Cutting Defence Force Expenditure

segaBOY

We're all too aware of the Government's serious budget deficit and the impact it is having on spending.

Just wondering if PDF/RDF personnel here have any ideas on how expenditure can be cut whilst having a minimal impact on the running of the DF. I think the closing of Longford and Monaghan Barracks along with St. Bricin's Hospital is very sad to see and perhaps unnessecary if the DF spending was better controlled.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Donny5

I'm thinking RDF Officers would be a good place to start.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Arent Lifford and Rockhill in Donegal closing too?

Disregarding your little petty disclaimer, there was absolutely no need for the number of barracks in operation in this country prior to the ongoing cuts. The number of barracks now is about right in my opinion.

segaBOY

Donny5 wrote: »

I'm thinking RDF Officers would be a good place to start.

How much do they actually cost though? About 1-2k a year in wages, maybe 3k max per head

segaBOY

Kamila Quiet Comedienne wrote: »

Arent Lifford and Rockhill in Donegal closing too?

Disregarding your little petty disclaimer, there was absolutely no need for the number of barracks in operation in this country prior to the ongoing cuts. The number of barracks now is about right in my opinion.

Yes they are too. It makes sense, peace in the 6 counties no real need for those barracks but St. Bricin's Hospital? Also if there was ever a need to vastly expand the DF (like the Emergency) those barracks would cost much more to start up again than they saved in the first place.

Regarding the disclaimer, fine I'll remove it

g5fd6ow0hseima

Well you see, the governments ideology of thinking for today without planning for tomorrow is nothing new. I agree with your view on Bricins alright, but this government is just looking to pull the plug on anything it can get away with. Its reckless planning and ignorance on behalf of the Irish government of the past decade which is the cause of situations like this.

Donny5

segaBOY wrote: »

How much do they actually cost though? About 1-2k a year in wages, maybe 3k max per head

Don't forget the thousands of man hours bad officers waste.

trentf

If we do any more cuts we won't have an army left. We already have the 4th smallest army in all of Europe, a joke, cyprus has as many soldiers as we do and we're slowly but surely dwarfing it even further.

The funny thing is the government and general population actually think we have a normal sized defence force...we don't its a token gesture force at best.

Poccington

We're under equipped, under manned and under funded as it is.

With more cuts to come, we're absolutely ****ed.

BigDuffman

My 2 cents

The barrack closures where too long coming and I support that fully. Sell off useless and underused barracks (eg. Tralee as its not fit for human habitation, even refugees refused to stay there).

Cut RDF pay. I'm all for re-numeration as people give up work to do it, but its essentially a volunteer force. Introduce annual ITs that if failed twice, the individual in question can be discharged/ not paid.

Freeze RDF recruitment for a year. Coupled with the aforementioned ITs, cut away as much deadwood as possible.

I don't know enough about what exactly the horsey boys do but it never seemed logical to have a unit that ponces around the world going to horse shows. Yeah sure it might have a bit of PR value attached but hardly worth the amount spent sustaining it.

Push all the useless hangers-on, 90 year-old gatemen and Storemen Mao's in the PDF into retirement. Cut away the deadwood.

Do we really still need AML's?

concussion

BigDuffman wrote: »

Do we really still need AML's?

The French have a rake of them in Chad so I would seem they are still useful...but maybe you mean 'Do we really still need AML's if they're not supporting troops overseas??'
The new CRV's and MRV's probably fill that role, so maybe we don't need 'em at all. Although I believe an AML 90 came in handy in Lebanon before...


As for RDF pay, I don't mind unpaid weekends, but there's no way I can afford to spend 2/4/6 weeks training without pay.

Rew

Make the banks pay the full whack for CIT

manafana

Right my 50p on subject the barracks in cavan anyway are top class. They get train and they more than well paid some of them too much for the time they now put into army especially higher up.
But the lower ranks do things such as prison officer cover, at wages much lower than the prision officers while having stay withing the grounds, the also do the money transport safety.
I think yes cuts should be mad but also the army should remain with reasonable budget to do these tasks.

Another thing that should be gotten rid of is border allowance, basically to pay for soldliers for bomb scares its in place from the 70's, thing is now its in place for no reason, but rumour has it every time some kind goes been while since bomb scare some army boys get someone put through call for fake bomb warning as such to keep the border allowance.

BigDuffman

concussion wrote: »

The French have a rake of them in Chad so I would seem they are still useful...but maybe you mean 'Do we really still need AML's if they're not supporting troops overseas??'
The new CRV's and MRV's probably fill that role, so maybe we don't need 'em at all. Although I believe an AML 90 came in handy in Lebanon before...


As for RDF pay, I don't mind unpaid weekends, but there's no way I can afford to spend 2/4/6 weeks training without pay.

Took the words (that I didn't say) right out of my mouth. I dont see a point in maintaining armoured vehicles that aren't out where there needed.

I'd never suggest not paying out for 2weeks camp etc. but there are certain periods of training, weekends and other training days should be undertaken by the people in question to improve their skills not earn a few shillings.

Hours should be cut, 5/6weeks on army pay is not justifiable. The majority of lads who can commit to this level of involvement are students/unemployed who would not be earning that amount of money in the 1st place!

In saying that as a student I put in 5+wks before over a summer. I had no problem taking the money back then:D. But now, when there is major cuts across the board, I'd prefer a cut back in RDF hours than a Garda or a Nurse having to take a hit.

concussion

BigDuffman wrote: »

Hours should be cut, 5/6weeks on army pay is not justifiable. The majority of lads who can commit to this level of involvement are students/unemployed who would not be earning that amount of money in the 1st place!

I can't agree with you there - as a student if I didn't get paid by the DF then I would be working somewhere else. It's not like I'm sitting around doing nothing, waiting to do a course.

4/5/6/8 weeks is justifiable if the course is that long (eg arty gun commanders course or radar course). Equally justifiable is doing several shorter courses if no-one else wants or is suitable for it. I agree there are going to be cut-backs and the RDF isn't high on justifiable expenditure but see no problem with individuals doing the maximum amount if the mandays which are assigned to the unit are not being used by other people - ie the dead wood who never turn up or only appear for camp.

Rew

RDF pay is being cut, man days are going to be alot harder to come by this year.

trellheim

RDF pay rates are the same as PDF 1st point of scale.

No surprise on Mandays.

BigDuffman

any word on the exact amount of man days?

trellheim

None as yet. It is likely the Cabinet cuts will drive it.

concussion

I heard a 25% cut