within an ass's roar of them. There's no published transcripts - hell, there was even a high court case there last month or so about a chap who wanted to bring in a professional stenographer to make a record and the DC Judge wouldn't let him - and the DC Judges are notorious for issuing silly comments and rulings that some of us would think questionable. Like Peter Charleton's ruling on handguns, and like the recent ruling from another DC in Donegal where the judge described the route from Donegal to Cork as travelling through "Bandit country", and like a dozen other examples.

Sparks

And there's the point that with Dunne overturned, the Commissioner can then issue directives instead of guidelines to the Supers; it was only Dunne that prevented that.

Frankly, there's a small ticking bomb in the room and noone seems to have looked at it yet...

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

Dunno if it's a determined effort BS, but it does seem like everyone's holding off and waiting to see what's in the pipeline with the Misc. Bill.

And yes, there's a 3 month period and if you haven't heard anything three months after you sign the application form, then you are deemed by law to have been refused and notified. Which is one of those annoying little things stuck away in the back of the Criminal Justice Act 2006.
So lee, you've been refused by your local Super. Your next step is to call him up and ask for the reason for your refusal in writing, and then go speak to a solicitor about a district court appointment. At some stage in this process, the Super might go "hang on, I didn't realise it had gone so late, here's the licence", in which case play it smart and take it
Otherwise, it's the DC - and while you can do that without a solicitor, I wouldn't recommend it. You won't need a barrister at all though, that'd be a bit like sandblasting a cream cracker.

OP I will just add to Sparks post that tone is very very important. Be overly civil and nice with everyone you deal with, go out of your way to be a nice guy. Don't be smart and act like "Right, see you in court so Mr. Super"

Talk to the Super and ask about your application. Very politely highlight that you are a bit worried because as far as you knew, since the Criminal Justice Act 2006, if a license has not been granted in 3 months it is deemed refused. Ask him straight out if you have been refused (play nice) and if so could he give you the reason in writing. Don't even mention court or anything.

Also from now on log all your contact with the Super and his office. Write everything down.

Yes its frustrating but don't let that show when dealing with the Super.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

It's not a bad thing BS, but it's not really a good thing either..

Like everything to do with firearms licencing in this country.

Sparks

Well, I actually meant more that it's mechanism, not policy. If someone wanted to, they could do real damage with it; if they didn't, they wouldn't bother.

bunny shooter

Yes, but the mechanism could be used to enforce a policy. I hope those words are prophetic

jwshooter

i was talking to garda HQ today there doing licences applications dated 7 jan to day

greenpeter

jwshooter wrote: »

i was talking to garda HQ today there doing licences applications dated 7 jan to day

Thats good going fairplay to them;)

lee70

Sparks. About 6 week ago my FO in callan told me i got the green light from dublin and all she was waiting for was the cert to come through.Now do you know does the firearms cert come from dublin or your super in kilkenny?

Sparks

The cert comes from your super lee, the green light is just your background check.

Hibrion

Ive been waiting since the start of November for a license on a 22 and I already have a larger calibre rifle and a semi auto shotgun which I got in a few weeks:mad: Ive been talking to the FO and he saysits been sent up to HQ and it hasnt been refused but he still hasnt heard anything back. Its getting very frustrating at ths stage:mad:

Are they holding us all off until the new legislation, because that would just be a ridiculous wait:mad:

jwshooter

they were doing 7 jans on monday so some one in your local is Bull Sxxing to you

sfakiaman

Hibrion wrote: »

Ive been waiting since the start of November for a license on a 22 and I already have a larger calibre rifle and a semi auto shotgun which I got in a few weeks:mad: Ive been talking to the FO and he saysits been sent up to HQ and it hasnt been refused but he still hasnt heard anything back. Its getting very frustrating at ths stage:mad:

Last time I was in with the super he found several other applications in my folder. Don't rule out simple clerical error. Best bet is ask the super if he has processed your application, do this politely and you might make progress. Good luck

Hibrion

After much poking around in many places it seems as though my license is signed and waiting to be sent down from HQ this week, they were kind enough to give me the number off the license too so I know its all done.
I frimly believe this is a result of countless enquiries; so keep on politely reminding them!

Sparks

Hibrion wrote: »

KEEP ON HOUNDING THEM FOR IT!

Well, keep on politely but firmly enquiring as to the progress of it

It wasn't me!

Hibrion wrote: »

I frimly believe this is a result of countless enquiries; so KEEP ON HOUNDING THEM FOR IT!

A polite reminder once in a while is a good idea. Hounding them however is not, and you might well find your application gets lost pretty quickly if this is the case. These are civil servants after all, for whom firearms licensing doesn't even register on the list of things they have to do in terms of scale, so when they don't have your vested interest in the matter of your licence, it's entirely possible that it just keeps slipping their minds in light of more important matters, so I would strongly caution against some campaign of pestering your local guards in any case.

Hibrion

Of course thats what I meant:D

kermitpwee

Applied in mid october. still waiting:(

Scoogles

My mates a firearms officer in wicklow and he says that there is no delay at local level, the applications are forwarded to dublin within 10 days of you signing your application and you supplying the relevent papers (permissions and such). he says the section in dublin is all civilianised since michael mcdowell put the guards out of there and onto the street and as a result the civil servants seem to be slower, he also said that there was a time that most firearm officers knew somebody at the other end of the phone in dublin who could pull a stroke for them but not anymore. The delay is in dublin.
I didn't know this but the offices in dublin simply process the application and the printing of the certs. They have no active role in vetting or moving or vetoing the application. the garda station only forward them the yellow application form you sign, nothing else and the super has signed the back of it instructing them to print it. Its the same office that does the amendments as the applications and it apparently going very slow.
However there are some applications that are delayed in the stations when there issues with the applicant or their application but the super apparently bring these for interviews. Thats the story in that part of the country according to him:o

BUACHAILL

I live in Wicklow and I agree with most of what you have just said.

However I found the only hold up I have ever had when getting a licence was with the guards in the station. They had no issue with me as no interview was asked yet the lost my application several times and it took for me to go down and ask the guard involved, " if u dont have my application who has it, I have other firearms, my address is on that form, so if in the wrong hands I could be in touble" I didnt do this in a threathning manner but was genuinely concerned and a lost application of this manner is very unacceptable.

Following day got a call to say they found it again for third time and everything was fine, accepted and all just like that.

I am not anti guard in any sense but these type of silly games ticks me off, maybe mine was a once off !! not convinced by reading other posts though

Scoogles

Don't worry, i'm not sitting here defending anybody. I'm just highlighting the fact that all the delays aren't necessarily in the garda station but they are human, i think, and there are delays outside of their control. can't see why they certs can't be printed at local level if all the crowd in dubllin do is process them. Probably keeping somebody in a job.

BUACHAILL

Didnt realise they were human, since when ? ha

Your right it is stupid how it cant be done at local level !!

I also feel nobody minds a delay, obviously they deal with more important issues on a daily basis but this could be explained to people a little more. Not suggesting they pick up the phone everytime they get a delay thats just impractical but when someone takes time out of there day to come to the station and all they get is sorry nothing yet, dont know where it is, and this happens 4-5 times frustration does set in. Not the guards fault he doesnt want to be dealing with it either.

Again not blaming all guards of this just speaking from my experience, there could be much better ways of doing this but we all know that already