To BOSE or not to BOSE

nanook

Thought that was a catchy title

Here is my question, I already have a surround sound system, its a sony, and I have to be hounest I personnaly thinks its a bit crap. Sound is only coming through 2 speakers (center and front right)
With the current sterling exchange rate, I was thinking of getting the Lifestyle 28. I understand it is the basic entry level but it seems to be far superior to any other system going, or am falling to the brand and the hype that goes with it.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.


nanook

Slaphead07

Walk away. Bose are a marketing company that stick their name on mundane domestic appliances.

eamon234

nanook wrote: »

Thought that was a catchy title

Here is my question, I already have a surround sound system, its a sony, and I have to be hounest I personnaly thinks its a bit crap. Sound is only coming through 2 speakers (center and front right)


nanook

Maybe you don't have your system set up properly!
Surround speakers need good quality cable and the connections have to be right - might be a lot cheaper to check that first! You wouldn't believe the amount of people that buy these systems, never read the instructions and make a complete arse of setting them up (not saying that's you:D)
Also it depends what you're plugging into it and what types of connection you're using.

The Ritz

I'd second the suggestion that you should check the connections on your existing system, also interested in what your entire system consists of, and some idea of what you want to upgrade in overall terms.

The general judgement of Bose tends to be quite harsh, I think that the pricing of their stuff carries a huge premium for the image and the portrayal of a variety of proprietary features, as opposed to the actual sound quality.

If this: http://www.buy4now.ie/discountelectrical/productdetail.aspx?pid=100727&loc=P&catid=41.2 is any indicator of the budget territory you're considering, then I believe that it's a hugely inflated price to pay in comparison to alternative systems, considering that it's effectively a dvd based system and needs further accessories to provide HDMI connectivity.

If your budget is in that area you could do immeasureably better. The choice is so wide that I'd advise you to talk to a decent hifi dealer about what you want to achieve - feel free to ask here for a second opinion if you like.

On the other hand, if you are attracted to the style of the Bose or it's suggestion of simplicity, then it's your money and your choice. the fact I or some of the others who have responded to you here wouldn't consider it under any circumstances is neither here nor there.


Ritz.

viperirl

I'd agree completely with Slaphead in this. Bose are the biggest example of marketing over substance in hifi IMHO. Some hifi mags are not even permitted to review their equipment. That says it all.
If you are after any kind of audio quality, your money is better off being spent on separates or even a decent all-in-one system. The beauty of separates is that you can choose to upgrade individual components over time.
If a 'lifestyle' solution is more important to you, there still must be alternatives that can still give you decent sound.

However, as Ritz said, its your money and if the Bose looks right and sounds right to you then that is all that matters.

knx

I am in complete agreement. I install sound systems and have just talked someone into binning his 4 yr old bose system. Already it's out of date, can't be upgraded and cost a small fortune. For that kind of budget you'd put together a cracking system. If your lookin for satelite speakers in particular check missions m-cube. Otherwise get yourself some feckin floorstanders for your fronts at least.

sofireland

I agree, bose generally is other half/wife friendly.
For that money you could easily get a great seperates system.

nanook

cheers for the reply guys.

now i am confused but will try and upgrade the cables on the existing system first.

once again thanks for the feedback

The Ritz

now i am confused ............

If you have problems sorting out your system, come back and tell us what you have and what you think the problems are.

We can do a lot better than saying we wouldn't buy Bose ! !


Ritz.

recycler1

nanook wrote: »

cheers for the reply guys.

now i am confused but will try and upgrade the cables on the existing system first.

once again thanks for the feedback

Nanook,

There are two issues here. The first is why you're current system isn't working. +1 to The Ritz above, with his reply. You should get your current system working properly, first. (You can always sell it through boards - if you still want to change it after that.)

The second part is more difficult - whether the BOSE system would suit you depends on your budget, your preference in sound, the type of music you listen to and the room where you listen.... The best advice I could offer would be to bring a couple of CD's of the type of music you typically listen to to a dealer with an audio room. Then listen to a few systems, including BOSE.

I am not an audiophile, but I have been deeply interested in HiFi for a long time. (Since the early 1980's) I think the remarks re BOSE are very harsh. I am writing this while listening to a concert on BBC4 on a Marantz AMP, bought on Boards, and BOSE Acoustimass 15 speakers. I think the sound is excellent and, yes, I do like to turn it up when the other half is not around. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the neither is Jamo or Kef, both of which I've had in the past.

This is my second set of BOSE Speakers - the last set was bought 15 years ago! My only criticism, which doesn't apply to the system you're considering, is the size of the sub-woofer unit. It's bloody huge. In the end it all comes down to personal circumstances and taste!

Hope this helps.

The Ritz

@recycler1,

10 posts since 2007 ? Reading the above you should hang around here more, you'd be very welcome

Your point is well made, everyone has their own taste in sound systems and if you find something you like having had a listen to different kit then the opinions of others is really beside the point. The other point you make is also well worth bearing in mind - great value is available second-hand, through the Electronics forum on Adverts.ie or elsewhere.

It would still be interesting to learn more about nanook's system and see where it goes from there.

Ritz.

recycler1

The Ritz wrote: »

@recycler1,

10 posts since 2007 ? Reading the above you should hang around here more, you'd be very welcome

Your point is well made, everyone has their own taste in sound systems and if you find something you like having had a listen to different kit then the opinions of others is really beside the point. The other point you make is also well worth bearing in mind - great value is available second-hand, through the Electronics forum on Adverts.ie or elsewhere.

It would still be interesting to learn more about nanook's system and see where it goes from there.

Ritz.

Thanks for the kind words.
I'll do my best to contribute more.

slavetothegrind

Couldn't resist responding to recycler1.

I have just let a pair of castle harlechs go to my friend, had i still got them i would lend them to you for direct comparison with your current Bose speakers.

I feel sure the soundstage alone would impress you.

Reading that back i don't half sound arrogant...:o but i mean well!

nanook

guys

Sorry I have been missing for a while, manic with work. I will get some info for you regarding the system that I have and let you guys guide me from there.

Slaphead07

The Ritz wrote: »

Your point is well made, everyone has their own taste in sound systems and if you find something you like having had a listen to different kit then the opinions of others is really beside the point.

That's all very PC and GroupHuggy but it can't be said often enough that BOSE is not HiFi and in audio terms is simply a waste of money. It's not a simple question of taste, BOSE is measurably worse than gear costing a fraction of the price.

staker

i'm in the market for a good sound system too.
any recommendations for about €300-€350?
have a sky+,hd freeview,chorusbox and a bog standard dvd player on a 40' tv.
room is about 20 ft by 20ft and i'm partially deaf,and so will the next door neighbour be if i don't invest soon!!
hope op doesn't mind me hijacking!

The Ritz

That's all very PC and GroupHuggy but it can't be said often enough that BOSE is not HiFi and in audio terms is simply a waste of money. It's not a simple question of taste, BOSE is measurably worse than gear costing a fraction of the price.

@Slaphead07,

You do realise that people are entitled to have a different point of view to you ? If someone trys out different kit, opts for Bose, then that's their choice and they're entitled to it. The fact that you or anyone else would choose differently is still neither here nor there. Your snide comment adds nothing. Get over it.

Ritz.

Slaphead07

The Ritz wrote: »

@Slaphead07,

You do realise that people are entitled to have a different point of view to you ? If someone trys out different kit, opts for Bose, then that's their choice and they're entitled to it.

I hate to see people waste their money on pseudo HiFi such as BOSE. I realise that in these forums anything with wires and enough grey plastic is considered hifi but usually that rubbish is priced accordingly, BOSE isn't. It's priced alongside entry level stuff that would give far more satisfaction. Yes of course people will make up their own mind but they should be fully informed. Isn't that the whole purpose of these forums?

viperirl

well there's certainly nothing like a Bose thread to get things a bit heated that's for sure! :-)

Yes, everyone is entitled to their say but we're not talking about comparing or offering differing opinions on 'normal' speakers/systems from respectable hifi brands here IMHO. It's Bose, and no other company anywhere in the hifi business attracts the same bashing or criticisms. Pick up any respectable hifi magazine/journal (not what-hifi!!) and you won't see any reviews of Bose equipment. Bose won't allow them to.
Plenty of people on other sites have admited to buying into their hype and then getting rid of their Bose system.
Slaphead above mentioned that they are 'measurably' worse than equipment at a fraction of the price. This is true. I'm trying to sourse the link but in it, a group of engineers did do a proper review of one of their systems and published the results online. I believe that the Bose system in question had distortions in the satellites measuring +-10.5db. This is simply unheard of in many speaker designs. Another flaw in the design was a frequency gap between the bass module and satellites of 80Hz. That's a huge chunk of the music simply thrown away in the speaker crossovers! You'll never hear it or its interaction with the remainder of the frequencies. There are other surprising results but I wont bother going through them all.
You can get a hint of here why Bose dont publish any data on their speakers.

Why am I ranting here? Well the OP did state that he was considering the Lifestyle 28 because of it's 'superiority' but then questioned as to whether he was falling for the hype. Correct me if I'm wrong OP, but I gathered from your original post that you want the best quality for your money.
(aside from the existing problems with your current system)

If so, then surely its good that people who are in-the-know, who have experience of systems at many levels, who have seen through the Bose hype that perhaps the vast majority of non-audiophiles have not, to come in and offer invaluable advice. I think a few people on this thread have already done so.
I'm not shouting from the bell tower here or trying to make out that I know it all but I have worked in audio component design for more than 10 years. I love hifi and if someone is looking for and asking for advice on the best value system for their money and whom are perhaps not fully knowledgable of hifi gear, then I'd hate to see them waste money on a mediocre product.

Slaphead is very very knowledgable on hifi so I'd certainly value his opinion. His music tastes on the other hand...........well I'd ban him for that! ;-)


Edit: I've just seen Slapheads new post above now.

The Ritz

Yes of course people will make up their own mind but they should be fully informed. Isn't that the whole purpose of these forums?

No argument with that - or the advice given to the OP at the start of this thread, including your own effort.

However I think that someone is entitled to make their own decisions about what kit they buy, if they have a different point of view to the person offering the advice then so what ? You're entitled to your opinion about Bose or whatever. Describing a recognition that someone is entitled to make their own choices as "PC and GroupHuggy" implies that you have a contrary view.


As for this:

I realise that in these forums anything with wires and enough grey plastic is considered hifi

The internet is replete with elitist hifi forums, complete with the usual mix of snobbery and self-appointed experts. This forum is not one of them.


Ritz.

recycler1

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I hate to see people waste their money on pseudo HiFi such as BOSE. I realise that in these forums anything with wires and enough grey plastic is considered hifi but usually that rubbish is priced accordingly, BOSE isn't. It's priced alongside entry level stuff that would give far more satisfaction. Yes of course people will make up their own mind but they should be fully informed. Isn't that the whole purpose of these forums?

Me again, listening to Beethoven, on my BOSE System - and enjoying it!
Enjoying is the key word here - I can listen to it for extended period without fatigue. I would recommend that anyone seriously interested in HiFi listen to a BOSE system, at least once.

Now to parse Slaphead07's post, a little.

"pseudo HiFi" By who's definition?
I like a informal definition of HiFi: a set of high-quality sound-reproducing equipment.
BOSE fits that bill. Perfectly.

"with wires and enough grey plastic"
The wires are substantially irrelevant - despite the guff that often found in HIFi mags.
The looks, are also irrelevant, from a listening perspective.
However, from an aesthetics perspective, BOSE are very good.
(I'd say excellent, only for that large subwoofer unit!)

"that would give far more satisfaction."
How do you know? I'll answer for you, you don't! It's entirely personal.
Not only that, but a system that sounds good in one setting may tank out in another.

"Yes of course people will make up their own mind but they should be fully informed."
Yes, they should be fully informed.
That was why I suggested that people try and listen to various equipment, including BOSE, and then make their own mind up.

The Ritz

@viperirl,

I'd find it difficult to disagree with anything in your last post, but think that the heat in the issue is not about Bose as such, more about the fact that people are entitled to make their own choices, no matter what their taste in kit is.

Ritz.

Slaphead07

The Ritz wrote: »

The internet is replete with elitist hifi forums, complete with the usual mix of snobbery and self-appointed experts. This forum is not one of them.


Ritz.

and is therefore fairly pointless. It should really be under "Home Appliances" with deep fat fryers and dishwashers.

viperirl

The Ritz wrote: »

@viperirl,

I'd find it difficult to disagree with anything in your last post, but think that the heat in the issue is not about Bose as such, more about the fact that people are entitled to make their own choices, no matter what their taste in kit is.

Ritz.

Fair enough, I'd agree. Its surely benificial though if people are informed on all matters from those that that might have some extra knowledge or experience. I myself would certainly appreciate advice from such people if I was delving into any unknown. After that, people should make their own choice as they see fit.

The Ritz

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ritz

The internet is replete with elitist hifi forums, complete with the usual mix of snobbery and self-appointed experts. This forum is not one of them.

and is therefore fairly pointless. It should really be under "Home Appliances" with deep fat fryers and dishwashers.

@Slaphead07

If you regard the forums here as fairly pointless because it lacks elitism, tries to avoid snobbery or self-appointed experts then find a forum with those qualities and spend your time there.


Ritz.

recycler1

viperirl wrote: »

well there's certainly nothing like a Bose thread to get things a bit heated that's for sure! :-)

Once we don’t get too precious about it, it’s fun!

viperirl wrote: »

If so, then surely its good that people who are in-the-know, who have experience of systems at many levels, who have seen through the Bose hype that perhaps the vast majority of non-audiophiles have not, to come in and offer invaluable advice.

I hope that one’s for me.
I like the definition of an audiophile, from Wikipedia “An audiophile, from Latin audio[1] "I hear" and Greek philos[2] "loving," is an audio reproduction enthusiast, who typically listens to music on high-end audio electronics.
Audiophiles try to listen to music at a quality level that is as close to the original performance as possible. They use high-fidelity components to try to attain these goals. Many are music lovers who are passionate about high-quality music reproduction. DIY audio enthusiasts build their own equipment, especially loudspeakers.

I once was that bunny! I built my first stereo amplifier at age 21, it was based on the then new MOSFET Technology, delivered 75W RMS per channel, at a measured THD of .001 % at 60W RMS output. It cost me more money than I could afford - and then I had to buy the turntable and speakers. I am also professionally qualified in the electronics area. (I still have that amp, I simply couldn’t get myself to throw it out. However, now, even a cheap all-digital amplifier knocks the socks off it.)

But enough of that…

My interest nowadays is listening to music and, sometimes, films. What I want is a system that I like listening to – and whether, or not, it has a flat frequency response is entirely irrelevant to me. For me, BOSE, fits that bill.
Equally importantly, the family much prefer it to my previous systems. My daughter, currently studying for her music diploma, is particularly impressed with the ease with which she can pick out individual instruments in orchestral works

viperirl wrote: »

I love hifi and if someone is looking for and asking for advice on the best value system for their money and whom are perhaps not fully knowledgable of hifi gear, then I'd hate to see them waste money on a mediocre product.

I do not accept that BOSE is mediocre – either on build quality, or sound quality. Neither, would I consider it an “audiophile” system – it’s frequency response is not flat, by design. However, for most people, all that matters is that it is enjoyable to listen to. All my family prefer it over earlier systems.

(Flat response amplifiers are not necessarily what is required, anyway. It's the overall installation that matters. I did some measurements with my "old" amplifier, Kef Monitor Speakers, a white noise generator and a spectrum analyser, many years ago. The frequency response within my sitting room was far from flat! Opening the curtains also had a substantial effect!)

recycler1

The Ritz wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ritz

@Slaphead07

If you regard the forums here as fairly pointless because it lacks elitism, tries to avoid snobbery or self-appointed experts then find a forum with those qualities and spend your time there.


Ritz.

+1

Slaphead07

The Ritz wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ritz

@Slaphead07

If you regard the forums here as fairly pointless because it lacks elitism, tries to avoid snobbery or self-appointed experts then find a forum with those qualities and spend your time there.

Ritz.

I regard these forums as pointless only because they lack HiFi.

viperirl

@recycler

If you get enjoyment out of your system no matter what it is then that's the main thing regardless of what the measurements suggest. Vinyl has measured distortion levels far worse than that of CD but these are in the so called even order harmonics if I remember correctly, which are very pleasing to the human ear. So, of course, good measurement results dont necessarily mean a component will sound pleasing to certain people.


My long post above was merely just to point out to the OP that a sizeable majority of audiophiles have issues with Bose systems due to various reasons. I still stand by my view that I think Bose are mediorce and I'm not just jumping on the Bose bashing bandwagon here. My sisters husband has one of those Bose AM systems and I did listen to it a few years ago. It wasnt bad or dreadful by any means, it was better than any Sony or Panny midi system that I've heard and it did go very loud but there was something not right about the midrange, in particular the soundstaging and with the integration of the bass with the lower midrange in particular. But thats just my view and I've no issue with anyone who feels differently.


Your viewpoint that your Bose system is more pleasing to you than other hifi gear from the likes of Kef etc is something that the OP should take into account. He might actually feel the same after auditioning various equipment regardless of their price or technical accomplishments.

At least he has now plenty of info and viewpoints to take on board and make the final decision himself.

recycler1

viperirl wrote: »

@recycler

If you get enjoyment out of your system no matter what it is then that's the main thing regardless of what the measurements suggest. Vinyl has measured distortion levels far worse than that of CD but these are in the so called even order harmonics if I remember correctly, which are very pleasing to the human ear. So, of course, good measurement results dont necessarily mean a component will sound pleasing to certain people.

@viperirl

I think that phrases like "no matter what it is" and "certain people" is over-egging it a bit.

viperirl wrote: »

@recycler

My sisters husband has one of those Bose AM systems and I did listen to it a few years ago. It wasnt bad or dreadful by any means, it was better than any Sony or Panny midi system that I've heard and it did go very loud but there was something not right about the midrange, in particular the soundstaging and with the integration of the bass with the lower midrange in particular. But thats just my view and I've no issue with anyone who feels differently.

I have personal experience of two BOSE Systems. Both had very different characteristics, so it is important not to generalise. My first BOSE system was the Bose Acoustimass 5 Series I. I bought this stereo speaker system, in the early 1990's. It had two direct-reflecting speakers that connected to my "old" amplifier via a passive bass unit that had the low pass filters built in. In my opinion the bass reproduction of this unit was particularly good - it was sharp, tight and detailed.

My current speakers are the Acoustimass15 Series III, introduced, I believe, sometime in 2006. The centre channel was redesigned for this version.I would agree that the bass isn't as strong with this version. It can be muddy and somewhat overpowering. (I have it turned down to a minimum.)

However, what matters to me is having a system that I actually use, and enjoy, on an ongoing basis. I have found that the BOSE is something we now now take for granted. We use it for TV, music and DVD's. Most of the time it is fed from a SkY HD receiver.

viperirl wrote: »

@recycler
regardless of their price or technical accomplishments.

Yes, the price is high. So too is the level of technical accomplishment. The sound is absolutely astounding, given the size of the satellite speakers.:)