The Counting Thread

dionsiseire

So with all the new threads coming up i thought i'd start one which i think will benefit ALL darts players and their games by asking people to divulge the best way to checkout certain numbers

Like this video from Bobby George explaining the right way to checkout 102

Tonight at a league match i got a lecture on 66, i decided i would go for T16, if i hit i would be on D9, if i hit 16 i can go Bull or 18 D16. if i hit 8 i can go 18 tops and if i hit 7 i can go 19 tops.

Their arguement was for T10, leaving D18, if you hit 10 its 16 tops and if you hit 6 its its 20 tops.

So If you have a number and a reason to go a certain way please post it and help others out there with counting properly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et5ZU8_JiH8

Double Top

if i have 66 left i usually go for the bull, hit it and its D8 hit the 25,41 left 1 or 9 to finish D20 or D16 bit weird but i love the bull:D

Evolution Enter

66 - with three darts in my hand I go for an 18, treble 18 leaves me double 6, single 18 leaves me 48, which is perhaps the best two dart finish on the board

ratinakeg

66- I would go for for treble 18 double 6, if I hit a single 18 then 16 double 16.

Recently I've twice checked out 76 using 19,19, double 19!

Evolution Enter

Some simple checkouts that alot of beginners miss are the 71 and 74

71, alot of players go for treble 17 to leave double 10. But treble 13 leaves double 16, single sixteen leaves 58, which isn't a bad two darter as you get to stay on the top half of the board

74 I often see lads going for treble 18, but I like treble 14 for double 16, if you hit single 14 you've 60 for a two darter

Just random thoughts on counting

And 123, always start on the 19's

Double Top

two i like to do is for 116 (T19,19,D20) and 112 (T18,18,D20)
if your a tops player instead on hitting T20 then switching to the single your in the same area for the treble and single

bulldog0906

i love going for 126 by going for treble 19 first well if you hit a single 19 you have 107 left which is treble 19 bull

or if you hit treble 19 treble 19 its double 6

not sure why ppl go foe treble 20 well if you hit a single 20 you have 106 which can't be taken out in 2 darts

not sure if i'm right but its the way i go for it

swalsh

bulldog0906 wrote: »

i love going for 126 by going for treble 19 first well if you hit a single 19 you have 107 left which is treble 19 bull

or if you hit treble 19 treble 19 its double 6

not sure why ppl go foe treble 20 well if you hit a single 20 you have 106 which can't be taken out in 2 darts

not sure if i'm right but its the way i go for it

This is the only way to go for a 126 really, best no of outshots possible

bulldog0906

well thank god someone agrees with me

Evolution Enter

Same applies to a 129, always go treble 19 first, at least if all you hit is a single 19 you have the possibility of 110 with two darts

Trick with counting is to always leave yourself a possible two darter after your first dart

Those rules only apply to when you have three darts in your hand though

Take a 68, with two darts in your hand you should always go for an 18, the treble leaves double 7, single leaves you a shot at the bull

But with three darts in your hand, even though it's a low number, go for treble twenty, if you miss you have two darts to take out 48

HOnestly, best way to get good at counting is playing experienced guys in a bar, and listening to them

whaaames

Here's one i bet i'm on my own for, but i just fancy it, rarely comes off though, ha

106 => Treb 11, Treb 11, Double 20

Not really the percentage darts but........

Evolution Enter

Man, if I was playing with someone on my team in a league match and they went that way, they'd get a slap and be dropped from the team.

Assume you're only practicing if you go that way, but I know some teams that take counting so seriously that you'd be dropped for going the wrong way

bulldog0906

whaaames wrote: »

Here's one i bet i'm on my own for, but i just fancy it, rarely comes off though, ha

106 => Treb 11, Treb 11, Double 20

Not really the percentage darts but........

its an nice way to go for it if your opponent is on 300+
but you must have got it a few time so you would be confident going for it

bulldog0906

141= i kike to go for that finish by hitting treble 19 treble 16 and double 18
there are a few othere ways to hit the checkout
treble 20 treble 19 double 12 / treble 17 treble 18 double 18 or bull treble 17 double 20

Double Top

164: T19 T19 BULL
154: T19 T19 D20

two good finishes that use the 19's, instead of switching form T20 to T18 your aiming at the same target twice so a better chance of fiinishing them

whaaames

bulldog0906 wrote: »

its an nice way to go for it if your opponent is on 300+
but you must have got it a few time so you would be confident going for it

ah yea i'm only a bedroom player, but i am gonna start playing in pubs but well sussed, although there is a team starting in my club i think that i have my name in the hat for, but yea i've hit it a few times but missed it more times than not, i just seem more accurate on the left side of the board,..

Although i suppose if i was playing for a team i'd know not to go that way, but it's no harm in practice

nhughes100

A lot of counting depends on how good you are on certain doubles or more importantly the bull, as a lot of percentage shots usually leave you on a bull finish if you miss a treble and hit the single. I personally try not to leave bull shots or start with a bull/hope for 25 as I could potentially hit any single number when going for the bull. Therefore to take the 66 example, I'd always go for treble 10 to leave D18, single 10 or single 15 still leaves you a shot at a decent double(for me anyway).

To take a pro example Wayne Mardle used to always setup for D18 but his inability to hit D9 was costing him games, as hitting the single 9 always meant having to use up an extra dart to square off the odd number.

I find counting lets a good player down if he can't do it and gives an average player a chance if he can. To give my own example a few weeks ago, was playing one of the new lads in the team, he was probably about 150-180 ahead of me but his counting is non existant so he always tries to leave 40, but he can only do this from about 65 down. He misses a few doubles, I have 106, I throw an awkward s20 which sorta blocks the bed. Now the guy who can't count would just keep lobbing at 20, I switch to 19 knowing 76 or 38 leaves me on a nice single or two darter. I left 48 and I could see the other guy's head drop. 2 darts later and game over.

Degag

nhughes100 wrote: »

I throw an awkward s20 which sorta blocks the bed. Now the guy who can't count would just keep lobbing at 20, I switch to 19 knowing 76 or 38 leaves me on a nice single or two darter. I left 48 and I could see the other guy's head drop. 2 darts later and game over.

Thats a bad number to go for imo... t19 leaves you 29 whereas t18 leaves you d16 or i guess even t16 leaves you d19... Going for 19s with 2 darts in your hand and 86 left makes no sense whatsoever.

adhoc

just a note as it happens Ur counting is all wrong 106 20 first leaves 86 therefore Ur shot with 2 darts is T18 D16 if u go 19s u cant Finnish till Ur next visit witch would be very negative.The best way to practice Ur counting is to play 170 at home say u throw 29 then ur left 141 sot is T20 T19 D12 if u miss carry on with what u have left. Never count on ur opponent missing

adhoc

IM too slow at typing ha.good dart thrower thou

Evolution Enter

Just on 106, maybe for the less accurate thrower, treble 14 might be a better dart to start on, for the simple reason it leaves you 64 (t18 d8 or two 16's to leave 32 next visit)

Reason I'd encourage treble 14 is that no matter what you hit in that section you leave yourself a two darter

S9 - leaves 97 / S11 - leaves 95 and either treble will leave you handy too

Just a thought

Lazarus2.0

The one thing that so many players fail to work on is counting but it is such a vital part of the game . It's grand banging in the t20s but once you get close to 200 left if you start dithering by playing the wrong shots you are effectively giving your opponent an extra 3 or 6 darts - against a player who knows the numbers that can be fatal . The key doubles are 20,18 and 16 - 20 and 18 because they are the easiest reachable with a split if you hit a single . 16s because singles will split all the way to the madhouse , and is also reachable playing percentage shots . If you have time to run down the numbers they are the doubles to be looking for .
Unfortunately you'll not be guaranteed that luxury in every game you play - in that case Double Top's advice is sound . If you're looking to finish say 148 you might be thinking 60,48,tops - fair enough if you are clear of your opponent but 54,54,tops might be the better shot if you're under pressure . There's a wide variation in the throw for 60 to the throw for 48 and then you have to go back up for tops whereas 54 is not that much of a variance to the t20 you'll have been throwing at all night and the switch back up to tops is not that major a shift - unless you're a 19s player in which case you're on your own . I use 148 as a convenient example of the thought you should apply .
Equally when you are in the 200s you should be thinking of leaving an out shot , no matter how unlikely you might think it is you'll take it out - even if your opponent is sitting pretty with 50-odd left it'll add a bit of pressure if you leave yourself an outshot - much better to have 167 left than 166 .

I'm starting to sound like John Lowe now so I'll shut up

Lazarus2.0

Evolution Enter wrote: »

Just on 106, maybe for the less accurate thrower, treble 14 might be a better dart to start on, for the simple reason it leaves you 64 (t16 d8 or two 16's to leave 32 next visit)

Reason I'd encourage treble 14 is that no matter what you hit in that section you leave yourself a two darter

S9 - leaves 97 / S11 - leaves 95 and either treble will leave you handy too

Just a thought

Fixed that , bud .

Degag

nessyguin wrote: »

- even if your opponent is sitting pretty with 50-odd left it'll add a bit of pressure if you leave yourself an outshot - much better to have 167 left than 166 .

This is top notch advise; advice which i've administered on many occasions... i play with some very talented young lads on occasion, they're about 14 or 15:eek: but i reckon if they were able to count their darts they could be able to beat me regularily, as it happens, they can't so i beat them pretty often.

Getting back to the point in question... if i'm on 235 and hit 2 20s i'll automatically go for a single bull to leave myself on a 170...might not always hit it, but i know i'm thinking about my out shots. Also, i've noticed some friends of mine going for 19s when they are on 170:eek::eek: Their reasoning is they don't think they're going to hit the 20s. Silly ****.

nhughes100

Degag wrote: »

Thats a bad number to go for imo... t19 leaves you 29 whereas t18 leaves you d16 or i guess even t16 leaves you d19... Going for 19s with 2 darts in your hand and 86 left makes no sense whatsoever.

I guess it depends what standerd you are throwing at, I wouldn't be confidant about hitting T18 when I need it, I'm much more comfertable on 19's, 57 does leave 29 but I had 2 darts in my hand so 76 leaves D5. I don't agree that it doesn't make sense, it's a percentage shot playing to your strengths.

adhoc wrote: »

just a note as it happens Ur counting is all wrong 106 20 first leaves 86 therefore Ur shot with 2 darts is T18 D16 if u go 19s u cant Finnish till Ur next visit witch would be very negative.The best way to practice Ur counting is to play 170 at home say u throw 29 then ur left 141 sot is T20 T19 D12 if u miss carry on with what u have left. Never count on ur opponent missing

Have you any advice on spelling?;) Seriously I had to read that about 5 times to figure out what you were trying to say. Single 18 leaves you on 68 which I can't finish either with 1 dart in my hand. Against a poor finisher the percentage play in my opinion is to set it up.

Evolution Enter wrote: »

Just on 106, maybe for the less accurate thrower, treble 14 might be a better dart to start on, for the simple reason it leaves you 64 (t18 d8 or two 16's to leave 32 next visit)

Reason I'd encourage treble 14 is that no matter what you hit in that section you leave yourself a two darter

S9 - leaves 97 / S11 - leaves 95 and either treble will leave you handy too

Just a thought

That's a good way too and not entirely obvious. I agree somewhat about not relying on your opponent to miss but how many times in the BDO final did Hankey give up during a leg only to have O'Shea miss several doubles.

Double Top

has any one ever thought of going for the bull on 106, i'll tell ye it can be as good as a T20. had 106 left and hadn't been hitting the T20 with any type of consistency so thought to myself might aswell go for the bull hit the bull left me 56 finished 16 D20. trued again a while later and hit the 25 leaving me 81 fiinished it T19 D12. bull is a great way to go because even if you miss the bull and the 25 all you have to drop into is a decent number and your still on a finish and you never know you could leave yourself on a easier finish (just a thought:D)

Degag

nhughes100 wrote: »

I guess it depends what standerd you are throwing at, I wouldn't be confidant about hitting T18 when I need it, I'm much more comfertable on 19's, 57 does leave 29 but I had 2 darts in my hand so 76 leaves D5. I don't agree that it doesn't make sense, it's a percentage shot playing to your strengths.



Have you any advice on spelling?;) Seriously I had to read that about 5 times to figure out what you were trying to say. Single 18 leaves you on 68 which I can't finish either with 1 dart in my hand. Against a poor finisher the percentage play in my opinion is to set it up.



That's a good way too and not entirely obvious. I agree somewhat about not relying on your opponent to miss but how many times in the BDO final did Hankey give up during a leg only to have O'Shea miss several doubles.

I know what you are saying but i don't agree with you at all. You are taking liberties that your oponant will miss with 3 darts, the fact that he's a poor finisher is pretty irrevelant because you have the darts to finish it. You shouldn't be giving him any opertunities. You're not going to improve your t18s if you don't practice them or go for them:) I don't know what your standard is but it can't be much worse than my own and i reckon you must go for your finishes when you have them.

Also i'd question your logic of leaving yourself on d5, one of the worst doubles on the board regardless if you're confidant of getting it imo.

adhoc

nhughes100 wrote: »

I guess it depends what standerd you are throwing at, I wouldn't be confidant about hitting T18 when I need it, I'm much more comfertable on 19's, 57 does leave 29 but I had 2 darts in my hand so 76 leaves D5. I don't agree that it doesn't make sense, it's a percentage shot playing to your strengths.



Have you any advice on spelling?;) Seriously I had to read that about 5 times to figure out what you were trying to say. Single 18 leaves you on 68 which I can't finish either with 1 dart in my hand. Against a poor finisher the percentage play in my opinion is to set it up.



That's a good way too and not entirely obvious. I agree somewhat about not relying on your opponent to miss but how many times in the BDO final did Hankey give up during a leg only to have O'Shea miss several doubles.

sorry if u found it hard to make sense of my reply i wont be given u any advice again.The idea of darts is not to sit a around thinking of different ways of finishing different outs if that was the case u could make a point in going for any treble for 106 the way i gave u is the answer any experienced dart player will give u because its the best way not the only way get some practice.

nhughes100

adhoc wrote: »

sorry if u found it hard to make sense of my reply i wont be given u any advice again.The idea of darts is not to sit a around thinking of different ways of finishing different outs if that was the case u could make a point in going for any treble for 106 the way i gave u is the answer any experienced dart player will give u because its the best way not the only way get some practice.

Any chance you could get an adult or a teacher to proof read your posts in future? Sorry but text speak wrecks my head.

ny chnce u kud gt n adlt r techr 2 rd ur psts n ftur sry bt txtspk rcks me ed

See what I mean?

Kingp35

nhughes100 wrote: »

Any chance you could get an adult or a teacher to proof read your posts in future? Sorry but text speak wrecks my head.

ny chnce u kud gt n adlt r techr 2 rd ur psts n ftur sry bt txtspk rcks me ed

See what I mean?

Lads less of the silly arguments. And adhoc try not to use text speak because it is hard to read. Thanks

Evolution Enter

A key part of counting and knowing your preferred way of checking out is also getting comfortable on your non scoring trebles ie 20/19's

No point in avoiding trying a checkout, you'll never improve or develop as a dart player if you are too cautious. The worse thing that can happen on a dart board if you try a big checkout is that you don't get it.

The worse thing that will happen you if you never try a big checkout is that you'll always be a crap player

Kingp35

Evolution Enter wrote: »

A key part of counting and knowing your preferred way of checking out is also getting comfortable on your non scoring trebles ie 20/19's

No point in avoiding trying a checkout, you'll never improve or develop as a dart player if you are too cautious. The worse thing that can happen on a dart board if you try a big checkout is that you don't get it.

The worse thing that will happen you if you never try a big checkout is that you'll always be a crap player

I agree with this. If the chance is there to go for the big checkout then you should always take it on. You will never get better if you don't. I find it much harder to hit a treble 15 or something like that because I very rarely throw for it but I have started to hit more regular now because I'm going for the bigger checkouts. I find it much more satisfying to hit a big checkout than hitting a 180.

Evolution Enter

Exactly, darts is a finishing game! I'm always pleased hitting a 180, but a two dart finish using a treble and a double is more satisfying. The best three darts I've ever thrown was probably a 101 checkout in a tournament, even though I hit a 160 checkout and 180's/140's the same day.

Having to switch and hit treble 19 after a fat twenty and then sticking the third straight back up the board for a double 12. Moments like that boost your confidence and let you know you are getting better as a darts player

And not having to stop and calculate is a major part if this

adhoc

Not going to play silling games slagging back and forth and your comments are very childish and insulting. Didn't exactly use text language. Sorry that you don't understand when people use "u" instead of "you". Being rude puts people off giving advice.

whaaames

Evolution Enter wrote: »

Having to switch and hit treble 19 after a fat twenty and then sticking the third straight back up the board for a double 12. Moments like that boost your confidence and let you know you are getting better as a darts player

And not having to stop and calculate is a major part if this

This is a brilliant statement, we all know counting is a massive part of darts, but knowing your checkouts well and being able to go for a double/treble without breaking your rhythm or concentration can mean hitting it and taking out the big finishes...

Evolution Enter

Watching lads in the bar here at the moment, for 75, with three darts in the hand, go 17's first, going green bull red bull should only be tried with two darts in hand

passinginterest

Evolution Enter wrote: »

Watching lads in the bar here at the moment, for 75, with three darts in the hand, go 17's first, going green bull red bull should only be tried with two darts in hand

I always seem to blank on 75 for some reason, tend to end up going for 39 to leave 36, problem there is the single leaves 64 so have to go 14 bull or treble 14 double 11. 17's is definitely the way to go.

Evolution Enter

75 was always a pain for me too, used to try every way, but 12's is a crucial secondary double to hit, treble 17 is also handy for several checkouts, so best way to settle on

pad180

heres one that i love going for .
115 ---go for the bull first ,then 25, tops , hit the 25 first dart t18 tops ,
just a nice 3 dart checkout i like

Degag

pad180 wrote: »

heres one that i love going for .
115 ---go for the bull first ,then 25, tops , hit the 25 first dart t18 tops ,
just a nice 3 dart checkout i like

I'm not entirely sure if thats the best way to go for that... going for the bull doesn't leave a lot of room for error. 19s or 15s are good numbers to go for imo.

Evolution Enter

I'd be inclined to go 20's with my first dart there, single and treble 5's both leave checkouts

dionsiseire

I used to do 90 treble 20 double 15, but thats a bogey double.

Ive now started doing it treble 18, double 18. The only difference is, if i dont hit the treble i cant use the bull, but i can go for 2 double 18's

padr81

I love using 18's in my finishes. I always go trip 18 on any of 90, 108 or 122. Imho its one of the nicest trebles on the board, if im having a particulary bad evening I even switch to it for scoring.

padr81

Degag wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure if thats the best way to go for that... going for the bull doesn't leave a lot of room for error. 19s or 15s are good numbers to go for imo.

I'll agree with this, trip 19 is the shot for me.
115-19=96
115-15=100

Both nice 2 darters. Missing the 25 and your likely to leave yourself no outshot at all never mind a cushy one. Anything below 14 and your in trouble.

Evolution Enter

90 - if you hit the single 18, I'd go treble 12 to leave double 18. If I hit a single 12 then I have a fat twenty to leave myself three darts at tops. Don't really like trying double-double checkouts, if you miss the board you feel a right ass

Lazarus2.0

90 - I dont see the point in going anything other than 20s to get at least a third dart for bull and maybe 2 darts at 15x or one at 5x - or bull for tops leaving 65 if you hit the 25 with first dart in which case 15 to get a dart at bull to win or 25 for tops .

115 - the obvious shot is 19s with the first dart but as Evolution Enter says you do get a bit of leeway by going for t20 in that if you slip into the treble or single 5 with first dart you're still on an outshot without needing to switch targets as you'll still be throwing for t20 with the second dart . Personally I go for 19s but 20s is a valid way to go IMO .

@dionsiseire , going double-double is great practise but you'd probably find yourself on the bench if you did that in a league match , missed and got beaten I know that from experience

This is a great thread , by the way . Probably one of the most helpful in the forum !

Degag

I think the difference between going 20, 20, bull or t18, d18 is your opponants score. If your opponant is in the 200s or mid to high 100s you should go for t18, d18 because you are giving yourself the best oppertunity to kill the leg in a quick, easy and clinical fashion. If you miss your triples you can leave yourself a nice 1 darter while safe in the knowledge that your opponant can't finish. If you go the t20 route, you leave yourself a real possibility of having something nasty like 15 left and having to scramble to win a leg you should have won comfortably.

Now on the other hand if you're opponant is on a 1 darter (or 2 darter maybe) then by all means you should go for 20s and try to get at least 1 dart for a finish!

Lazarus2.0

Degag wrote: »

I think the difference between going 20, 20, bull or t18, d18 is your opponants score. If your opponant is in the 200s or mid to high 100s you should go for t18, d18 because you are giving yourself the best oppertunity to kill the leg in a quick, easy and clinical fashion. If you miss your triples you can leave yourself a nice 1 darter while safe in the knowledge that your opponant can't finish. If you go the t20 route, you leave yourself a real possibility of having something nasty like 15 left and having to scramble to win a leg you should have won comfortably.

Now on the other hand if you're opponant is on a 1 darter (or 2 darter maybe) then by all means you should go for 20s and try to get at least 1 dart for a finish!

Fair point bud , though I dont agree with your timing . Playing safe to leave yourself a nice double is fine but it depends on whether your opponent (1) is on any finish and (2) is , on your reading of the game/knowledge of the opponent , capable of checking out . It's a judgement call - there are so many outshots that you should have different routes for depending on that call . There's no point playing the sensible shots to leave yourself a good double with your next throw if you are not confident of getting that throw . Better to have one dart at 19x than none at those 16x you carefully set up , for example . There are some players you'd not want to allow a shot at a big finish (2 trebles and the double) and others you'll draw the line at treble single double . If you turn down a shot at a bad double when your opponent is on 100 or less you're inviting defeat , tbh .

Degag

nessyguin wrote: »

Fair point bud , though I dont agree with your timing . Playing safe to leave yourself a nice double is fine but it depends on whether your opponent (1) is on any finish and (2) is , on your reading of the game/knowledge of the opponent , capable of checking out . It's a judgement call - there are so many outshots that you should have different routes for depending on that call . There's no point playing the sensible shots to leave yourself a good double with your next throw if you are not confident of getting that throw . Better to have one dart at 19x than none at those 16x you carefully set up , for example . There are some players you'd not want to allow a shot at a big finish (2 trebles and the double) and others you'll draw the line at treble single double . If you turn down a shot at a bad double when your opponent is on 100 or less you're inviting defeat , tbh .

Sure, as i said it all depends on your opponants score!;)