Carpenters, How much would you expect?

Niamho!

Hi all,

Have a chap from the job putting up a fence and putting a kennel together for me soon. No idea what to pay him... a few people have just suggested i get him a bottle of something he drinks or something like that. i'm not sure if that's scabby. he's not a stranger. he's a sound enough chap who i get on with.
putting up the fence just basically involves him drilling stakes into the fence, digging them into the ground and then maybe driving a few nails into the wall on either end...

So, how much would you expect to get paid for doing that?

pipsqueak

tbh i would just send him a quick text asking him how much, say you need to go to the bank and just say "whats the damage?

Mrs OBumble

Niamho! wrote: »

Hi all,

Have a chap from the job putting up a fence and putting a kennel together for me soon. No idea what to pay him... a few people have just suggested i get him a bottle of something he drinks or something like that. i'm not sure if that's scabby. he's not a stranger. he's a sound enough chap who i get on with.
putting up the fence just basically involves him drilling stakes into the fence, digging them into the ground and then maybe driving a few nails into the wall on either end...

So, how much would you expect to get paid for doing that?

Yes, just a bottle is scabby.

If he bringing his own tools, or using yours? Are you buying the materials, or does he have to go chasing for them?

If his own, then I'd expect to pay at least E-15/hour for the time it takes him. Or 20 if you want it to go through the books so you get a proper receipt.

YMMV.

the_syco

If it's a small job, and he uses your tools, your wood, and it only takes a day, maybe 50 and a bottle of something? If it's his wood and tools, a bottle of drink may be an insult.

SheenaD

a bottle :eek: i think that looks really really scabby !!

if it was me i would offer him €50.00 friend or not he is doing a job for u and if he wasnt you would have to pay someone alot more to do it !!

mikemac

Give a decent rate.
€15 per hour is cheap for a tradesman so that's a fair price for this task

JonnyC

mikemac wrote: »

Give a decent rate.
€15 per hour is cheap for a tradesman so that's a fair price for this task

It maybe cheap but i think about 12 -13 an hour is fair. The Celtic tiger is long gone now and the fantasy money tradesmen are charging should be a thing of the past.
Every notice why do plumbers,carpenters,stone masons.... all have to have a 08 4 x 4. We have been ripped of for too long.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

50 euro for the days work? Even in this economic climate you wouldn't get someone to work for that money.

These people are skilled, so they should be paid accordingly. A bit less than a year or two ago. Not all tradesmen are driving 08 4X4 so stop talking crap. They charge what idiots pay. If people shop around they will get someone a little cheaper. The work is not simple, not anybody can do it, so if you want it done right pay the man a proper wage... christ you people are so stingy.

How big is the fence, how big is the kennel? If you give him a bottle of something you will be insulting him.

SheenaD

i actually 100 percent agree with xavier i mean friend or not .. how would you feel if some offered you a bottle for your hard work .. maybe put yourself in his postion ? especially at times like this ??

Its very stingy.

JonnyC

Heath Zealous Cigar wrote: »

50 euro for the days work? Even in this economic climate you wouldn't get someone to work for that money.

These people are skilled, so they should be paid accordingly. A bit less than a year or two ago. Not all tradesmen are driving 08 4X4 so stop talking crap. They charge what idiots pay. If people shop around they will get someone a little cheaper. The work is not simple, not anybody can do it, so if you want it done right pay the man a proper wage... christ you people are so stingy.

How big is the fence, how big is the kennel? If you give him a bottle of something you will be insulting him.

From my experience most tradesmen are driving the 4 x 4 and why should i be paying for it.

"They charge what idiots pay". What a stupid statement. It is all ablout supply and demand.
Tradesmen are a dime a dozen these days so the punter decides the rate plain and simple. Would not pay them over 13 euro an hour.

dlambirl

A bottle of drink is a nice gesture but not for a job like that. Maybe cash and the bottle but a bottle on its own i think belittles him.

As for tradesmen being paid too much - i say thats rubbish. It takes alot of money to get started up working as a chippy for incidence. They have to buy their own tools, chisels, etc and most of the people working in sites over the past few years had to commute long distances to get there - hense big diesel bill and wear and tear on a car or van. Granted things got a little over the top at a stage but thats well being realised now and most tradesmen arent charging extortinate rates.

People who arent familiar with building supplies and materials dont realise how dear the materials are. Thats another big reason why jobs got so dear during the last few years - the cost of materials went up. Copper for example near doubled in price.

SheenaD

I just think that a bottle of drink is very insulting !! and extremely stingy..

even if he is doing a favour as a friend. if it was me personally i would pay him €100.00 no less i know that for a fact you most likely end up giving him the bottle !

JonnyC

dlambirl wrote: »

A bottle of drink is a nice gesture but not for a job like that. Maybe cash and the bottle but a bottle on its own i think belittles him.

As for tradesmen being paid too much - i say thats rubbish. It takes alot of money to get started up working as a chippy for incidence. They have to buy their own tools, chisels, etc and most of the people working in sites over the past few years had to commute long distances to get there - hense big diesel bill and wear and tear on a car or van. Granted things got a little over the top at a stage but thats well being realised now and most tradesmen arent charging extortinate rates.

People who arent familiar with building supplies and materials dont realise how dear the materials are. Thats another big reason why jobs got so dear during the last few years - the cost of materials went up. Copper for example near doubled in price.

90% of my driving is coming and going to work. I have a big petrol bill and the car is loosing valud by the day. Should my employer be compensating me for this going by your logic? I say if i asked my boss for that it would def be the joke in the canteen for the week.

Micky Dolenz

JonnyC wrote: »

It maybe cheap but i think about 12 -13 an hour is fair. The Celtic tiger is long gone now and the fantasy money tradesmen are charging should be a thing of the past.
Every notice why do plumbers,carpenters,stone masons.... all have to have a 08 4 x 4. We have been ripped of for too long.

You are clearly ill informed. I know many tradespeople and very few have nice new 4 x 4. Your posts reek with bitterness, in a trade you couldn't hack or what?

mikemac

JonnyC wrote: »

90% of my driving is coming and going to work. I have a big petrol bill and the car is loosing valud by the day. Should my employer be compensating me for this going by your logic? I say if i asked my boss for that it would def be the joke in the canteen for the week.

Many (most?) tradesmen are self-employed.
So if they make a bad decision and blow 50k on a 4x4 it's them and only them who will suffer.

It's a competitive environment, if you're bitter about the tradesmen you've used you are free to never use them again.
There are good ones out there and yes, €13 per hour might not cover all their costs. You can ask for that rate and they might say yes or no. You're the customer, you decide who you want to work for you

helimachoptor

Op I had a friend come and replace a radiator for me one evening, ended up being more complicated than he (or I) thought and instead of being there for 20 mins doing it, ended up being there for about 90 mins. He said 50 was fair, I gave him 100.

For a few reasons.

1) If he was actually charging me as a customer, i'd have call out fee, hourly rate etc

2) I know he's not going to try rip me off.

3)If i had a plumbing emergency and I needed him over straightaway he'd come.

If I gave him a bottle of wine or something, he'd tell me to go f**k myself friend or not!

helimachoptor

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You are clearly ill informed. I know many tradespeople and very few have nice new 4 x 4. Your posts reek with bitterness, in a trade you couldn't hack or what?

My friend was driving a 95 punto... He got a 02 seat Inca with loads of internal stuff for hanging equipment for 1200 (had about 20k on the clock) off a guy who had loads of sparks working for him who he had to let go.

Micky Dolenz

helimachoptor wrote: »

If I gave him a bottle of wine or something, he'd tell me to go f**k myself friend or not!

thats funny.

I do however think you paid him too much, esp if he is a mate. €50 was fair. How much of the 90 mins were ye chatting?

You paid him €33 per half hour cash in hand probably. Thats loads.

Wanna be my friend?;)

NinjaTruncs

Like others have said pay him a fair rate. if this work wasn't skilled you could do it yourself but you cannot(this apparent since you want to build the fence and then plant it into the ground). I’d say 15-20 euro an hour. Also if you give him a small payment don't expect any after care from him if something was to go wrong, or you ever needed his help in an emergency

As per the all trades people drive 4x4's, a lot of them do, but they will have lots of tools that need to be carried around for jobs. They can't really pick and choose what they carry. Imagine you hire a do a job and halfway through that job you ask him to do something else, he replies sorry I left that tool at home, couldn't fit it into my Micra this morning.

Carpenter

JonnyC wrote: »

It maybe cheap but i think about 12 -13 an hour is fair. The Celtic tiger is long gone now and the fantasy money tradesmen are charging should be a thing of the past.
Every notice why do plumbers,carpenters,stone masons.... all have to have a 08 4 x 4. We have been ripped of for too long.

You think if you do not know what you are talking about why talk
It is not our fault that you were ripped off (if you were)
And by the way not all tradesmen have a 4x4 in fact very few have (well out off the tradesmen I know and that is a lot I can tell you)
O and by the way we are all loosing cash on our cars not only you .
Rant over

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

JonnyC wrote: »

From my experience most tradesmen are driving the 4 x 4 and why should i be paying for it.

"They charge what idiots pay". What a stupid statement. It is all ablout supply and demand.
Tradesmen are a dime a dozen these days so the punter decides the rate plain and simple. Would not pay them over 13 euro an hour.

It seems that you haven't a clue what you are talking about, that is fair enough, I can try remove some of that ignorance for you.

I don't know one tradesman that drives a 4X4, I lived in a village that a lot of people were self employed tradesmen. They did have the VW caddy, the Ford transit, but no €50K 4 X 4. I do see a lot of foremen or bosses of contracting companies with them. That is a differant kettle of fish though.

You are a begrudger, "why should I pay for their 4 X 4..." Rediculous statement. If you get a job done, do you tell them that you won't pay what they charge? You could always go for the people with 1 or 2 years of their apprentiship done, pay them less, but I guarantee you the job won't be done right. You get what you pay for, and if you're going to pay that little for someone, goodluck to ya, you need to get a handyman, that's a fair price for a handyman.

Two friends of mine laid a floor for a man. They agreed on a price prior to commencing the job. When he was finished the man said he wasn't paying full price, it was too expensive. My mate said "no problems" and took his tools out of his van again, he began to take the floor back up and told the man, "if you're not prepared to pay me the price that we agreed on, I will take up the part of the floor you refuse to pay for" The man paid him in full.

You can come accross some tradesmen that charge quite a lot for some simple jobs. You should shop around like everything else, and get a price that suits you. Of course, you will be laughed at for offering 13 euro an hour... That's one of the funniest things I have heard today

aoibhebree

If its such an easy job, maybe try and do it yourself!! :rolleyes: My bro's a carpenter, he usually charges 22euro an hour when doing jobs, 18euro an hour if its for friends or family (though they usually insist on rounding it up.)

dlambirl

JonnyC wrote: »

90% of my driving is coming and going to work. I have a big petrol bill and the car is loosing valud by the day. Should my employer be compensating me for this going by your logic? I say if i asked my boss for that it would def be the joke in the canteen for the week.

I meant that a majority of many tradesmen wages gp towards tools and petrol. If they didnt get good money for the job the petrol/diesel bill - it could be better in some cases to be on the dole with no big petrol bill.

doolox

A tradesman dealing with a customer directly had to deal with customer liabilty, especially true of electricians and plumbers if they cause fire or flood with a mistake. They have to rectify it and pay for it.
They have to source materials and get the right ones on site, this takes time knowledge and money.
They also have to provide for their own pensions, health cover, sick days holidays etc if they are sole traders. Also an accountant and bank charges etc before they see any money for themselves.
A lot of these things are covered by the boss when a person is employed directly by someone in a factory.
Even the act of getting paid is not guaranteed when self employed and chasing money takes time.....and costs money!
Comparing wages in a factory to hourly rates charged by self employed tradesmen is not accurate. The next time you get a bill from a garage look at the labour charge and it will be typically €50 per hour. The mechanic would be lucky to get €25 per hour but the boss must pay administration, heating and lighting, VAT, rent on the building,training and development, safety costs,equipment and tools, insurance etc.......
All this stuff costs money.

mountainyman

All that stuff might cost money but the boss will just haev to take less profit.

jaggiebunnet

is it just me or is being lost on people that the OP will be paying cash in hand / no taxman and so any sympathy on how little the carpenter gets paid goes flying out the window.

helimachoptor

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

thats funny.

I do however think you paid him too much, esp if he is a mate. €50 was fair. How much of the 90 mins were ye chatting?

You paid him €33 per half hour cash in hand probably. Thats loads.

Wanna be my friend?;)

None at all, I was in playing my xbox in a different room!

ThermalBER GUY

Johnny C is jealous. Probbably cant hold a screwdriver unless it has Vodka in ti. Mickey Dolenz has a great voice! Now Ima a believer!

Niamho!

Forgot about this thread....

Well the chap that was doing it for me told me it'd only take him about half an hour. Didn't get him to do it in the end. got someone else.
And for the record i thoguht the bottle was stingy aswell. that was just suggestions from others. So relax the khacks there some of ya. Thats all.

doolox

Ireland is a capitalist society.
We believe in the "Free Market".
Prices for tradesmen reflect the cost of doing business in a costly, litigous country with many legal and customary demands which push expected standards up.
While times were good and building people were in great demand they pushed the prices they charge up to what the market would bear.
It is not their fault if some people "expect" to pay a certain price and then find their delusions dashed by a higher than expected bill.
Many times office workers with a high education expect to be paid more than "mere" tradesmen but this class distinction belongs in the past.It galls them to have to pay a tradesman as much as or often more than they earn in the same time.
Many contemporary tradesmen are often as well or better educated than their office working brethern and the modern building work environment demands a high degree of judgement, keeping of records, organisation etc that were previously held out by middle class office workers as their exclusive preserve and the reason they were paid better than "mere" manual workers.
In order to avoid "rip off" get an agreed price first or at least a reasonably narrow ballpark figure, define and agree the work to be done and goals to be achieved, if necessary write it down. If possible stick to tasks to be done and achieved, avoid paying by the hour as this leads to slow work and featherbedding. Get a quote from at least 3 different tradesmen and ask them justify any unusual cost. Be specific and closely define what has to be done and get advise from another expert if possible.
It should be noted that any building work demands a high degree of physical endurance and stamina which was once very common in our agricultural, manual labour past. These qualities are now scarce in our automated, machine oriented present times, many younger people of urban background are not capable of working in manual occupations which demand high stamina and endurance, while many skills, once rare, such as clerical and computer skills have become as common as air. This reflects in the cost we pay for such labour in the free market, sometimes it works for us, sometime it works against us but it is what defines us as a society.