Registering UK car question.

Cabal

Hi,

I have had my UK bought car in Ireland for about 7 months unregistered, which I now know is really bad! My problem is, I have owned the car for 6 months outside Ireland, and the VRT will be 1800 euros. If I file for a transfer of residency, will I get into trouble when they see that I entered Ireland so long ago?

The gardai stopped me and told me I have a week to get it registered. So I'm not sure where I stand as far as registering it goes. If I pay the VRT that seems to be the problem resolved, but it's a lot of money that I don't really have to spare.

Anyone able to give me any advice?

Many thanks

Owen

Pay the VRT like the rest of us have to. It's against the charter of this Forum to ask how to defraud the revenue unfortunately. And not to state the obvious, or be a prick, but if you couldn't afford the VRT, you shouldn't have bought the car.

Tipsy Mac

You made a balls of it really, if you owned the car for 6 months in the UK you can bring it in for free, but because you owned it for 7 months in Ireland you will need to pay full VRT as you were resident here for those 7.

Cabal

Ned, I wasn't asking how to defraud anyone! I have legitimately owned the car for 6 months, but I wasn't aware of the law. I know I should have been aware of it, but I simply wasn't.

I can't believe a moderator would attack me for asking a genuine question when I've ended up in a situation which has me really stressed. I agree with tipsy mac that I did make a balls of it and I can accept that. I just wanted advice because I have made a mess, and I'm trying very hard not to make it worse.

Thanks for the pleasant response.

sdanseo

Cabal wrote: »

Ned, I wasn't asking how to defraud anyone! I have legitimately owned the car for 6 months, but I wasn't aware of the law. I know I should have been aware of it, but I simply wasn't.

I can't believe a moderator would attack me for asking a genuine question when I've ended up in a situation which has me really stressed. I agree with tipsy mac that I did make a balls of it and I can accept that. I just wanted advice because I have made a mess, and I'm trying very hard not to make it worse.

Thanks for the pleasant response.

Ned's response was justified, and wasn't an attack. Your only option here is to pay the VRT. Even doing it right now may not guarentee you won't get some sort of penalty. Harsh though it sounds (and is), ignorance of the law is not a defence. You've been on this forum since last year, why didn't you ask when you bought it if you weren't sure?

You got stung, deal with it - painful reality I'm afraid

Owen

Cabal wrote: »

Ned, I wasn't asking how to defraud anyone! I have legitimately owned the car for 6 months, but I wasn't aware of the law. I know I should have been aware of it, but I simply wasn't.

I know, listen, I'm not putting you down, but a Gard and the Revenue would say that ignorance is no defence when it comes to the law.

Cabal wrote: »

I can't believe a moderator would attack me for asking a genuine question when I've ended up in a situation which has me really stressed.

I didn't attack you - and sincere apologies if you thought so (In fact, another moderator told me that I was on a high horse, so I do feel bad for typing it in the first place). It's very difficult to convey emotion in these forums here. You brought a car in by your own admission that you can't afford to VRT, and you're in here asking is there anything you can do to not pay the VRT for a while until you can afford it ... unfortunately there isn't.

I've paid out over 8k on VRT on two vehicles myself, so I know it's not easy, but it was something I budgeted for when looking for the two of them.

Our man in Havana

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Ned's response was justified, and wasn't an attack. Your only option here is to pay the VRT. Even doing it right now may not guarentee you won't get some sort of penalty. Harsh though it sounds (and is), ignorance of the law is not a defence. You've been on this forum since last year, why didn't you ask when you bought it if you weren't sure?

You got stung, deal with it - painful reality I'm afraid

What penalties are you on about?

peasant

Unfortunately the law on VRT and VRT exemptions isn't black and white, not even grey, but a mess!

If you are an Irish resident bringing a car in you have to pay VRT the following working day ..no if's, no but's.

If you are a EU citizen moving to Ireland and you've owned your car for more than 6 months/6000 kms prevoiusly, you get a VRT exemption (and you can't sell the car on for a year). No if's or but's there either.

However, if you are a EU citizen here on a temp working contract, you don't have to register your car here at all for 6 months ..if you are a foreign student, the period is even longer.

However if you are an Irish citizen that lived abroad for a while, the 6month/6000 km rule still applies to the car ...but for the owner all of a sudden they want to see (with lots of proof!) that you were resident outside the state for more than 12 months.

Now throw all of that into a bag, give it a good shake and try and apply it to your circumstances, OP :rolleyes:

Your best course of action is to go to the next VRT office, tell your story, plead innocent and hope for pot luck. Worst case scenario you pay VRT.

sdanseo

Bond-007 wrote: »

What penalties are you on about?

If he files his residency form, and the Revenue find out he's been living here seven months, he's strictly speaking liable for penalties no?

Edit: On reading peasant's posts and re-reading the OP's, seems maybe he had 6 months grace due living abroad, but has been here 7.

Our man in Havana

Worst case scenario you pay VRT.

Can they add on penalties for failing to paid within the 24 hours type of thing?

peasant

Bond-007 wrote: »

Can they add on penalties for failing to paid within the 24 hours type of thing?

Theoretically, probably ...

But who's to say s/he wasn't here on probation/ temporary work contract for the first six months?

the other thing ...if you just moved here from another country (and you didn't happen to move back in with mom and dad) you can't even legally register your car within 24 hours.

Thanks to the clever system here you need things like a social security number, a domestic bill, etc, etc.

You try and get that within 24 hours

dollydishmop

sdonn_1 wrote: »

If he files his residency form, .

Apologies for taking this off topic....but what's a residency form?

I've lived here since 2000 (originally from UK) and never heard of (or filed?) such a thing?

sdanseo

dollydishmop wrote: »

Apologies for taking this off topic....but what's a residency form?

I've lived here since 2000 (originally from UK) and never heard of (or filed?) such a thing?

No idea, the OP will have to answer that. Sounds like an easy way for the Revenue to find out that you haven't paid up, to me

Cabal

Hi,

In response to dollydishmop... when I went to the revenue offive the guiy told me that because I'd owned the car outside Irealnd for 6 months I may be exempt from paying VRT, and to do so I should file for 'transfer of residency' or 'TOR'. He gave me a list of evidence I would have to provide ie. bank statements, payslips etc for those 6 months. I think that's really common, as that's how you file for VRT exemption.

In response to ned78... The problem I had with your statement is that I lived in the UK for 28 years, and bought the car 6 months before I knew I was coming to Ireland. The only reason for the move was because my partner was transferred to Ireland with work. I couldn't have possibly budgeted for VRT if I didn't know I'd be moving to Ireland.
The main reason I took exception to your comment was that the implication was that I was trying to dodge a tax. My question was to ascertain whether I would still be exempt from VRT as I legally would have been when I first moved. Leaving it so long was a genuine mistake (balls up) as I did not understand the law, particularly when I only work here for 2 days of the week, and travel back to the UK so frequently. Even the revenue employee had to ask for clarification on whether that made me a permanent citizen of Ireland.
I hope that in some way makes it clearer that I was not looking to defraud anyone, or even defer paying VRT to a later date. I just made a mess of it and wanted some genuine advice on how not to make it worse for myself.
The mess I got myself into had me unbelievably stressed, so some clear advice was all I wanted.
However, you did apologise which is cool with me. I just wish I could make it clear that I don't break laws, do pay my taxes etc. I just made a mess of this one!

I also paid my VRT this morning... it's just a relief to get it sorted!

I'm really confused though, because I was just re-reading some of the other posts, and this 6 month grace period was mentioned, which is something the guys in work kept telling me I had. Not to worry because it's sorted now, but I wish I had've just gone and asked an official when I first moved here.

Cheers anyway

Owen

Cabal wrote: »

In response to ned78... The problem I had with your statement is that I lived in the UK for 28 years, and bought the car 6 months before I knew I was coming to Ireland. The main reason I took exception to your comment was that the implication was that I was trying to dodge a tax. I just wish I could make it clear that I don't break laws, do pay my taxes etc. I just made a mess of this one!

Now I feel a million times more embarassed, I hope I haven't pissed you off Cabal

Cabal wrote: »

I also paid my VRT this morning... it's just a relief to get it sorted!

Good stuff! It's a great relief sometimes to get it out of the way ... I know I felt that after I had been given my reg number, it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders - although the weight was probably the few grand I had in my pocket when I went in the door

Our man in Havana

Were any penalties mentioned Cabal?

peasant

cabal

So you did pay VRT?

I'm still not 100% convinced that you actually had to. Did they explain to you why and under what ruling they made you pay in the end?

Cabal

Cabal wrote: »

I also paid my VRT this morning... it's just a relief to get it sorted!

There is no way that you should have had to pay the vrt Cabal. You just moved to Ireland and owned the car for 6 months abroad. You were also allowed to drive it for 6 months before declaring it here so I cant see how they made you pay.

It concerns me as I have had my car here now for almost 6 months having lived in the UK for a year and I presumed it didnt matter how long I waited to declare it once I have proof of the time I lived abroad I could VRT the car for free when ever I wanted.

Cabal

Ned, I didn't say those things to emabarass you at all. I just felt wick that I was maybe coming across like someone who deliberatley tried to get away with stuff like this. Don't feel bad, it's all good! No worries at all

In response to the other replies, yeah, I paid the VRT just to not have the stress of it hanging over me. It sucks, but I was so stressed, it's nice to have it out of the way.

According to the gard that stopped me I had 24 hours, no mention of the 6 months. I know I said I had been here for 7 months, but I only became 100% full time permanent resident around October when I had got an interview for the job I now have. Part of me thinks I may have been ok to apply for a transfer of residency at this stage and be VRT exempt, however the attitude the gard took with me was harsh to say the least and despite having a letter from the VRO granting me 30 days to get paperwork together for the TOR, the gard told me I had 1 week to register it. That does suck when the letter from the VRO is meant to be proof to the gards that you are in the process of getting it sorted.

I'm not planning on appealing or anything like that, but feel free to discuss it. It is in my opinion the safest way I could have proceeded - paying the VRT. If I produced bank statements etc. that proved I owned the car for 6 months in the UK, but also was here in Ireland frequently from July(ish), would I have been somehow prosecutable? I have no idea, and would rather not make things any worse for myself by trying to find out.

I hope that makes sense

I noticed someone asked why I didn't ask on the forum sooner ie before I got here, and it's going to sound really stupid, but I just never thought.
Have you ever had it where you somehow seem to amble on through life oblivious to somethign that is actually really important? Somehow I managed to do that for whole time I was here until Christmas, when for some reason I looked it up and nearly had a heart attack!
It is my own fault through ignorance...c'est la vie!

Cheers for the input.

*Edit - Bond, there were no penalties mentioned. When you register the car and offer the VRT, they don't ask for the date of entry into Ireland. That was why I saw it as being the safest approach for me to not make things any worse. Hope that helps.

sdanseo

Cabal, I won't pretend I'm not surprised but I am glad you didn't end up paying penalties etc. I know some people feel you may not have had to pay anything and if that's the case maybe it's better you don't find out! And If I seemed like I was attacking you at all above, I apologise also, that was not the intention.

All you have to do now is hope to hell peasant wasn't right! :P

Cabal

Devon Steep Gear wrote: »

There is no way that you should have had to pay the vrt Cabal. You just moved to Ireland and owned the car for 6 months abroad. You were also allowed to drive it for 6 months before declaring it here so I cant see how they made you pay.

It concerns me as I have had my car here now for almost 6 months having lived in the UK for a year and I presumed it didnt matter how long I waited to declare it once I have proof of the time I lived abroad I could VRT the car for free when ever I wanted.

Sorry, I actually totally missed your post when I last replied.
I don't know what to suggest to you. If you email the Revenue Office in an anonymous manner and just state the situation, and ask them if you can still file for transfer of residency or whatever, I'm sure they'll give you a genuine answer. I can't see them trying to lure you into the office so they can seize your car.

I wish I had more time to really work out what I was able to do in my circumstances, but whenever the gards are threatening to take the car off you if you don't get it done that week, I just had to bite the bullet to avoid any more hassle.

If the gards hadn't stopped me I more than likely would have proceeded with the transfer of residency application.

There has to be someone on the boards here who knows this part of the law clearly? Good luck anyways

Cabal

Sorry for the double post, not sure how to combine this with my last one :S

peasant wrote: »

cabal

So you did pay VRT?

I'm still not 100% convinced that you actually had to. Did they explain to you why and under what ruling they made you pay in the end?

As I just went in and filled in the regular form and told the guy I was wanting to pay the VRT, there were no questions asked, it was just put through as a regular transaction. There was nothing for them to explain to me, because as far as they knew I had just bought the car and needed to pay thr VRT on it.

Hope that makes sense

Cabal

Cabal wrote: »

Sorry, I actually totally missed your post when I last replied.
I don't know what to suggest to you. If you email the Revenue Office in an anonymous manner and just state the situation, and ask them if you can still file for transfer of residency or whatever, I'm sure they'll give you a genuine answer. I can't see them trying to lure you into the office so they can seize your car.

I wish I had more time to really work out what I was able to do in my circumstances, but whenever the gards are threatening to take the car off you if you don't get it done that week, I just had to bite the bullet to avoid any more hassle.

If the gards hadn't stopped me I more than likely would have proceeded with the transfer of residency application.

There has to be someone on the boards here who knows this part of the law clearly? Good luck anyways

Thanks! I called them up today(anonymously) and told them my situation. I said I moved back temporarily and then got work so want to stay(which is true). They made no issue at all about the amount of time I have been back they just told me to have proof of living and using the car in the UK and proof that I am moving back for good. They would then review this and make a decision.

You may be able to appeal the VRT that you paid if you have all required documents.

Cabal

Devon Steep Gear wrote: »

Thanks! I called them up today(anonymously) and told them my situation. I said I moved back temporarily and then got work so want to stay(which is true). They made no issue at all about the amount of time I have been back they just told me to have proof of living and using the car in the UK and proof that I am moving back for good. They would then review this and make a decision.

You may be able to appeal the VRT that you paid if you have all required documents.

I wish that was possible. I suppose I could ask, now that everything is legit as it stands. I can't see them ever refunding anything though!!
Part of my problem was that the Revenue Office gave me 30 days to get the paperwork together for TOR, but then the gard told me I had to get it done now. There wasn't a chance of me being able to get the paperwork posted here in time. I have some of the stuff, but not all.

I'll try and find out some more about it, but I wouldn't hold my breath!

Cheers