Foreign Divorce and the Domicile thing!

rf19

Hi,
Do any of you guys have any idea what kind of info one would need to submit to the General Registrar Office to prove domicile?

I was born in the UK, moved to the U.S. in 97, settled in NY in 98 and married a U.S. citizen (originally from Missouri but also living in NY) in Ireland in 98.

Things didn't go quite according to plan and we ended up getting divorced in NY in 2002. Now I'm planning to do it all again!

I'm still living in NY, but recently got a note for the GRO saying I need to prove that either myself or the ex where domiciled in NY at the time of divorce proceedings, in order to get the green light for being remarried in Ireland.

So now I'm trying to figure out what I can send them to prove something that seems to be somewhat subjective.

I did some poking around on the net and came across the following:

"In a case where neither spouse is domiciled in the State, a divorce shall be recognised if, although not granted in the country where either spouse is domiciled, it is recognised in the country or countries where the spouses are domiciled."

Which makes me think that an alternative is to prove that the NY divorce is valid in the UK and/or Missouri and then I'm home dry.

I saw another post in this forum where a person had a similar issue and it looked like they opted to get married else where. I'm thinking this is what we'll probably end up doing, but just curious if any one out there has any insight?

Cheers!

prettylilgirl

Hi there,
I'm going through a similar situation myself. Married & divorce in Canada. Now I'm due to get married in Ireland in May and they've literally just told me that my divorce may not be recognised under Irish law. They want me to provide a birth certificate for my ex-husband as proof of domicile for him (he's Canadian).
What I want to know is: if my Canadian divorce is not recognised in Ireland, is the marriage? 'Cause if it's not then there's no problem right...?
Also, this might be of use to you: http://www.diydivorceireland.com/ForeignDivorce.htm

LR55

Hi RF19

Just found this thread and started anothe one there this evening!

My situation is similar to what you seemed to be going thru back in 09...here is my thread below...

Any help would be appreciated!

Thank you.

Hi,



"Can someone please shed some light on my situation?

Basically I was married and divorced in New York.
I wanted to get married here in Dublin and was told that because I could not prove domicile in NY, the divorce is not recognised in Ireland.
I have been told by my solicitor that I would be required to go thru the courts to do this.
On the other hand I have been informed by person who works in the Civil Registration Office that he has seen on many occasions a person going back to where he or she got divorced, getting married again and the new marriage certificate superseding the previous divorce.

I'm finding it hard to get a definitive answer on it.

Any help or information would be greatly appreciated!"

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

LR55

Fred Swanson wrote: »

You would be better off getting married where the divorce is recognised.

Thanks Fred,
What leads you to this conclusion?
As it stands I have not been able to prove domicile in the U.S. At the time of getting divorced.
So the other option is go thru the court system here in Ireland.

Thanks again.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Peregrinus

Going back to NY will allow LR55 to celebrate his second marriage, but it won't result in a marriage entitled (or, at least, definitely entitled) to legal and administrative recognition in Ireland. Which, if he and his second partner are settled in Ireland, is a bit of an issue.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Peregrinus

Because he hasn't established that he is validly (in Irish law) divorced from his first spouse. If a marriage would be bigamous if celebrated in Ireland, you can't avoid the problem by celebrating the marriage somewhere else, and then asking the Irish authorities to give effect to it. Otherwise we'd all be at it.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

LR55

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I see he married in Ireland, and divorced in New York. I now understand his problem.

I was thinking he was married and divorced in New York which would be a different story.

Thank you Fred and Peregrinus-

Just to clarify I was married in NY and divorced there also.
Does this change your take on the situation?
I accept that if I married in Ireland it would be obviously very different but that isn't the case and I've been told by someone in the civil registration office he has seen many other people go back to where they originally married and divorced and remarry there.

Peregrinus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not really. As a matter of Irish law, the validity of his NY divorce depends on where he and his first spouse are domiciled, not on where their marriage was celebrated.

Peregrinus

LR55 wrote: »

Just to clarify I was married in NY and divorced there also.
Does this change your take on the situation?

No.

LR55 wrote: »

I accept that if I married in Ireland it would be obviously very different but that isn't the case and I've been told by someone in the civil registration office he has seen many other people go back to where they originally married and divorced and remarry there.

You can do that, and it's no business of the Irish registration authorities, and they won't object or interfere in any way.

There's no problem unless the validity or efficacy of your second marriage is ever called into question in Ireland. And, most likely, it never will be. If it is, odds are that it will be in the context of (a) the breakdown of your second marriage (which of course won't break down, but it might) or (b) inheritance disputes or other disputes about entitlements which arise on your death, or on the death of your second spouse (which of course won't arise, but they might).

Odds are, there won't be a problem. But if there is a problem, it could be a distressing one for those affected. So if you go down this route, you would want to go into it with your eyes open, and maybe take advice about how to arrange your affairs, make wills, etc, to address this risk as best you can, and minimise the chances of any grief arising.

(Incidentally, if you do go down this route, you don't have to go back to NY to remarry. On the assumption that you were resident in NY when you divorced there, the UK will recognise your divorce (UK recognition of foreign divorces is based on residence, not domicile) so you could get married in NI or Britain, which presumably would be easier on your friends and families.)

LR55

Peregrinus wrote: »

No.


You can do that, and it's no business of the Irish registration authorities, and they won't object or interfere in any way.

There's no problem unless the validity or efficacy of your second marriage is ever called into question in Ireland. And, most likely, it never will be. If it is, odds are that it will be in the context of (a) the breakdown of your second marriage (which of course won't break down, but it might) or (b) inheritance disputes or other disputes about entitlements which arise on your death, or on the death of your second spouse (which of course won't arise, but they might).

Odds are, there won't be a problem. But if there is a problem, it could be a distressing one for those affected. So if you go down this route, you would want to go into it with your eyes open, and maybe take advice about how to arrange your affairs, make wills, etc, to address this risk as best you can, and minimise the chances of any grief arising.

(Incidentally, if you do go down this route, you don't have to go back to NY to remarry. On the assumption that you were resident in NY when you divorced there, the UK will recognise your divorce (UK recognition of foreign divorces is based on residence, not domicile) so you could get married in NI or Britain, which presumably would be easier on your friends and families.)

Ok. Thank you for the advice. I'll look into going down the route of going though the courts. It's better to deal with this now I feel.