UPC switching off analogue in april ???

curryman

My brother in law just moved into a new house and ordered the basic analogue. Only to be told by the sales rep that analogue will be gone by the end of april and after that he will need to change to the digital package. Yet they still went ahead and installed just the analogue. Anyone else heard if analogue is going so soon.

tallaghtfornia

Analogue will be eventually phased out but heard nothing about April – UPCs main problem in upgrading would be the “Old School” people who are used to the Analogue and would not be willing to change then there are the other people who will not change for other reasons which we are not aloud to discuss :rolleyes:. But then again they have done it in Cork so can’t see why they won’t do it in Dublin.

Antenna

tallaghtfornia wrote: »

But then again they have done it in Cork so can’t see why they won’t do it in Dublin.

Major difference. In Cork, unlike Dublin and the other cities, the Analogue service on Cork cable (apart from RTE,TG4,TV3) was all scrambled, so subscribers had needed a set-top box anyway for the analogue service. It was just a matter of replacing one STB with another.

GerardKeating

curryman wrote: »

My brother in law just moved into a new house and ordered the basic analogue. Only to be told by the sales rep that analogue will be gone by the end of april and after that he will need to change to the digital package. Yet they still went ahead and installed just the analogue. Anyone else heard if analogue is going so soon.

But the cheapest digital package is cheaper than analogue ???

Alun

Maybe the rep meant that they'd be phasing out the selling of the analogue only package from April, but that the analogue signal would remain for the time being at least. This, in theory at least, would coincide with them getting the new viewing cards out to defeat the 'dodgy-boxes', the owners of which usually signed up for the analogue only package solely to keep their connections alive. Given the pricing structure now, actively signing up for an analogue only package makes no sense, financial or otherwise.

Mossy Monk

tallaghtfornia wrote: »

Analogue will be eventually phased out but heard nothing about April – UPCs main problem in upgrading would be the “Old School” people who are used to the Analogue and would not be willing to change

The time will have to come where it will be a case of change or buy a stb for DTT.

Manc-Red

People have been subscribing in huge numbers to the basic analogue feed for the sole reason of then putting a Bogey Dodgy Box on to the connection for Free Digital Premium Services for the past 3 years now.

Think the penney dropped with NTL/Chorus at where they may be going wrong

astrofool

Currently have 7 Tv's in the house, all wired in using NTL (1 on digi), does this mean each tv will need a box, and have to pay extra per month for it?

Manc-Red

Your supposed to pay for extra points in your home anyway but not a lot of people know this - If Analogue is swiched off those points wont work for you unless you have a Digital Set-Top Box at each point.

You could have a Video Sender with Receivers at each point from your current Digital Box - but that would mean you could only watch the channel that is on your Set-Top Box around your home at the same time.

7 different Digiboxes would be very expensive subscription wise m8 - think its about €8 pm per additional box.

Plus I doubt the feed would handle even 3 boxes off the main feed into your home.

watty

They need the analogue channel space. Each one is at least 3 HD channels, 45Mbps of Broadband or 15 regular Digital channels.

tallaghtfornia

People have been subscribing in huge numbers to the basic analogue feed for the sole reason of then putting a Bogey Dodgy Box on to the connection for Free Digital Premium Services for the past 3 years now.

Think the penney dropped with NTL/Chorus at where they may be going wrong

There will be skips full of these crap "Boxes" When UPC do there card swap dying to see the look on peoples faces

Manc-Red

HD is a must as I'm sure you know well Watty. It would be nice to have it on Cable here in Dublin. 1w on Sat is so good.

Mind-blowing pictures.

tallaghtfornia

Just got SKY HD Installed .. and ditched UPC have to say have a 50inch plasma and HD is the Dogs well worth the extra cash

Manc-Red

tallaghtfornia wrote: »

There will be skips full of these crap "Boxes" When UPC do there card swap dying to see the look on peoples faces

Once its Nag 3 you'll be smiling I guarantee. Nag 2 you wont

tallaghtfornia

Once its Nag 3 you'll be smiling I guarantee. Nag 2 you wont

Don't care realy not a techy person but there will be a lot of sad faces when they do knock them off pitty the dealers who sold them the boxes in the first place they will be swarmed with phone calls - Happy with my SKY HD now and would not swap it for the world

astrofool

Manc-Red wrote: »

Your supposed to pay for extra points in your home anyway but not a lot of people know this - If Analogue is swiched off those points wont work for you unless you have a Digital Set-Top Box at each point.

NTL won't support any faults in extra points not installed by them, but you can happily add as many as you want to a house. The only reason I'm with NTL over Sky is the fact that we can have all the extra points, if we end up having to pay extra for each point, it's far easier to go to Sky.

watty

I've 16 sat points. You only pay for boxes that receive pay channels on Satellite, otherwise they do free channels. UPC has no free channels.

bullpost

watty wrote: »

I've 16 sat points. You only pay for boxes that receive pay channels on Satellite, otherwise they do free channels. UPC has no free channels.

How does that work? What did you need for you 16 points?

barnicles

watty wrote: »

I've 16 sat points. You only pay for boxes that receive pay channels on Satellite, otherwise they do free channels. UPC has no free channels.

16 :eek:

towger

watty wrote: »

I've 16 sat points. You only pay for boxes that receive pay channels on Satellite, otherwise they do free channels. UPC has no free channels.

one point for every channel ?

zilog_jones

Manc-Red wrote: »

People have been subscribing in huge numbers to the basic analogue feed for the sole reason of then putting a Bogey Dodgy Box on to the connection for Free Digital Premium Services for the past 3 years now.

Dodgy boxes have been around much longer than that - dodgy GI/Jerrold boxes were readily available for the scrambled analogue channels back in the day. AFAIK all you needed was an EPROM programmer.

I think getting rid of the analogue service is the only logical step forward, though as others have said it'll be a bollox for us who still use it for all the other TVs besides the one in the sitting room, because we'll either have to pay more for extra STBs or seek alternatives (analogue or digital terrestrial, FTA sat/FreeSat, or just screw 'em and go to Sky).

icdg

Heard nothing about April either. I don't think Dublin is ready for DSO just yet.

It will be a big job to switch off the analogue - particularly in Dublin where practically every house uses analouge in some way, even if its' to run a second TV while the main TV uses digital. I would almost certainly say there will be a massive sales push for digital in the three months or so before DSO - a "get digital before the deadline or else" campaign.

milltown

Manc-Red wrote: »

Think the penney dropped with NTL/Chorus at where they may be going wrong

This actually came up in the pub (where else? :rolleyes:) the other week. Given that basic digital is now cheaper than basic analogue, the fact that "crooks" enjoying all the channels for the price of a basic sub most likely won't automatically start paying for all the premium channels on digital, and the likelihood of a mass exodus to Sky or FTA, it would seem to be a gamble of sorts for UPC.

I know friends of friends who will just jump to Sky HD when the party ends and I'd be fairly sure they'd be a representative sample group.

Mods: If this flies too close to the dodgy box discussion embargo, feel free to edit/delete. I just thought the business aspect was interesting.

dub45

Swithcing off analogue will presumably mean the loss of the bbc radio channels? AFAIK you can get them from the digital box but that means not being able to get them on an fm receiver anymore? Very bad news indeed. Only reason I keep UPC - I abhor them as a company and think that we should be fearing their impending monopoly.

Dardania

dub45 wrote: »

... UPC - I abhor them as a company and think that we should be fearing their impending monopoly.

On that topic I think that they should be forced, at an EU level, to make their signal decodeable by any STB/Digital TV that can accept a CAM slot for the UPC subsription card, rather than the current policy of requiring a UPC STB/DVR.

Dardania

Dardania wrote: »

On that topic I think that they should be forced, at an EU level, to make their signal decodeable by any STB/Digital TV that can accept a CAM slot for the UPC subsription card, rather than the current policy of requiring a UPC STB/DVR.

The thing is, is that policy legally enforceable? They say they don't allow equipment other than their own to connect to the service. But they haven't tested and approved every television out there so technically by using the analogue service directly to your TV you've hooked up non approved equipment. Just a thought...

paulm17781

Karsini wrote: »

The thing is, is that policy legally enforceable? They say they don't allow equipment other than their own to connect to the service. But they haven't tested and approved every television out there so technically by using the analogue service directly to your TV you've hooked up non approved equipment. Just a thought...

Analogue and digital work in radically different ways.

Antenna

Manc-Red wrote: »

People have been subscribing in huge numbers to the basic analogue feed for the sole reason of then putting a Bogey Dodgy Box on to the connection for Free Digital Premium Services for the past 3 years now.

Think the penney dropped with NTL/Chorus at where they may be going wrong

The people still using just analogue would be mostly older/elderly people, who are happy with the channels they have now, still use a VHS VCR, but would feel daunted by new digital (STB/DVR) technology, and don't miss channels they never had.

The above point is non-sensical, there was nothing stopping the people mentioned by you from subscribing to the basic digital service (if its now cheaper than analogue), and perhaps using the legal box on a 2nd TV.
Obviously they would hide the 'dodgy box' when a legal box is being delivered.

Manc-Red

People who have purchased these boxes from there Auntie's Uncle's Pet Dog - who cant even tune these boxes are not always clued up to the fact that going Digital is a actually cheaper than having an Analogue sub...

There are a high percentage of these folk around...

Non sensical - I think not lol

Solair

If UPC were knowingly allowing premium services to be received for free, or colluded, even indirectly with this they would find that they'd very soon have no rights to carry premium services at all as it would violate the terms of carriage which demand that they be encrypted. Many of the basic channels may even require encryption for carriage.

So, I seriously doubt this is the case.

I mean, why would Sky, Virgin Media (formerly flextech) or Setanta allow their services to be made available for free to potentially tens of thousands of households when they are encrypted and quite expensive on satellite.

Manc-Red

UPC pays set fees for the various Premium services from Sports to Movies etc...

They actually lose money on some of them..... - they are put on the bouquet to pull in potential subs initally.

That wont effect the payment to the Broadcasters - therefore the Broadcaster wont care once there own Encryption isn't compromised (sky & setanta using nds for example).

They may however put some pressure on the Cable company to upgrade or change there encryption system to keep it from effecting subscriptions on satellite. (which apparently it was starting to do here in Ire).

Solair

Manc-Red wrote: »

UPC pays set fees for the various Premium services from Sports to Movies etc...

They actually lose money on some of them..... - they are put on the bouquet to pull in potential subs initally.

That wont effect the payment to the Broadcasters - therefore the Broadcaster wont care once there own Encryption isn't compromised (sky & setanta using nds for example).

They may however put some pressure on the Cable company to upgrade or change there encryption system to keep it from effecting subscriptions on satellite. (which apparently it was starting to do here in Ire).

I have read conditions of carriage for some of these stations before and an acceptable form of encryption is usually required in the contract.
Nagra 1 is effectively useless at this stage.

Manc-Red

Solair wrote: »

I have read conditions of carriage for some of these stations before and an acceptable form of encryption is usually required in the contract.
Nagra 1 is effectively useless at this stage.

Agreed - been compromised since '99!!!:eek:

paulm17781

paulm17781 wrote: »

Analogue and digital work in radically different ways.

I know that. Here's what I found in the T&Cs. While it obviously disallows dodgyboxes it doesn't seem to be clear on CAMs, you are still paying for the service but just not using their box.

9.8 Subject to this Agreement, and except as per Section 20, you may use your own Customer-Provided Apparatus in conjunction with the Equipment but we do not warrant that the Equipment is compatible with or will work with customer-provided apparatus. We will not be liable in any way for any loss or damage which is caused to your Customer-Provided Apparatus or any data stored thereon arising as a result of its use in conjunction with our Equipment.

20.2 The purchase, installation, sale and/or use of unauthorised set top boxes and other such devices to gain access to UPC's services without paying the relevant fees are illegal and in breach of intellectual property laws, the Broadcasting Acts, the Conditional Access Regulations and all other relevant legislation. Persons found to possess such devices for such use are open to both criminal and civil legal action. In addition to any other rights and remedies we may have against you, the use of such devices and any unauthorised reception by you of any channels or programmes, or your failure to report the unauthorised reception of any channels or programmes immediately to us, will result in our suspending the Services or terminating the Agreement and retaining the whole or any part of any deposit.

"Equipment" means all equipment and replacements thereof supplied by us or on our behalf to you in connection with provision of any of the Services provided to you under this Agreement including (without limitation) any cable modem, cable, ducts or software.

Rosser

Watty must be on his holidays 'cause this thread has locked written all over it

That said I agree 100% that TV's that accept a CAM should be allowed, would make the sitting room way neater!

Rosser

Rosser wrote: »

Watty must be on his holidays 'cause this thread has locked written all over it

That said I agree 100% that TV's that accept a fully paid card should be allowed.

I don't intend to be treading on thin ice, apologies if I am.

Dardania

Rosser wrote: »

Watty must be on his holidays 'cause this thread has locked written all over it

That said I agree 100% that TV's that accept a CAM should be allowed, would make the sitting room way neater!

And more energy efficient...

NewDubliner

milltown wrote: »

the likelihood of a mass exodus to Sky or FTA, it would seem to be a gamble of sorts for UPC.

With a deep recession and pay-cuts approaching, one of the first things that gets reviewed in domestic budgets is pay-tv.

Tread carefully, UPC.

watty

dub45 wrote: »

Swithcing off analogue will presumably mean the loss of the bbc radio channels? AFAIK you can get them from the digital box but that means not being able to get them on an fm receiver anymore? Very bad news indeed. Only reason I keep UPC - I abhor them as a company and think that we should be fearing their impending monopoly.

Not at all.

They can easily keep FM Radio and switch off Analogue TV.

They are less of an monopoly than cable was 20 years ago.

watty

Dardania wrote: »

On that topic I think that they should be forced, at an EU level, to make their signal decodeable by any STB/Digital TV that can accept a CAM slot for the UPC subsription card, rather than the current policy of requiring a UPC STB/DVR.

No. Or maybe only a basic pack. To use cable more efficiently and offer more services and more flexibly you need 2way communication and switched video. It's not feasible to support 3rd party boxes or Receive only systems except for a core package.

Capt'n Midnight

Dardania wrote: »

On that topic I think that they should be forced, at an EU level, to make their signal decodeable by any STB/Digital TV that can accept a CAM slot for the UPC subsription card, rather than the current policy of requiring a UPC STB/DVR.

not a chance
SKY have had hardware lock in since the went digital

What I would like and I think an earlier post suggested it is decoding of non-encrypted channels so you could have a second TV off a non-NTL box but only to watch the basic channels. Then again the want to charge per point so probably they won' t be interested.

rubadub

tallaghtfornia wrote: »

UPCs main problem in upgrading would be the “Old School” people who are used to the Analogue and would not be willing to change then there are the other people who will not change for other reasons which we are not aloud to discuss :rolleyes:

Dodgy box owners will of course change!

GerardKeating wrote: »

But the cheapest digital package is cheaper than analogue ???

Exactly, so now they will have 2 boxes, dodgy and legit and the whole thing is cheaper. (but one will be knocked out soon)

Manc-Red wrote: »

Your supposed to pay for extra points in your home anyway but not a lot of people know this -

Who told you that? If UPC install the points they charge for the install of each analogue point and (usually) a monthly sub on each analogue point too. But you are inferring that if people put their own point in they should pay, I have never heard of this before. (i.e. you said people do not know this, but if they had points it would be clearly on the bill). When I got mine installed all we paid was the installation, the deal was we got free monthly subs to the other 3 points in the house.

Manc-Red wrote: »

7 different Digiboxes would be very expensive subscription wise m8 - think its about €8 pm per additional box.

That is an increase of €24 per month for me! they can go f*ck themselves if they expect me to pay that, and many others who have even more DIY installs will feel the same.

tallaghtfornia wrote: »

There will be skips full of these crap "Boxes" When UPC do there card swap dying to see the look on peoples faces

Skips could alsol be full of their own UPC boxes when people cancel in droves. Most people have nothing but disdain for them, only reason many do use them is because of the dodgy box. Knock them out and people will be well pissed off.

Antenna wrote: »

The people still using just analogue would be mostly older/elderly people, who are happy with the channels they have now, still use a VHS VCR, but would feel daunted by new digital (STB/DVR) technology, and don't miss channels they never had.

I am not elderly and am happy with the channels in my bedroom, not enough to pay €8 a month. Also many people have only 1 scart, or even if they have 2 many have it hooked up to a dvd and VHS or console. Some people I know have no scart!

Solair

I'd say you'll see a lot of people switching from Analogue UPC to Boxer (Digital Terrestrial TV)'s basic line up if/when the analogue shut-down happens in Dublin etc.

Cork was a totally different scenario as they've had a totally encrypted system requiring the dreaded 'black box' jerrold decoders since sometime in the 1980s. So it was really just a case of a decoder swap and a massive improvement in picture quality, sound quality and channel line up there. Cork Multichannel had done this nasty deed and forced decoders on the city's population a long time ago. For the rest of Ireland's cable customers it's the very first time they'll require decoders for ALL viewing.

When decoders were introduced in Cork, it was HIGHLY unpopular. I have no doubt it will be the same in Dublin. Although it might be a softer blow now that there is a DVR, as the main gripe in Cork was that you needed a seperate decoder for your VCR if you wanted to record one channel and watch another. And lots of people did actually pay the extra box fee just to do that!

As for the EU requiring CAM compatibility, I think this is likely only to ever apply to Digital Terrestrial TV. Cable is a closed system by nature and not a public service really.

Satellite broadcasters like Sky could however, eventually have to provide CAM access if they were ever to be included in a general broadcasting service bill at some stage in the future.

watty

This why Sky has the "other channels". Legally you have to be able to tune FTA content on a Satellite payTV box. A German PayTV satellite company lost a case.

Cable is indeed a closed subscription only system, so they can use whatever kind of system they like. I tested a Motorola Cable TV receiver that only works connected to the Broadband and only if it's the same ISP as provides the TV. No card used.

who is this

Solair wrote: »

As for the EU requiring CAM compatibility, I think this is likely only to ever apply to Digital Terrestrial TV. Cable is a closed system by nature and not a public service really.

I agree. Though I would prefer CAMs be usable on cable (for example, to use on a laptop) but I'm not sure I would support forcing it. Though it would seem analogous to bygone restrictions on what you can connect to the phone network - again closed system, and at the time they were not seen as vital the way they are now.

If Boxer don't though, ooooh, whole other story. If they don't I strongly support their being forced to accept CAMs

goone

if you bought a cablebox from any of the internet company's ,,
and the system goes down,,
there will be nothing you can do,,
as they are all sold as free to air boxes,,

also if you have put software on your box it will also be void,,

so either way just remember if you do decide to buy,,
there is no guarantee they will stay on...

G-unit10

tallaghtfornia wrote: »

There will be skips full of these crap "Boxes" When UPC do there card swap dying to see the look on peoples faces

What a sad individual. I'm not one of them, but who cares if people are ripping-off this incompetent crowd who can't even protect their premium tv system from simple misuse. Even grannies are at it.

goone

true enough