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Irsh Conquest Question

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  • 25-01-2009 7:50pm
    #1
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭


    This is a genuine question - I dont want any personal opinions on either side - on how they deserved or did not etc etc etc
    Just an answer and any discussion which is Not inflamatory etc
    Thank you
    Between say 1169 and 1922 how many people were killed as a result, directly or by a large part of actions of, the English (whatever you want to refer to them as)

    More recent numbers can be added if you have an idea based on all of irish history (ie - the six counties)


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    #2
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    conchubhar1 wrote: »
    This is a genuine question - I dont want any personal opinions on either side - on how they deserved or did not etc etc etc

    Just an answer and any discussion which is Not inflamatory etc

    Thank you

    Between say 1169 and 1922 how many people were killed as a result, directly or by a large part of actions of, the English (whatever you want to refer to them as)


    Difficult to say. If you include economic warfare you could include the 1845-1851 famine. Over a million dead and a million emigrated. There was a lot of other famines on a smaller scale down through the ages.
    In open conflict there wasn't that many deaths since fear and lack of arms was generally enough to stop any warfare.
    3 million in famines?
    80k in warfare?


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    #3
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    well what about the rebellions in the 16th century - reports of a third of munster and more in the northern rebellion

    and the more recent 1798, 1803, 1916 and civil war


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    #4
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    conchubhar1 wrote: »
    This is a genuine question - I dont want any personal opinions on either side - on how they deserved or did not etc etc etc

    Just an answer and any discussion which is Not inflamatory etc

    Thank you

    Between say 1169 and 1922 how many people were killed as a result, directly or by a large part of actions of, the English (whatever you want to refer to them as)

    FFS Talk about a Partionist mindset. It appears to you that the people in the six counties 1922 onwards don't count. But then I suppose those murdered by SAS/UVF in the Dublin bombings or the other bombings and shootings in Monaghan, Cavan, Louth etc wouldn't count either.


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    #5
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    actualy

    I know only all to well those numbers and therfore , its not that they dont count


    therefore not part of my question - so butt out or make a point related to the question


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    #6
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    conchubhar1 wrote: »
    actualy

    I know only all to well those numbers and therfore , its not that they dont count


    therefore not part of my question - so butt out or make a point related to the question
    " make a point related to the question ". That's exactly what I did.


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    #7
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    I should change the question - to avoid any confusion
    ok, good point - but not relevant to my question


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    #8
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    conchubhar1 wrote: »
    well what about the rebellions in the 16th century - reports of a third of munster and more in the northern rebellion

    and the more recent 1798, 1803, 1916 and civil war



    Starvation was the most powerful weapon used against the us.


    1798 between 15k and 30k soldiers and civilians on the irish side

    1916 about 300 to 500 rebels and civilians

    War of independence about 1500 killed from both sides

    Civil War slightly more than the war of independence


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    #9
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Dob74 wrote: »
    Starvation was the most powerful weapon used against us.

    Depends how far in history you want to look back. So many Irish people have Norman/British ancestery that you may discover your "us" was actually "them".


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    #10
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    donaghs wrote: »
    Depends how far in history you want to look back. So many Irish people have Norman/British ancestery that you may discover your "us" was actually "them".


    There are alot of people in ireland with british ancestery, generelly in the east of the country. But it is from the 16 century that your race was marked by your relgion. Catholics where driven off the best land "to hell or to connaught", this land was given to soldiers in the british army. Their ancestors owned this land in the main til the land acts of the late 18 hundreds. This caused ireland to be the poorest country in europe. There where alot of british government reports pointing this out before the famine. Unfortunately nothing was done and one million straved. Most irish people are still afraid to admit that their ancestors where broke peasants. I have no hang ups in saying my ancestors where the poorest of the poor. So was JFK's, Ronald Reagan and many others.


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    #11
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Dob74 wrote: »
    Difficult to say. If you include economic warfare you could include the 1845-1851 famine.
    No you couldn't. But if you could, why only that famine? Such a silly post.


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    #12
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    brianthebard wrote: »
    No you couldn't. But if you could, why only that famine? Such a silly post.


    Please explain why not?

    This country was run from London, that set up a system in which most of the population was dependant on a single crop. As soon as that crop failed over a million straved to death.


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    #13
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Because laissez faire government, while very flawed, is not a form of warfare.


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    #14
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Because laissez faire government, while very flawed, is not a form of warfare.

    Russell's laissez-faire policy definately made things alot worse. But the system that was set up before this was completely corrupt. 6 million pounds a year in land rent was taken out of ireland and spent in england. Which left ireland at a complete disadvantage, with no money to invest in industry. I would consider this economic warfare.

    Its ironic that the pds laissez-faire economic polies have landed us in the sh;t where in today.


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