UPC/NTL HD. Anytime soon do you think?

milltown

A search only threw up a thread from '07 about BBC HD on NTL.

Are there any rumours, whispers or press releases as to when UPC might begin offering a HD service?

The existing cables are carrying 20meg broadband and I don't know how many digital channels at the moment. Is HD going to stretch their capacity too far or should the existing network cope?

who is this

milltown wrote: »

Is HD going to stretch their capacity too far or should the existing network cope?

If I'm not mistaken, even without switching off analogue, the current network has PLENTY of extra capacity

DeVore

Then why does my 40 inch tv constantly show me snatches of "jpeg" compression and crackly sound? (I found a solution to the sound issue though... "rewind" a few seconds and then play and it seems to buffer the signal).

UPC can't offer me Broadband until mid year... is that required for HD signal do you think? or completely unconnected...

Price point for HD UPC??

DeV.

watty

BB is nothing to do with HD.

BB needs a reverse path, so older trunk amplifiers that used to feed Analogue on BandI VHF need replaced. Also more headend gear and fibre backhauls. Each 8MHz worth of cable can carry one Analogue channel, about 15 digital channels (or 5 to 6 HD channel) or 45Mbps of shared downstream for modems. The number of users, contention and packages sold decides how many downstream channels are needed. Some areas the cable needs upgraded as it only works to 450MHz or 560MHz. Modern cable TV/BB plant uses 5MHz to 65MHz for upstream BB, 88 to 108MHz for Analogue FM Radio and 110MHz to 862MHz for Analogue TV, Digital TV and BB downstream, all roughly 6.5Mhz bandwidth at 8MHz channel spacing.

HD needs new headend gear and HD source content. Since regular digital on UPC is MPEG2 and MPEG4 is used for HD, the capacity needed is 5/2 = 2.5 times per channel.

They do need more capacity.

BBC HD is still a trial that may stop. Not a service yet.

As explained on various posts there are several reasons why current Digital TV on UPC is poorer than Satellite.

Irishdudedave

Kind of off topic but:

How is it in America that the Cable Cos are capable of carrying a 70 channel analogue & Full digital service with approx 50 HD channels and on-demand on cable? What is the difference with their setup?

Solair

Analogue cable operators in the US used a much wider range of frequencies than most of the operators here. These were either used with a cable-ready tv or a cable box. Also, some systems used double-coax i.e. an A and a B line coming into the house so they doubled their capacity by litterally having half the channels on A and half on B.

Also, NTSC as used on cable is quite low resolution, very few active lines compared to even normal tv - you could be talking 330 lines or less! Analogue US cable was often barely watchable in many systems.

The bandwidth per channel is significantly lower than broadcast grade PAL.

Digital Cable and HDTV in the US is a HUGE step forward, and is more noticble than here in Europe where PAL has always had a fairly decent resolution anyway.

You have to also remember that the majority of HDTV in the USA is not 1080i .. it's usually 720i which isn't all that drastically better than a reasonable quality European DVB SD signal. You certainly won't notice any drastic improvement vs normal Euro TV.

This is why HDTV in Europe hasn't really 'lit the world on fire' the way it has in the US. Many Americans are seeing details that we would take for granted for the first time i.e. that their newscasters have wrinkles and aren't actually a strange shade of orange.

NTSC colour is also not very true to life. US digital (and HDTV) has drastically improved that!

Koloman

HDTV from UPC is mentioned near the end of the article below.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/upc-ireland-enjoys-16pc-revenue-boost-as-expected-1651905.html

Mossy Monk

6 HD channels within 6 months? Interesting but I bet it will be delayed.

paulm17781

Mossy Monk wrote: »

6 HD channels within 6 months? Interesting but I bet it will be delayed.

In the second quarter of this year? I believe series link is due in January of this year too. :rolleyes:

d8player

Mossy Monk wrote: »

6 HD channels within 6 months? Interesting but I bet it will be delayed.

I'm thinking of finally upgrading to a flat screen TV and having looked at the sizes I feel anything over than a 37" would be too big in my living room. When HD eventually comes from UPC would there be much difference in quality between a 37" Full HD and a 37" HD Ready?

Mountjoy Mugger

As long as it has support for 720p / 1080i, you'll be fine. Full HD provides support for up to 1080p, which UPC won't be doing anyway.

d8player

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

As long as it has support for 720p / 1080i, you'll be fine. Full HD provides support for up to 1080p, which UPC won't be doing anyway.

Hi MM

What are you basing that on?

I believe sky only Broadcast in 720P, unless you have a 50" + your not going to notice much difference.

paulm17781

d8player wrote: »

Hi MM

What are you basing that on?

Nobody (anywhere) broadcasts in 1080p. It's for Blu-ray and future standards.

Mossy Monk

d8player wrote: »

What are you basing that on?

I guarantee they wont be using 1080p

d8player

paulm17781 wrote: »

Nobody (anywhere) broadcasts in 1080p. It's for Blu-ray and future standards.

Thanks for that. So would there be much difference in quality playing blu-ray videos between a 37" Full HD TV and a 37" Ready for HD TV?

zilog_jones

cisk wrote: »

I believe sky only Broadcast in 720P, unless you have a 50" + your not going to notice much difference.

I think you'll find it's 1080i that is used on Sky HD channels. Many say 720p isn't enough of an upgrade from PAL, so most/all European HD broadcasters have stuck with 1080i only. 1080p would require twice the bandwidth and is just not practical for broadcasting with current compression technology and adopted standards.

d8player wrote:

So would there be much difference in quality playing blu-ray videos between a 37" Full HD TV and a 37" Ready for HD TV?

Many argue that there's no benefit in "Full HD" (i.e. full 1920x1080 resolution) on smaller TVs, or that HDTVs that aren't "Full HD" are pointless for HD, or that HDTV is pointless on smaller TVs. But it is very subjective and depends on viewing conditions - mainly how far away you'll be from the TV and how good your eyesight is. Basically no one will be able give you a useful answer to that question besides yourself.

Ive read a few times that sky source is 720P but the box says 1080i as thats what its churning out to the tv, weather there is a signal or not.

However i have also heard reports that they vary between 720p and 1080i depending on the content.
All sport for instance is broadcast in 720p due to the favorable refresh method of that spec- however discovery HD stuff is usually 1080i in order to achive slightly more detail for the nature shows.

Anyway one thing is sure that its not 1080P

watty

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

As long as it has support for 720p / 1080i, you'll be fine. Full HD provides support for up to 1080p, which UPC won't be doing anyway.

No. It needs support for 1080i and 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 pixels.

Most 720p/1080i HD Ready TVs are 1366x 768 or worse and degrade HD quality by 50%. Many HD ready sets support 1080i by ignoring half the lines and simply rescaling 540 lines to the 600, 720 or 768 native lines.

Regular TV is 576 lines, so rescaling is best at 1152 (1200 lines is nearest).

The common "so called" "HD Ready" sets with 768 lines require 4/3 rescale of ordinary TV which is much poorer than rescaling to 1080 or 1200. Most TVs overscan, so simplest and best quality method with 1080 lines is to overscan ordinary TV by 6%. giving 2:1 rescaling.

All HD transmissions in Europe/UK are 1080i.

I'd have thought UPC's priority is the network upgrade for Broadband. Then they will roll out HD. There still is not much compelling HD content.

paulm17781

d8player wrote: »

Thanks for that. So would there be much difference in quality playing blu-ray videos between a 37" Full HD TV and a 37" Ready for HD TV?

I think Zilog put it best. I have a 40" 1080p tv. My logic was get the most advanced one I could afford, I didn't want to be annoyed for not getting 1080p.

dave-higgz

Hey guys just getting back on topic here. Does anyone have an idea of what channels we'll be seeing on UPC HD?
Only six channels suggests that none of Sky's channels will be included however test box users were reporting Sky Arts HD.
I assume then they'll get some of the other channels not from sky.
My guess is something like

BBC HD
Setanta Sports HD (I know it's not out yet but it'll probably be there before UPC HD)
Eurosport HD
Discovery HD
Nat Geo HD
History HD

Moriarty

I'd imagine they'll have sky one HD and sky movies HD instead of setanta or eurosport.

Who knows though

dave-higgz

Moriarty wrote: »

I'd imagine they'll have sky one HD and sky movies HD instead of setanta or eurosport.

Who knows though

I think a deal with Sky would be very difficult to secure. We all saw what happened with Virgin Media in the UK and if UPC have indeed secured some BskyB channels then there wouldn't only be six of them! That would be a huge let down. Someone has to break Sky's monopoly on HD and six really says that UPC aren't up for the job.

Moriarty

In fairness we don't know what the plan is. The 'around six' hd channels mentioned in the article might be a stopgap measure while they complete their network upgrade.

Perhaps there will still be parts of the network with old plant that wouldn't support the full spectrum that they plan to have eventually - they'll have to design any tv offerings around the oldest/weakest parts of their cable network at any one point and HD takes up a lot of spectrum relatively speaking.

How many HD channels for english-speaking audiences exist at the moment anyway? Is it more than a handful?

dave-higgz

Moriarty wrote: »

How many HD channels for english-speaking audiences exist at the moment anyway? Is it more than a handful?

Well about 250 if you include America, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand and other English speaking countries.

However of those available to us, the number is no more than 50.

30 of which are on Sky, and the remaining 20ish are ones such as ITV HD not on Sky or others where an uplink is available (eg, Rush HD on sky, they have 10 other sister channels which aren't on sky but which are clearly available)