Intel to Cut 5,000+ jobs but Ireland escapes

Villain

Looks like Intel are feeling the worldwide recession, luckily Ireland has escaped for now at least!!!

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7844232.stm

Intel shedding up to 6,000 jobs

Intel has been hit by the global fall in computer spending

Chipmaker Intel is closing five plants in the US and Asia, with the loss of between 5,000 and 6,000 jobs, as it responds to falling computer sales.

The facilities to close are its factory in Santa Clara, California - its last in Silicon Valley - and sister sites in Oregon, Malaysia and the Philippines.

Intel said the two US factories were based on older microchip technology.

The announcement comes a week after Intel reported a 90% fall in profits for the last three months of 2008.

Intel's profit for the quarter totalled $234m (£160m), down from $2.3bn a year earlier.

In addition to falling computer sales, the firm said it was being affected by the growth in popularity of super-small laptops, known as "netbooks", as they use lower profit margin smaller and slower chips.

'Good step'

Intel said the decision to close the five plants - including two sites in Malaysia - would not affect continuing investment in its more modern manufacturing facilities.

"The market will welcome these actions - this is absolutely a good step," said Doug Freedman, a computer analyst with Broadpoint Amtech.

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing, one of Intel's smaller rivals, also announced on Thursday that it was being hit by the global fall in demand for computer products.

It reported a 64% fall in quarterly profits.

also see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/22/intel_to_shut_down_five_plants_4kto5k_affected/

x in the city

That's not too surprising, Intels FABs in Kildare are worth billions, they cant just close them.

I think they have just a few facilities like that in the world.

They got rid of redundant obsolete plants and are concentrating on upcoming processors, lucky Ireland

Villain

x in the city wrote: »

That's not too surprising, Intels FABs in Kildare are worth billions, they cant just close them.

I think they have just a few facilities like that in the world.

They got rid of redundant obsolete plants and are concentrating on upcoming processors, lucky Ireland

x in the City you do realise that Fab 10 and Fab 14 only do nand now?

x in the city

x in the City you do realise that Fab 10 and Fab 14 only do nand now?

well thats too bad I guess, but I am referring to the new FABs.

Excuse my ignorance, butHow many are working in the older FABs?

Villain

I don't have any figures but still quite a few people directly or indirectly working in IFO, FAB24 and FAB24-2 are very much state of the art plants but I wouldn't have though FAB20 (which is to be closed) was old technology

x in the city

I see, but it was hardly surprising, its a cut throat world out there.

Intel would be concentrating on next gen multicore processors mainly now, Id say other parts of their business would be secondary, however that effects kildare I dont know.

Villain

Well there was talk of upgrading IFO to support the latest automation but I'd imagine thats unlikely at the moment, closing IFO would result in a couple of thousand job losses I'd reckon, I'm not certain what the plans for it are though

Villain

Just checked Fab20 wasn't upgraded so it was 200mm

doolox

Fab 10 and Fab14 were still old technology up to Nov 1997 when I took redundancy and left there.
Fab 24 is new (300mm) technology and highly unlikely to be closed but it only has jobs for graduates as far as I know. There is very little hands-on work for non graduates in the new fabs and every thing is done by machine once they are up and running.
The trend is towards outsourcing all routine maintenance work and hiring only temporary contingent labour for the junior roles in these places.
No future or ability to get a mortgage in that situation.
Overall Ireland is threatened by high wage costs, high energy costs and high transport costs but these companys must have some presence in the EU to continue to do business here.

Tom Dunne

doolox wrote: »

Fab 10 and Fab14 were still old technology up to Nov 1997 when I took redundancy and left there.

Both have been updated and are currently making flash memory. Not exactly old technology.

doolox wrote: »

Fab 24 is new (300mm) technology and highly unlikely to be closed but it only has jobs for graduates as far as I know.

Not true. There are a wide range of jobs, most of which inside the fab do not require a degree.

doolox wrote: »

There is very little hands-on work for non graduates in the new fabs and every thing is done by machine once they are up and running.

Not true. Who maintains the machines? Who keeps each of the areas running and responds to problems? Who investigates process problems? Who investigates yield problems? Who looks after automation problems? Who looks at material handling problems?

There is a huge misconception that "teh machines are taking over". Yes, things are a helluva lot more automated, but this automation has to be looked after. (Side note: the heavily automated fabs are part of the reason AMD never seem to be able to catch up on Intel)

doolox wrote: »

The trend is towards outsourcing all routine maintenance work and hiring only temporary contingent labour for the junior roles in these places.

Not true.

The operating model for Intel, and a lot of semiconductor manufacturers is that equipment supplier provides both the machines and the expertise. To the uninitiated, this could look like outsourcing, but it is far from it.

doolox wrote: »

No future or ability to get a mortgage in that situation

I had no problem getting a mortgage when I worked there.

The fundamental difference between Intel Ireland and all the other manufacturing facilities (think Dell) is that the fabs are not like your typical assembly line operations. They are high-technology, high-automation jobs.

I recall a statistic from my days working there that for every one worker inside the fab actually doing the work, there were three support personnel (i.e. Engineering/Automation/facilities).

Villain

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Both have been updated and are currently making flash memory. Not exactly old technology.

The price of Flash memory has nose dived I would be really surprised if IFO continues producing flash for much longer.

I do know that Intel were carrying out a review to see what the viability of upgrading IFO to 300mm was but I haven't heard how that review went??

Tom Dunne

Villain wrote: »

The price of Flash memory has nose dived I would be really surprised if IFO continues producing flash for much longer.

I do know that Intel were carrying out a review to see what the viability of upgrading IFO to 300mm was but I haven't heard how that review went??

There was something I vaguely recall about not being worth the money to upgrade IFO to 300mm. Possibly due to the small size of the old Fab10/Fab14, compared to what a 300mm fab needed (i.e. one big cleanroom vs. two smaller ones). Also to do with the link between them not being big enough, I think.

x in the city

Other seimi factories in asia can probably make flash memory devices for a fraction of what it costs in Kildare tho, so they still have a job on their hands IMO

Tom Dunne

x in the city wrote: »

Other seimi factories in asia can probably make flash memory devices for a fraction of what it costs in Kildare tho, so they still have a job on their hands IMO

That's not necessarily true.

There are two stages to chip manufacture - the highly automated manufacture of the circuits that store your information. This requires a wide range of skilled workers, including IT/Physics/Chemistry/Electronics etc. Intel always carries out this type of work in the US/Ireland/Israel where such employees are more readily available in the numbers required.

The second stage is the labour intensive stage where the chips are cut up and place into packaging that is inserted into electronic devices such as mobile phones/mp3 players. This is the part that is typically done in low-cost economies such as the Asia. There was such a facility in Ireland, but it didn't last too long.

Another point worth noting is that Intel do not make cutting-edge chips in non-Western countries, as the intellectual copyright laws are a lot less stringent. Basically, they fear somebody ripping off their manufacturing process and making the same chips cheaper. I believe there is also something to do with the US government forbidding high-tech US companies from doing so, not so sure on this point.

So, as I alluded to in my previous post, Intel is not like any of the other computer manufacturing-type facilities in Ireland. It isn't simply a case of doing what Dell did, there is a lot more to it.

grahamo

Worked there in the 90's, workforce was all graduates so highly skilled people working in the fabs in Intel Ireland. They would be mad to let skills like that go. Also, those fabs cost a fortune to build so its highly unlikely they are going to up sticks and move away.

ongarite

Some of what Tom Dunne says its true about Intel Ireland and the nature of manufacturing in Ireland but I do fear for its future as a contractor on-site myself.
FAB10 is doomed and will close in the future. Its not upgradable to new process, manufacturing requirements. Nearly all the other 200mm FABs like it have closed down or been sold off.
FAB14 will more than likely be upgraded in the future beginning 2010-2011 hopefully and this will guarantee same level of employement in Ireland for another 5 yrs.

The area is disagree with Tom is in regard to FAB24 and its uncertain future.

Another point worth noting is that Intel do not make cutting-edge chips in non-Western countries, as the intellectual copyright laws are a lot less stringent. Basically, they fear somebody ripping off their manufacturing process and making the same chips cheaper. I believe there is also something to do with the US government forbidding high-tech US companies from doing so, not so sure on this point.

Intel are currently building a FAB in China that will be in direct competition with FAB24. It will have all the same equipment and make the same product that FAB24 does. At present, there are lots of Intel China employees on site training up on all the FAB24 process, automation and equipment systems.

leeroybrown

F10 and F14 may have cost a fortune to setup at the time but as it stands they're operating on 200mm wafers in an industry where even lower end production is now starting to be dominated by 300mm wafers. Gutting F10 and F14 to add a new materials handling system for 300mm wafers and re-tooling the entire fab with modern equipment would require an enormous investment. Questions would certainly come up in relation to the fact that F10 and F14 are two loosely connected buildings, the cost of upgrading plant associated with the fab, the enormous cost of electricity here, etc. In recent years Intel's investment appears to have taken the form of building brand new fabs then as seen with F20 closing the old one.

Intel appear to have a history of investing in production capacity during downturns so now will probably be the time that they'll be making strategic decisions about Leixlip's future.

leeroybrown

ongarite wrote: »

Intel are currently building a FAB in China that will be in direct competition with FAB24. It will have all the same equipment and make the same product that FAB24 does. At present, there are lots of Intel China employees on site training up on all the FAB24 process, automation and equipment systems.

I'd suggest that while F24 can still make product at a reasonable wafer cost it'll have production. It'll be a while yet before 450mm wafers come into use and they're tooled to produce relatively recent processes.

Tom Dunne

ongarite wrote: »

Intel are currently building a FAB in China that will be in direct competition with FAB24. It will have all the same equipment and make the same product that FAB24 does. At present, there are lots of Intel China employees on site training up on all the FAB24 process, automation and equipment systems.

Not true, I'm afraid.

Ok, this is bordering on obsessive with me, but I rang a current Intel employee who is on his way to China to the new fab in the next month or two (just to check my facts). He confirmed they will be two generations behind for the exact reasons I outlined. So the China fab is not a threat to Ireland.

Yes, it's a quiet Friday here.

ongarite

Sorry Tom thats completely untrue.
I know this for a fact as the company I work for have shipped off 2 tools from FAB24 to be installed in FAB68 in China. My company will be sending over another 10 tools from FAB24 to FAB68 this year along with every other equipment supplier.

Intel FAB68 will be doing 1262/1264 process chips using under-utilised equipment from FAB24.

Its a quiet Friday here in FAB24 because FAB24 is not running any product and is completely idle.

Tom Dunne

ongarite wrote: »

Sorry Tom thats completely untrue.
I know this for a fact as the company I work for have shipped off 2 tools from FAB24 to be installed in FAB68 in China. My company will be sending over another 10 tools from FAB24 to FAB68 this year along with every other equipment supplier.

Intel FAB68 will be doing 1262/1264 process chips using under-utilised equipment from FAB24.

Its a quiet Friday here in FAB24 because FAB24 is not running any product and is completely idle.

Just because they are using the same equipment, doesn't mean they will be running the same process.

I was in Fab24 for the startup of 1264 and that was a few years ago when dual core processors were first being introduced. Are you saying Fab24 is still running 1264? Wasn't that a 90nm process? A quick Google suggests the 90nm process was used to make the Pentium 4 processor, not exactly the latest technology.

ongarite

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Just because they are using the same equipment, doesn't mean they will be running the same process.

I was in Fab24 for the startup of 1264 and that was a few years ago when dual core processors were first being introduced. Are you saying Fab24 is still running 1264? Wasn't that a 90nm process? A quick Google suggests the 90nm process was used to make the Pentium 4 processor, not exactly the latest technology.

Exactly Tom, now you have got it. Intel Ireland has not made a cutting edge chip for Intel in over a year. Its doing cheap chipsets now.
1262=90nm (Pentuim 4 dual core) 4 generation old tech
1264-65nm (Core processor) 3 generation old tech

If you want to talk more about this, PM would be better.

Tom Dunne

Ok, I'll drop it now.

But my point about China/Asia not making the latest technology was correct.

I was incorrect in assuming Fab24 had moved on since I left. Obviously it hasn't.

TheBigLebowski

ongarite wrote: »

Intel are currently building a FAB in China that will be in direct competition with FAB24. It will have all the same equipment and make the same product that FAB24 does. At present, there are lots of Intel China employees on site training up on all the FAB24 process, automation and equipment systems.

This is completely untrue on all fronts. Definitely no China employess in FAB24.

Tom Dunne is mostly correct in what he is saying. However, Intel Ireland is making current technology including Core 2. FAB24 is also moving forward and may be in the running for 1270 process. Intel Ireland produced 34different products in 2008.

Dictator

I see that Barrett was on the TV yesterday, no job cuts for Ireland, fantastic

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0128/intel.html

leeroybrown

Sorry to drag this one back up but it's better than going through the whole wafer technology discussion (that people can read above rather than re-posting) again.

Intel have just announced (press release) that they will be investing $7bn upgrading a number of their US based fabs. If you consider the long history of the Democrats encouraging US based investment rather than FDI and recent commitment that the US made to Israel, this announcement appears to leave Ireland out in the cold from the long term point of view. As I already pointed out in this thread Intel have a long history of investing during economic downturns but there's only so much top-end production capacity that you need. To my mind that announcement looks like a near future filled with ageing technologies and chipsets for Leixlip.

whatisayis

leeroybrown wrote: »

.Intel have just announced (press release) that they will be investing $7bn upgrading a number of their US based fabs. If you consider the long history of the Democrats encouraging US based investment rather than FDI and recent commitment that the US made to Israel, this announcement appears to leave Ireland out in the cold from the long term point of view. As I already pointed out in this thread Intel have a long history of investing during economic downturns but there's only so much top-end production capacity that you need. To my mind that announcement looks like a near future filled with ageing technologies and chipsets for Leixlip.

They haven't mentioned China but these articles may also unfortunately not bode well for Leixlip.

http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800506869_480200_NT_fdeb6b30.HTM
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200703/29/eng20070329_362184.html

McDermotX

250-300 voluntary redundancies on the run up to summer..
That's the early word..
Just warming up for later in the year..

Victor McDade

McDermotX wrote: »

250-300 voluntary redundancies on the run up to summer..
That's the early word..
Just warming up for later in the year..

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0217/intel.html

ongarite

McDermotX wrote: »

250-300 voluntary redundancies on the run up to summer..
That's the early word..
Just warming up for later in the year..

Yep not unexpected, people were expecting the news about job cuts in January
Ocotober is make or break for IFO (FAB10-14). Big decision then on its and Intel Ireland's future.

leeroybrown

As I see it there are three main possibilities here:

1) Intel are staging a slow withdrawal where they'll run a series of voluntary packages in that range resulting in IFO closing as soon as those processes are phased out and FAB24 moving to legacy production like IFO for a number of years until the whole setup closes.

2) They're moving to the future staff level they see for FAB24 (and possibly IFO) with extra investment.

3) They're not yet decided between (1) and (2) and are negotiating with the government about it.

dobsdave

ongarite wrote: »

Yep not unexpected, people were expecting the news about job cuts in January
Ocotober is make or break for IFO (FAB10-14). Big decision then on its and Intel Ireland's future.

Where are you getting the October date from?
Ireland are no 1 in line for 1270 process if anyone gets it.
The 7bn investment is for 1266 and 68 upgrades in the three fabs in the U.S.

barongreen

bumping this back up as there are rumours circulating starting from an artucle in one of the sunday papers that more redundancies are afoot

everybody

Everyone there I've spoken to in IFO is expecting it to happen, I'm hearing its more likely to be early next year... Intel are notoriously slow to move to redundancy and have the cash reserves to carry folks until they are sure they are no longer needed..
IFO are making old products on old platforms, low volumes also...it cannot be a supprise to anyone when it closes..