Limerick-Waterford - How Long Left?

Nostradamus

Got a call from my brother who was working down in Clonmel 2 weeks ago and could see the station from the building he was working on. Said that most trains he saw nearly empty coming into Clonmel from Waterford but a fair number of passengers getting on at Clonmel to make connections with the Junction.

It would be a shame if services on the entire line were suspended as part of cast cutting plan and hopefully they will just be curtailed to Clonmel.

It's only a matter of time before the beancounters jump on this route.

dowlingm

it will be cut back just in time for the eastern platform to open at the Junction which will make connections even better with the extra Dublin-Cork stops.

KC61

Nostradamus wrote: »

Got a call from my brother who was working down in Clonmel 2 weeks ago and could see the station from the building he was working on. Said that most trains he saw nearly empty coming into Clonmel from Waterford but a fair number of passengers getting on at Clonmel to make connections with the Junction.

It would be a shame if services on the entire line were suspended as part of cast cutting plan and hopefully they will just be curtailed to Clonmel.

It's only a matter of time before the beancounters jump on this route.

It is somewhat heartening to see that numbers have at last grown on the Limerick Junction-Clonmel section.

The problem with Clonmel-Waterford is that it needs an early morning service into Waterford and a later evening return. The evening return could be sorted by deferring the 1640 service to 1740 and connecting into the 1830 ex-Cork and 1800 ex-Dublin, but an extra train would be needed to operate a commuter service into Waterford.

Now if an extra Waterford-Dublin service at about 0900 were to be introduced then you'd have a train to operate the commuter service.

But whether that'll happen in the current climate is questionable.

Nostradamus

dowlingm wrote: »

it will be cut back just in time for the eastern platform to open at the Junction which will make connections even better with the extra Dublin-Cork stops.

Well then reducing the services to Clonmel-Lim Juction only would be the best way of holding the numbers on the line and maybe even improving them. I got an email this morning from someone in Carrick and she said that just about every train through that sation have less than 5 passenger on most services now.

The new Lim-Nenagh commuter service is now running with most trains empty. Shocking. Were is all this huge regional "community rail" demand?

Mind you, the WRC is going to carry "a million passengers a year" according to West-on-Track the other night on eco-eye. So nothing to worry about really.

Any sign of the Interconnector or Metro North yet?

KC61

Nostradamus wrote: »

The new Lim-Nenagh commuter service is now running with most trains empty. Shocking. Were is all this huge regional "community rail" demand?

Well it would help if Irish Rail had raised the speed limit (as had been indicated) and that the train arrived on time in Limerick which it has not done more or less since it started!

Why would people use a service that is arriving late every day?

Nostradamus

KC61 wrote: »

Well it would help if Irish Rail had raised the speed limit (as had been indicated) and that the train arrived on time in Limerick which it has not done more or less since it started!

Why would people use a service that is arriving late every day?

I know, Irish Rail are a joke, but I still think this whole idea of demand for regional rail services has been a mass delusion among it promoters.

Ireland does not have the population density to create demand for regional services.

Schuhart

Nostradamus wrote: »

I got an email this morning from someone in Carrick and she said that just about every train through that sation have less than 5 passenger on most services now.

But what about the intangible benefits?

Each one of those five passengers is a hearty fellow, thoroughly enjoying his journey. They are having an absolute hoot, and that's worth any amount of journeys by dour-faced, round-shouldered people bound for Drogheda and Dundalk.

DWCommuter

Nostradamus wrote: »

Got a call from my brother who was working down in Clonmel 2 weeks ago and could see the station from the building he was working on. Said that most trains he saw nearly empty coming into Clonmel from Waterford but a fair number of passengers getting on at Clonmel to make connections with the Junction.

It would be a shame if services on the entire line were suspended as part of cast cutting plan and hopefully they will just be curtailed to Clonmel.

It's only a matter of time before the beancounters jump on this route.

Ah remember back when.

Incredible to think that P11 was formed against a backdrop of proposed closures and this line was one of them. Unfortunetly the razzamatazz of new trains and the controversial WRC blinded many to the fact that a line bewteen two cities was being run as nothing more than a quaint branch line in the home counties. What always amused me was the fact that the WRC stalwarts openly cited this line as being part of their cross radial route from the west. Sure didn't the priest mention it again on eco eye this week. I wonder has he ever travelled on it?The Nenagh and Clonmel lines are no doubt on the chopping board of a bean counter in Connolly.

Since when was railway planning ever undertaken in a professional and responsible manner in this country? Never actually.

noelfirl

DWCommuter wrote: »

Since when was railway planning ever undertaken in a professional and responsible manner in this country? Never actually.

Of course railway planning in this country has been undertaken in a professional and responsible manner!

The problem is it last happened about a hundred odd years ago

Judgement Day

Travelled on the 13.30 ex.Cork today - MkIVs of course, livery filthy and impossible to see out of the windows. Too many goddamn announcements - especially in Irish - Polish might be more appropriate given the staff make-up!
Approaching Limerick Junction passengers were advised to change for Limerick and Ennis - NO mention that there was also a connection available to Waterford and Enniscorthy - there's a surprise now! The waiting room at Limerick Junction is more pleasant now than in recent years and was actually warm. An hour and a quarter later the 2 piece 'Commuter' railcar set-out for Enniscorthy calling at a semi-derelict Tipperary (with nice new roof); Cahir (with its locked shut waiting shelter and toilet); Clonmel boarded up again after its recent renovation (brand new roof) and on to semi-derelict Carrick-on-Suir. Waterford resplendent as ever (Fastrack office recently shoved into where the railway exhibition was housed) and evidence of building work having started on the 'outrageous' new station development. On into the Twilight Zone of the South Wexford line - the only station with a building left is Wellington Bridge and surely not for much longer - eventually we arrived at Rosslare Harbour according to the p.a. but Rosslare Europort according to the signs! Eventually D.G. was reached at 19.42 - Vintage pre-war rail travel at its best. A handful of passengers on the train reflecting the non-marketing of the route and the appalling stock, track etc rather than a lack of demand. I suspect that I am one of the few inhabitants of D.G. who even now that there is train to Waterford - certainly it has never been publicised at the station or in the local media.

C.I.E. Cash in Everything!

Nostradamus

Judgement Day wrote: »

Travelled on the 13.30 ex.Cork today - MkIVs of course, livery filthy and impossible to see out of the windows. Too many goddamn announcements - especially in Irish - Polish might be more appropriate given the staff make-up!
Approaching Limerick Junction passengers were advised to change for Limerick and Ennis - NO mention that there was also a connection available to Waterford and Enniscorthy - there's a surprise now! The waiting room at Limerick Junction is more pleasant now than in recent years and was actually warm. An hour and a quarter later the 2 piece 'Commuter' railcar set-out for Enniscorthy calling at a semi-derelict Tipperary (with nice new roof); Cahir (with its locked shut waiting shelter and toilet); Clonmel boarded up again after its recent renovation (brand new roof) and on to semi-derelict Carrick-on-Suir. Waterford resplendent as ever (Fastrack office recently shoved into where the railway exhibition was housed) and evidence of building work having started on the 'outrageous' new station development. On into the Twilight Zone of the South Wexford line - the only station with a building left is Wellington Bridge and surely not for much longer - eventually we arrived at Rosslare Harbour according to the p.a. but Rosslare Europort according to the signs! Eventually D.G. was reached at 19.42 - Vintage pre-war rail travel at its best. A handful of passengers on the train reflecting the non-marketing of the route and the appalling stock, track etc rather than a lack of demand. I suspect that I am one of the few inhabitants of D.G. who even now that there is train to Waterford - certainly it has never been publicised at the station or in the local media.

C.I.E. Cash in Everything!

Good post. Says it al really.

nd001

Would there be any merit in irish rail providing more long distance services ie Cork-Belfast calling at (mallow,limerick Junction,portarlington,kildare),via phoenix park tunnel (connolly stn,drogheda,newry,belfast). The reason for the specific intermediate stns as they are all interchange stns to other lines. The stopover in connolly would provide a stopping point for crew changeover etc. Running time would be approximately 5hrs including a 15 min layover in connolly.

I am wondering if this service could compete with airline connections as in britain with hourly long haul rail departures from london to glasgow,edinburgh with would have similar journey times

Rawr

nd001 wrote: »

Would there be any merit in irish rail providing more long distance services ie Cork-Belfast calling at (mallow,limerick Junction,portarlington,kildare),via phoenix park tunnel (connolly stn,drogheda,newry,belfast). The reason for the specific intermediate stns as they are all interchange stns to other lines. The stopover in connolly would provide a stopping point for crew changeover etc. Running time would be approximately 5hrs including a 15 min layover in connolly.

I am wondering if this service could compete with airline connections as in britain with hourly long haul rail departures from london to glasgow,edinburgh with would have similar journey times

I suppose if it worked out cheaper than flying....

dowlingm

We're wandering a bit from the topic but...

It would mean that Cork-Dublin trains would have been fitted with NI safety systems for one thing (although my view is that an all-island ERTMS should be the goal so all trains can go more or less anywhere).

However, there's no real point in talking about Belfast-Dublin-Cork service until the service is faster, not as a matter of top speed which is what is usually touted, but in segregation from low speed traffic and in elimination of speed restricted sections. That means expanding the Kildare Route Project and adding track on the northern line, maybe also express bypass track between Rush and Drogheda/Newry and Lisburn.

Among other things, a PPT longhaul service would require improved platform capacity at the Heuston side to accommodate long sets, modern accessibility standards (i.e. a straight platform for the west side) and bidirectional operation which one look at the layouts will tell you ain't easy.

grenache

nd001 wrote: »

Would there be any merit in irish rail providing more long distance services

From my viewpoint, I think CIE need to concentrate on getting old existing infrastructure back running again, such as the abandoned Limerick - Tralee line, or the Athlone to Mullingar line. Most people who clog the roads are on short-medium length journeys and if there was a fast alternative mode of transport available, then i'm sure these routes could be profitable.

IIMII

dowlingm wrote: »

We're wandering a bit from the topic but...

It would mean that Cork-Dublin trains would have been fitted with NI safety systems for one thing (although my view is that an all-island ERTMS should be the goal so all trains can go more or less anywhere).

However, there's no real point in talking about Belfast-Dublin-Cork service until the service is faster, not as a matter of top speed which is what is usually touted, but in segregation from low speed traffic and in elimination of speed restricted sections. That means expanding the Kildare Route Project and adding track on the northern line, maybe also express bypass track between Rush and Drogheda/Newry and Lisburn.

Among other things, a PPT longhaul service would require improved platform capacity at the Heuston side to accommodate long sets, modern accessibility standards (i.e. a straight platform for the west side) and bidirectional operation which one look at the layouts will tell you ain't easy.

Would be great to see though, and in many ways makes a huge amount of sense. It seems a bit daft that Belfast - Dublin - Cork doesn't form a single hi-speed line. But sure I suppose that's what the motorway network is doing

Cool Mo D

Really, it's such a shame that Irish Rail won't try and integrate their services even a little bit. They wouldn't even have to spend more than a few quid. If Cork-Dublin and Dublin-Cork trains arrived in the Junction at around the same time, with connections to Limerick, Ennis and Waterford leaving at the same time, it would enable a huge amount of useful journeys, that would be at least semi-competitive with the car.
I mean, who goes Cork-Limerick, or Cork-Waterford on the train now. It's just not done. But all it requires is Irish Rail to pull the finger out, and show some initiative.
A Cork - Dublin line upgraded to 200kmh operation would make all these journeys even quicker.