How bad were Leinster at the weekend?

steelbar

What do you think?

Serenity Now!

They were improved, they won the game and they qualified.

If they went all the way (or any Irish team for that matter) and did it in that style, I'm sure nobody would give a stuff.

ERC can take a backseat now as far as I'm concerned. More important matter of the 6N only a week and a bit away.

barnesd

They dominated possession and territory, and any time an Edinburgh player had a sniff of the ball he was gang tackled. They won the game and they qualified for the QF. End of story.

castie

How many minutes is it now without a try?

garbanzo

I guess a win is a win but god they made very hard work of it. I travelled to the WASPS game in Twickenham the week before last. Same story. I guess you have to give them credit for qualifying, and the 'Quins draw - albeit an away gig - gives a serious opportunity to get into the Semi.

This is a rather confused few lines but ironically I think it actually sums up where Leinster are at the mo !

barnesd

castie wrote: »

How many minutes is it now without a try?

It's 3 games.

anonymous_joe

It's the scoring that's the issue.

Technically, they had a few chances, lots of territory, loads of possession...

Only thing missing was tries.

Right now Leinster are the worst good team in Europe. They're still a good team. If (not when) Cheika and Gaffney can get that ridiculously talented back line to play well, they're easily capable of going for the Heineken Cup.

As it stands, they're performances aren't bad, just critically unfocused.

barnesd

One thing that isn't being mentioned enough is Leinster's defence. It's been superb all season. 3 tries only conceded in the HEC group stage. That defence alone gives Leinster a chance in any knockout game and quite frankly I wouldn't give a **** if we won the QF, SF, and final all 3-0.

kmart6

Very!

anonymous_joe

barnesd wrote: »

One thing that isn't being mentioned enough is Leinster's defence. It's been superb all season. 3 tries only conceded in the HEC group stage. That defence alone gives Leinster a chance in any knockout game and quite frankly I wouldn't give a **** if we won the QF, SF, and final all 3-0.

Ah I'd care. I'd take it, but I'd care. ^^

barnesd

anonymous_joe wrote: »

As it stands, they're performances aren't bad, just critically unfocused.

There's a pretty poor gameplan in place. Cheika has talked about using the 6N break to 'reset', maybe I'm looking into things too much but maybe systems had been put in place that couldn't be changed drastically in the midst of 4 or 5 consecutive games. I think the break is going to benefit Leinster as long as Cheika can have an honest look at the performances and can accept what's going wrong.

old boy

they are not a bad side, badly tutored possibly, gaffney needs to be speared then his brains might just start to work, as easy to read as any eos team, i said earlier in the season that no defense coach will loose a nights sleep over gaffneys game plan, i am hoping to be stunned and hopefully shocked as well, me thinks kidney will not put up with that crap for the rest of the season.

barnesd

old boy wrote: »

they are not a bad side, badly tutored possibly, gaffney needs to be speared then his brains might just start to work, as easy to read as any eos team, i said earlier in the season that no defense coach will loose a nights sleep over gaffneys game plan, i am hoping to be stunned and hopefully shocked as well, me thinks kidney will not put up with that crap for the rest of the season.

That's a good point. Everyone is pointing the finger at Gaffney but both Cheika and Kidney are his superiors, and are ultimately in control of their backlines.

Tim Robbins

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Right now Leinster are the worst good team in Europe. They're still a good team. If (not when) Cheika and Gaffney can get that ridiculously talented back line to play well, they're easily capable of going for the Heineken Cup.

You need things like having decent half backs to do that, which we don't right now. Also good set piece and rucking help which we are also struggling at.

fifth

Leinster can be very dangerous and definitely have a talented roster, but we get a bit sluggish at times and there's definitely a noteable drop in pace.

Cheika needs to sit down on his few days off and look at the game just gone. We won, but we should have won by a lot more.

I was happy we qf'ied but I left sunday with an empty heart!

zAbbo

steelbar wrote: »

What do you think?

What do you think?

bleg

i wasn't watching the match (munster took priority) so i can't vote. however looking at the final scoreline it is clear that leinster weren't playing their best. at the same time, a win is a win, leinster are through. they have quality players but are not firing on all cylinders. there needs to be a spark to reignite their season. where it will come from i don't know.

buck65

I saw the highlights (watched Munster instead) and Leinster were a little unlucky not to get 2 tries. Maybe a turn of luck and Leinster can rebound. In fairness their through and this is commendable. Their group was not tough so anything less and Cheika was for the door.
The break will be good for them and get them refocussed. Already looking forward to early April for Munster v Leinster in Thomond.
They can win their QF if they click. Actually they need to win it as the likes of O Driscoll , Horgan , Contepomi , D'arcy et al may never get a better chance at winning the HCup. A triple crown and a ML or 2 is scarcely reward for their efforts.

dub_skav

It was a definite step up for Leinster from their previous performances. They just seem to lack the confidence to finish try-scoring chances. On Sunday in the 1st half it felt like 1 try scored and the flood gates could open, but the longer they went without scoring the more frustrated and nervous they got.

If O'Driscoll had held that pass it could all have been so different. The pass that by the way was thrown by Nacewa who was playing well at 10 until the team started wondering how on earth they could score.

It will take a big step up from Leinster to go further, but as others have said their defence should keep them in touch long enough to give them a good chance, especially if Richards persists with Malone at 10 and Evans at 15.

Mr Fonnen

I think That the problem is essentially a psycological one where Lenster are concerned.The panel itself is undeniably strong there are some very talented players there.What Cheika should probably do is make some adjustments position wise I am sick of seeing Contepomi in center where he tends to underperforn.Returning him to fly half would probably give greater mobility to the midfield and help Lenster return to their traditional running game.Which at this point in the season is probably whats required of them

RugbyFanatic

Do we honestly have to have a new thread having a go at Leinster? Nice title by the way.

IMO they were average but improved. I don't think its time for hysterics though I am sure the pundits having been beating the drums of doom in the papers. It's funny how Leinster got slated for losing away to Castres who were deemed a poor team well quess what they beat Wasps in a must game win for Wasps hardly the journeyman side the papers(and posters here) would have you believe.

steelbar

Do get me wrong, Im glad that they won and qualified for the know out stages, and maybe this year it will be a change in fortunes for them, where usually they fly through the pool stages then sont show up for the knock out.

My biggest concern is how badly they are playing, there seems to be no leadership on the pitch, including O'Driscoll. Its

The 9/10 combination is not working.I wouldnt pick Nacewa on the under 10 C's, with the quality of players outside him, O'Driscoll, Kearney, Fitzgerald, Horgan, D'Arcy when he gets on, and with the back row that is inside him, Rocky, Heaslip and Jennings, why cant they score tries?? What is it, 3 matches in a row now??

Having said that, the quality and speed of the ball been supplied wouldnt be of the highest standard, which gives defences time to press.

Maybe this is down to selection, why is Checka still picking him?

Fair enough,they are defending well and scoring more points that the opposition, which is the aim of the game, and they say a sign of a good team is to win ugly, and we all know who do that so well over the years.

I just hope that it turns around, and they start playing the rugby that they are capable of.

anonymous_joe

Hmmm. I've decided to weigh in an opinion here.

Last Saturday, I was in London for the Wasps game. Wasps are one of hte best English teams of the modern game. It's not for nothing they're the champions over there after all.

Of course, we all know what a season they're having. THere's huge speculation that a host of first-teamers are going to abandon them, add to that, the infamous slow-starters have had one of their worst seasons ever this year, and it's clear to see, things aren't rosy over there. Leinster thrashed them in the RDS this year, in a performance that got noticed a hell of a lot more in England than it did in Ireland.

Having thus seen Leinster thrash Wasps, there was hope that we'd see a comfortable win in Twickenham. Hope, not expectation. You don't go over to the English champions expecting a win often enough. Unsurprisningly, Wasps managed to rouse themselves for the one game that's probably been the most important so far this season - pride matters.

Like a lot of Leinster fans, I was gutted after that match. My head didn't expect a win, but I realised that my heart had. Twickenham full of Leinster fans, great atmosphere, etc, etc. T'would have been romantic in that sense. Leinster's performance was not great - but then, it was far from terrible. Being thrashed would have been terrible - a losing bonus point away to the English champions is not terrible. At worst it's disappointing.

Gerry Thornley wrote last week in an article (and much to my chagrin, I cannot remember upon which day) that we would probably be hailing another brave performance, another great example of doing what needs to be done if that had been Munster.

This season, and the season before that, Munster have been decent - but prior to that they were awful. THey played dull, horrid rugby, vicious, pack-based and territorial. They played like England or Leicester. Now not one person in Ireland minded, because it was getting results, but it sure as hell wasn't good rugby. This season, there have been times (Montauban) where Munster have been shíte. However, when they win a game, people talk about them playing badly and winning, mark of champions, etc, etc.

Leinster beat Edinburgh. They beat their bogey team, and never looked like losing, in the most important game of their season so far. In footballing terms, it would have been winning 1-0 thanks to a scrappy goal, but fúck it lads, a win is a win is a win. Leinster are in the Quarter Finals. All of us are disappointed with the last month or two's performances, but the real problem has been an inability to score tries. Defensively we've been unreal - the team has not been shaken by anyone else, the only thing causing any trouble is that (obviously important) inability to get those tries.

There is now going to be almost 2 months break before the quarter final. In that time, I'm hoping to God, Allah, whoever, that Cheika and co(aching staff) work out how the hell to get the Leinster backline moving.

But do not be foolish enough to write us off yet - Leinster dominated Edinburgh last weekend - a little more composure and a hint of luck would have seen the Edinburgh thrashed. Leinster are without a doubt probably the second best team left in the tournament on paper. If the coaches cop on - they could easily get to a final. Quins away is not an easy game - but it is not an impossible one to win.

So let's hold off on the despair until we lose. :pac:

Crash

Only thing thats really irritating me at the moment (or at least stands out the most) is Nacewa's tackling. The last three matches i've noticed someones constantly having to cover his channel because he's going in around the shoulders and half the time getting quite easily bounced back. Its very VERY irritating to watch.

barnesd

anonymous_joe - Excellent post.

twinytwo

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's the scoring that's the issue.

Technically, they had a few chances, lots of territory, loads of possession...

Only thing missing was tries.

Right now Leinster are the worst good team in Europe. They're still a good team. If (not when) Cheika and Gaffney can get that ridiculously talented back line to play well, they're easily capable of going for the Heineken Cup.

As it stands, they're performances aren't bad, just critically unfocused.

would have to march over the red army to achieve that... dont see it happening anytime soon:D

anonymous_joe

twinytwo wrote: »

would have to march over the red army to achieve that... dont see it happening anytime soon:D

Man for man, neither team is particularly better than the other.

A Leinster team (that'll be the day) would have as good a chance of beating Munster as Munster would have of beating them.

twinytwo

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Man for man, neither team is particularly better than the other.

A Leinster team (that'll be the day) would have as good a chance of beating Munster as Munster would have of beating them.

Im not even going to get into that one:D

kingking85

All Leinster need to do in the quarter final,semi and final is to grind out a win like the one against Edinburgh. How many times have we seen Munster do it and there were no complaints.

Leinster need to move Nacewa out of 10 as he is killing the game. Contipomi and D'arcy in the centre might bring some creativity. Kearney at full back in superb. The pack are performing well and we should be well capable of going to Harlequins and grinding out a win, be it by only 3 points.

We cant always be knocking Leinster, its too easy to support a good team scoring tries, everyone in Leinster needs to get behind their team (including those of you who are wannabe Munster supporters from Leinster)

anonymous_joe

twinytwo wrote: »

Im not even going to get into that one:D

Both sides first 15s are made up entirely of internationals. In many positions Leinster have better players, in others it's Munster.

Serenity Now!

kingking85 wrote: »

Leinster need to move Nacewa out of 10 as he is killing the game.

This mass hysteria/media arse pump about Nacewa being the problem is hilarious.
The problem is at halfback ie. Whitaker although once a great 9 is past it and nowhere near as sharp as he was when Guv Gregan's understudy.
Not the bloody 10 :rolleyes: If he's set a flat backline off, he needs quicker, less-predictable service.
It really is that simple. Nacewa is one of the most talented all round players in all four provinces ffs lol

Podge_irl

Serenity Now! wrote: »

This mass hysteria/media arse pump about Nacewa being the problem is hilarious.
The problem is at halfback ie. Whitaker although once a great 9 is past it and nowhere near as sharp as he was when Guv Gregan's understudy.
Not the bloody 10 :rolleyes: If he's set a flat backline off, he needs quicker, less-predictable service.
It really is that simple. Nacewa is one of the most talented all round players in all four provinces ffs lol

Whitaker is the main problem, but Nacewa has still dont nothing to convince me that he is the solution at fly-half either. He hasn't looked comfortable there at all since coming back from injury. Talented he may be, but he can't control a game to save his life.

corny

Serenity Now! wrote: »

This mass hysteria/media arse pump about Nacewa being the problem is hilarious.
The problem is at halfback ie. Whitaker although once a great 9 is past it and nowhere near as sharp as he was when Guv Gregan's understudy.
Not the bloody 10 :rolleyes: If he's set a flat backline off, he needs quicker, less-predictable service.
It really is that simple. Nacewa is one of the most talented all round players in all four provinces ffs lol

Think you're right to a certain extent. If Stringer was a Leinsterman and 25 again in this team not many would be criticising Nacewa but i still think his and the teams best interest would be served by moving him out the field. Contepomi is a better 10.

anonymous_joe

corny wrote: »

Think you're right to a certain extent. If Stringer was a Leinsterman and 25 again in this team not many would be criticising Nacewa but i still think his and the teams best interest would be served by moving him out the field. Contepomi is a better 10.

Keogh at 9 and a deeper back line?

yogidc26

corny wrote: »

Think you're right to a certain extent. If Stringer was a Leinsterman and 25 again in this team not many would be criticising Nacewa but i still think his and the teams best interest would be served by moving him out the field. Contepomi is a better 10.

Contepomi is the much better 10 you can even see from the few kicks in the game they were a lot better than Necewa id like to see him paly at 12 and the backline would move a lot better

corny

yogidc26 wrote: »

Contepomi is the much better 10 you can even see from the few kicks in the game they were a lot better than Necewa id like to see him paly at 12 and the backline would move a lot better

It bogles the mind how obvious the problems at Leinster are and how easy it should be to fix them yet Cheika thinks different. How i don't know.