Under taking by a Garda jeep with trailer ...In a bus lane

Saab Ed

Driving to Dublin yesterday on the Navan road. Just between the Trim road junction and Clonee where the road turns into a dual carraige way , about ten of us had the pleasure of been under taken by 2 guards in a marked Toyota Landcruiser complete with trailer and boat on it....in the bus lane. No blue lights and breaking the speed limit, this I know as I was doing the limit along with all the other cars (presumeably because we all spotted the Garda car). Good for the goose and all that.

biko

Ok thx

Cookie_Monster

In a hurry to catch dinner perhaps?

TheNog

Saab Ed wrote: »

Driving to Dublin yesterday on the Navan road. Just between the Trim road junction and Clonee where the road turns into a dual carraige way , about ten of us had the pleasure of been under taken by 2 guards in a marked Toyota Landcruiser complete with trailer and boat on it....in the bus lane. No blue lights and breaking the speed limit, this I know as I was doing the limit along with all the other cars (presumeably because we all spotted the Garda car). Good for the goose and all that.

hhmmm okay there is a few problems with your point of view

- All Emergency Services are permitted to drive in bus lanes
- All Emergency Services are exempt from most normal trafic laws re: speeding (although are advised to keep within the speed limits) and not all situations require blue lights
- technically speaking you were not undertaken under Road Traffic Law cos the bus lane is off limits to you. In order for you to be undertaken you would need to be able to drive in two lanes. If the Garda driver could be prosecuted for undertaking well then every bus driver could be prosecuted for it too.

So where does the goose come into it? :pac::pac:

Saab Ed

TheNog wrote: »

hhmmm okay there is a few problems with your point of view

- All Emergency Services are permitted to drive in bus lanes
- All Emergency Services are exempt from most normal trafic laws re: speeding (although are advised to keep within the speed limits) and not all situations require blue lights
- technically speaking you were not undertaken under Road Traffic Law cos the bus lane is off limits to you. In order for you to be undertaken you would need to be able to drive in two lanes. If the Garda driver could be prosecuted for undertaking well then every bus driver could be prosecuted for it too.

So where does the goose come into it? :pac::pac:

So I am to assume that you think thats fine then. Ok good but you know and I know what was going on here. Respect is earned and when you have to listen to Guards not getting the help and feedback from the public they need, well.... There was no problem for him to que at the next set of traffic lights. Thanks for setting the standard.

TheNog

Saab Ed wrote: »

So I am to assume that you think thats fine then. Ok good but you know and I know what was going on here. Respect is earned and when you have to listen to Guards not getting the help and feedback from the public they need, well.... There was no problem for him to que at the next set of traffic lights. Thanks for setting the standard.

only setting you right is all. So what is your beef anyway?

Is it the fact they drove in the buslane?

or

Is it cos they broke the speed limit?

or

Is it cos you couldnt do either?

messrs

did you not know that the 'wonderful' guards in this country are exempt from all rules!!

(i dont have a issue with guards, i swear!)

Mena

Saab Ed wrote: »

So I am to assume that you think thats fine then. Ok good but you know and I know what was going on here. Respect is earned and when you have to listen to Guards not getting the help and feedback from the public they need, well.... There was no problem for him to que at the next set of traffic lights. Thanks for setting the standard.

For me the kicker here is

TheNog wrote:

- All Emergency Services are exempt from most normal trafic laws re: speeding (although are advised to keep within the speed limits) and not all situations require blue lights

Bottom line is, you have no idea where he was going or for what reason, yet you're immediately jumping to the conclusion that "the man" is screwing you by not waiting his turn in a traffic queue.

I've worked along side emergency services personal before, granted not in Ireland and it was many, many years ago, and I can tell you I do not envy them their job. Give them the leeway they need so that one day perhaps they'll be able to rescue you from some unimaginable situation.

My 2c.

Saab Ed

I cant murder anybody either. Hey I can think of lots of things I cant do.
Im sure you are correct in what you are saying but c,mon...

Gary ITR

Saab Ed wrote: »

Im sure you are correct in what you are saying but c,mon...

c'mon what?

Tabnabs

It was probably the Garda underwater unit heading off to look for a dead body somewhere, why don't you cut them some slack eh?

ninty9er

You're completely unaware of where they were going or what they were doing, yet you feel the need to come on here and Garda bash.

They are exempt from the Road Traffic Act, you are not, get over it.:rolleyes:

TheNog

Saab Ed wrote: »

Im sure you are correct in what you are saying but c,mon...

I am correct in what Im saying (not being big headed) but the question I have for you is "would you have posted on boards if it was an ambulance?". Im guessing the answer is no.

Not your fault and I have seen alot worse posted here but some people reckon they are experts on the Gardai.



I do realise that some things seen are questionable.

Saab Ed

TheNog wrote: »

I am correct in what Im saying (not being big headed) but the question I have for you is "would you have posted on boards if it was an ambulance?". Im guessing the answer is no.

Not your fault and I have seen alot worse posted here but some people reckon they are experts on the Gardai.



I do realise that some things seen are questionable.

Look im not trying to be any expert on the Guards and I have no hang ups at all with them. I have no points and no outstanding issues with guards. If it was an ambulance then its probably fair to say no I wouldnt have made an issue of it. But ( and I do say but ) you have to admit from joe publics point of view that the situation just looked like an abuse of power. Keep up the good work to all the guards.

Marcus.Aurelius

OP, what would you have preferred them to do? Blue flashing lights and overtaking you in the overtaking lane?

I mean, c'mon, why do that when the buslane is empty and they have emergency psv status? What particular facet about their behaviour is it that you take issue with?

TheNog

Saab Ed wrote: »

If it was an ambulance then its probably fair to say no I wouldnt have made an issue of it.

Saab Ed wrote: »

the situation just looked like an abuse of power.

Saab Ed wrote: »

I have no hang ups at all with them.

So if it was an ambulance you would have no problem but seeing it was the guards you consider it an abuse of power and you have no hang ups.

Can you not see the contradiction in the first two quotes?

Saab Ed

Saab Ed wrote: »

Look im not trying to be any expert on the Guards and I have no hang ups at all with them. I have no points and no outstanding issues with guards. If it was an ambulance then its probably fair to say no I wouldnt have made an issue of it. But ( and I do say but ) you have to admit from joe publics point of view that the situation just looked like an abuse of power. Keep up the good work to all the guards.

Its not an abuse of power, as said before the Gardai are allowed to use the bus lane in the course of their duty regardless of the situation. Its like saying the that a bus driver is abusing his power by driving in the bus lane.

Saab Ed

TheNog wrote: »

I am correct in what Im saying (not being big headed) but the question I have for you is "would you have posted on boards if it was an ambulance?". Im guessing the answer is no.

Not your fault and I have seen alot worse posted here but some people reckon they are experts on the Gardai.



I do realise that some things seen are questionable.

TheNog wrote: »

So if it was an ambulance you would have no problem but seeing it was the guards you consider it an abuse of power and you have no hang ups.

Can you not see the contradiction in the first two quotes?

Yes but my point is public perception. And look im sorry but im going to nail this down , you know and I know he was just over taking , no emergency , no covert under cover operation in action here. There was no hurry before or after the bus lane. So call it as you want.

Seth Brundle

TheNog wrote: »

- technically speaking you were not undertaken under Road Traffic Law cos the bus lane is off limits to you. In order for you to be undertaken you would need to be able to drive in two lanes. If the Garda driver could be prosecuted for undertaking well then every bus driver could be prosecuted for it too.

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely, nobody is allowed (emergency services excepted) to pass on the left unless traffic is moving in queues - that would legally prevent busses from going faster than moving traffic. However, its not practical so is not enforced.

Saab Ed wrote: »

you know and I know he was just over taking , no emergency , no covert under cover operation in action here. There was no hurry before or after the bus lane. So call it as you want.

In fairness, nobody here saw them so we cannot tell, we would be making assumptions, just like yourself!

Celticfire

I'm no expert on the water unit but I would Imagine that the brunt of their work is body recovery or searching for evidence.

I would also Imagine that getting to a scene under blue lights would be fairly troublesome while towing a trailer behind a jeep as it would involve a fair bit of weaving in and out of traffic.

So I would presume that unless life was in immediate danger the best way to travel would be to use the most direct route (bus lanes) and to get there as quickly and safely as possible. Blue lights and sirens make people do the dumbest things.

You have no Idea where they were going or what they were doing.

TheNog

kbannon wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely, nobody is allowed (emergency services excepted) to pass on the left unless traffic is moving in queues - that would legally prevent busses from going faster than moving traffic. However, its not practical so is not enforced.

Im finding it difficult to get this down and for it to make sense so I'll start off with the normal incident of undertaking -

Usually done on 2 lane road with both lanes open to the public or 1 lane with a hard shoulder remembering it is illegal to even drive on the hard shoulder

In this case we have 2 lanes with 1 lane for normal traffic and 1 lane for buses etc. so the lanes are not interchangeable for normal traffic so therefore there should be no risk of joe public driving into the bus lane and causing a collision which is why it was made an offence to undertake.

Does that make any sense?

Goddamn you Kbannon and your thought provoking questions!!!

TheNog

Celticfire wrote: »

I'm no expert on the water unit but I would Imagine that the brunt of their work is body recovery or searching for evidence.

I would also Imagine that getting to a scene under blue lights would be fairly troublesome while towing a trailer behind a jeep as it would involve a fair bit of weaving in and out of traffic.

So I would presume that unless life was in immediate danger the best way to travel would be to use the most direct route (bus lanes) and to get there as quickly and safely as possible. Blue lights and sirens make people do the dumbest things.

Never even thought of that myself.

Finally someone with common sense

Gary ITR

TheNog wrote: »

Im finding it difficult to get this down and for it to make sense so I'll start off with the normal incident of undertaking -

Usually done on 2 lane road with both lanes open to the public or 1 lane with a hard shoulder remembering it is illegal to even drive on the hard shoulder

In this case we have 2 lanes with 1 lane for normal traffic and 1 lane for buses etc. so the lanes are not interchangeable for normal traffic so therefore there should be no risk of joe public driving into the bus lane and causing a collision which is why it was made an offence to undertake.

Does that make any sense?

Goddamn you Kbannon and your thought provoking questions!!!

No no, you made sense. Good explanation.

Seth Brundle

TheNog wrote: »

Im finding it difficult to get this down and for it to make sense so I'll start off with the normal incident of undertaking -

Usually done on 2 lane road with both lanes open to the public or 1 lane with a hard shoulder remembering it is illegal to even drive on the hard shoulder

In this case we have 2 lanes with 1 lane for normal traffic and 1 lane for buses etc. so the lanes are not interchangeable for normal traffic so therefore there should be no risk of joe public driving into the bus lane and causing a collision which is why it was made an offence to undertake.

Does that make any sense?

I agree but AFAIK that is the common sense approach. The actual legislation IIRC reads differently possibly because it doesn't really factor in bus lanes etc.

TheNog wrote: »

Goddamn you Kbannon and your thought provoking questions!!!

I do try hard!

Berty

I was getting my lunch in a shop today and a Garda was two people ahead of me in the queue. After reading this thread I thought I should approach the situation head on.

I told the Garda they had no right to be in front of me. Of course the Garda moved out of the way because I pay her wages.

Jeez, give me strength

Lock her up MOD!

Well done Nog.

Gary ITR

Also aren't the 24hr bus lanes only 24hr to facilitate the emergency services

Mitch Connor

TheNog wrote: »

hhmmm okay there is a few problems with your point of view

- All Emergency Services are permitted to drive in bus lanes
- All Emergency Services are exempt from most normal trafic laws re: speeding (although are advised to keep within the speed limits) and not all situations require blue lights
- technically speaking you were not undertaken under Road Traffic Law cos the bus lane is off limits to you. In order for you to be undertaken you would need to be able to drive in two lanes. If the Garda driver could be prosecuted for undertaking well then every bus driver could be prosecuted for it too.

So where does the goose come into it? :pac::pac:

I thought all bus lanes were free for use on sundays.

TheNog

kbannon wrote: »

I agree but AFAIK that is the common sense approach. The actual legislation IIRC reads differently possibly because it doesn't really factor in bus lanes etc.

Probably does but I havent read it in a while. Not the most sexy piece of legislation :cool:

But sure hey most of is open to interpretation and hopefully applied using some sort discretion.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I thought all bus lanes were free for use on sundays.

Some are, some not. There should be a sign outlining times etc at the start of every bus lane.

stealthyspeeder

TheNog wrote: »

Probably does but I havent read it in a while. Not the most sexy piece of legislation :cool:

But sure hey most of is open to interpretation and hopefully applied using some sort discretion.




Some are, some not. There should be a sign outlining times etc at the start of every bus lane.

SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! the people who drive on the N32 will hear you and I wont be able to shoot down the out of operation buslane passing dozens of people flashing their lights at me!

Berty

TheNog wrote: »

Some are, some not. There should be a sign outlining times etc at the start of every bus lane.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! the people who drive on the N32 will hear you and I wont be able to shoot down the out of operation buslane passing dozens of people flashing their lights at me!

Some bright spark in Limerick decided the Dublin road bus lane was 24 hours a day Mon - Sat and I used to get flashed, beeped and even blocked by cars when I used this on Sundays. Then one day I was driving down and the signs had been changed to Mon - Sun 24 hours.

We dont have 24 hours bus's to start off with and then at the other side of town some other bright spark contracted a company to build a bus corridor on the Condell road which is not on the bus corridor route. All bus's head in the Ennis road because thats where the bus stops are. So now we have a 24 hour a day 365 day a year bus lane with no bus's.

The odd taxi and Garda might use it but thats it. :mad: BTW its the busiest road in the city.

Seth Brundle

K-Jet wrote: »

Also aren't the 24hr bus lanes only 24hr to facilitate the emergency services

I don't think so as before they became bus-lanes, they were generally hard shoulders (emergency lanes)

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I thought all bus lanes were free for use on sundays.

There are usually two types - those that are 7am to 7pm (possibly excluding 10am to 12 noon) and those that are in operation 24/7. In the case of Dublin, the former ones tend to be closer to the city whereas the 24/7 lanes tend to be on the main dual carriageways out of the city.

Gary ITR

kbannon wrote: »

I don't think so as before they became bus-lanes, they were generally hard shoulders (emergency lanes)

There are more and more 24hr bus lanes popping up around dublin. Take the Kileen/nangor rd. I'm sure I read somewhere that the reason for this was to leave a clear route for the emergency services

daveharnett

TheNog wrote: »

Some are, some not. There should be a sign outlining times etc at the start of every bus lane.

Which I find pretty hard to read while driving. Given that the drive-on-the-left rule requires us to use them where possible, the opening hours really ought to be more visible.

robbie99

When I first started driving it used to piss me off the amount of cars that used the bus lane heading down past Heuston station to skip the early morning traffic queues. Once or twice I saw a Merc or BMW do this I thought oh that's it, it's the wealthy drivers who break the rules because paying the fine is not a bother for them and they see it as a small fee they sometimes have to pay for the priviledge. Then I noticed that actually most were in fact Fords or Toyota Camrys and were actually Garda cars. That's when I decided to keep an eye out for these and learn how to recognise them.

Anyway, it's establised that Gardaí are exempt from most traffic laws including use of bus lanes.

At first I was pissed off at what I saw as Garda abuse of this priviledge but I don't mind at all now because even in a non-emergency situation like for example having to appear at the four courts on the quays, the gardai are still being paid by you and I. If the Gardaí are stuck in traffic it'll end up costing us the taxpayer more in Garda overtime.

Stark

Saab Ed wrote: »

Yes but my point is public perception. And look im sorry but im going to nail this down , you know and I know he was just over taking , no emergency , no covert under cover operation in action here. There was no hurry before or after the bus lane. So call it as you want.

How do you know there was no emergency? Putting on the blue lights and sirens can cause some drivers to panic so the emergency services generally only use them when they need to break red lights and the like.

TheNog

WTF is going on here. Everyone is a frac'ing Garda lover now.

Last year there was Garda bashing all over the place and now ye all love them :rolleyes:

OP Im switching sides to be with ye.

/sings - You'll never walk alone

Gary ITR

Go back over to your Emergency Services forum ya scummy rat!

That better? :pac:







I'm currently waiting on my medical date btw

Berty

Stop me speeding up your neck of the woods and I might have a different attitude you P*G!

Stop me p*ssing on a shop door out of my head on vodka and I will abuse you if it makes you feel better.*









*btw I dont drink

Saab Ed

TheNog wrote: »

WTF is going on here. Everyone is a frac'ing Garda lover now.

Last year there was Garda bashing all over the place and now ye all love them :rolleyes:

OP Im switching sides to be with ye.

/sings - You'll walk alone

Oh no ,thats not gonna work. I aint puttin my head up again

congo_90

House wrote: »

OP, what would you have preferred them to do? Blue flashing lights and overtaking you in the overtaking lane?

I mean, c'mon, why do that when the buslane is empty and they have emergency psv status? What particular facet about their behaviour is it that you take issue with?

Whats emergency psv status? some of here aren't in the gards
Are they not excempt only on urgent emergencys? I've seen gards casually pull up at lights, break em and almost cause accidents (not garda bashing)

to back up the OP, Why could the gards not stay in the normal lane like normal? especially if they're towing a boat then its hardly an emergency.

A quick Q for the op are you sure it wasnt the coast guard? I regularly see em floating around

Seth Brundle

TheNog wrote: »

WTF is going on here. Everyone is a frac'ing Garda lover now.

Last year there was Garda bashing all over the place and now ye all love them :rolleyes:

OP Im switching sides to be with ye.

/sings - You'll walk alone

Aah shut up - we pay your wages so we can say what we want!

Mellor

daveharnett wrote: »

Which I find pretty hard to read while driving. Given that the drive-on-the-left rule requires us to use them where possible, the opening hours really ought to be more visible.

I'm not trying to be rude or funny.
But if you have trouble reading them you probably need glasses to drive.

congo_90 wrote: »

Whats emergency psv status? some of here aren't in the gards
Are they not excempt only on urgent emergencys? I've seen gards casually pull up at lights, break em and almost cause accidents (not garda bashing)

I wouldn't say so, guards often patrol in cars. Its pointless to expect them to sit in traffic when not on an emergency, as its a waste of resources (read taxpayers money). I'd be more annoyed if I saw the guards not using the bus lane. (i'm refering to heavy traffic before somebody gets smart )

to back up the OP, Why could the gards not stay in the normal lane like normal? especially if they're towing a boat then its hardly an emergency.

How does the fact that they are towing a boat mean its not an emergency. They are hardly trying to get a bit of fishing in on the lunch break

Steve

congo_90 wrote: »

Whats emergency psv status? some of here aren't in the gards
Are they not excempt only on urgent emergencys? I've seen gards casually pull up at lights, break em and almost cause accidents (not garda bashing)

Afaik, all Gardaí are exempt no matter what they are driving as long as it is in the course of their duty.
Other vehicles are specifically mentioned including ambulances, fire brigade, coast guard, mountain rescue etc..

zod

OP you will get no sympathy here .. this forum is full of

1. Excellent drivers who never speed.
2. Believe that every speed sign is perfectly justified for the road it's on ( and anyway who are YOU to question it ?)
3. Drivers who believe that all law enforcement agencies are above the law, in all circumstances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWFMZ-B9uno

Saab Ed

Watch out. There are so many guards in here you might get arrested for having an opinion. At least I know why I was wrong now.

bazjnr

Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. but it would be nice if people would learn the rules of the road in this country before they go mouthing off about the Gardai- if bitching about the guards were an olympic event Ireland would certainly be in the medals.:mad:

FX Meister

Saab Ed wrote: »

Yes but my point is public perception. And look im sorry but im going to nail this down , you know and I know he was just over taking , no emergency , no covert under cover operation in action here. There was no hurry before or after the bus lane. So call it as you want.

So he got his job done more efficiently. Bid deal. You would probably be moaning if he stayed in traffic, was submitting overtime and your tax was paying for it.

pythag

how many times do we see normal cars take the bus lane skipping ques and generally taking the mick.. they are the ones that should be shouted at..

when a government vehicle (or is that pronounced Veh-e-kel) :-) does it why are we getting upset.. they were ust doing their job..

ok some guards can be a bit awkward or worse, there is allways some one thats a twat.., but for the most part they do a hard nasty job and get sod all thanks for it..

and especially for those subaqua guys... they have a orrible cold messy job, imagine having to spend a few hours underwater in muck searching for a dead body, by feel, because there is zero visability....

not my idea of a fun time..

and also for my 2c... Re bus lanes, motorbikes should be legally allowed to use them too. that might save some lives in the future..


pythag

old_aussie

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

In a hurry to catch dinner perhaps?

They were on the way to get pork ribs and doughnuts, what else

CharlieCroker

very helpful for a first post!!

old_aussie

Hi,

Glad you liked my helpful first post, long time lurker.

We don't have the "left lane" hangup in Oz.

Overtake where and when you can safely.

Oz is a big country.