WIT Protest against Fees

Sully

For those of you who don't read the WIT forum and take an interest in this..

A protest is being held tomorrow at 11am against the governments intention of bringing in college fees. A large gathering is apparently expected to march from the college down the quays.

I am told that classes have been cancelled during the period the march is on.

Will hit home with the local college and the Students Union are sending out the image that by introducing fees your reducing the number of degrees etc.

BlaasForRafa

They've increased taxes on the working population so an increase in college fees is fair enough. Its up to everyone to do their bit in these economic circumstances

Cabaal

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

They've increased taxes on the working population so an increase in college fees is fair enough. Its up to everyone to do their bit in these economic circumstances

I'd tend to agree really, college and school costs in Ireland are nothing compared to those in other countrys such as the USA, if somebody needs to raise the money for the fees then just do a summer job and get the money that way.....most people do a job of some sort anyway during summer months and in later school years

All that drink money students often spend* could go towards paying there fees instead of down the toilet

*No all students drink likes fish's

ziedth

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

They've increased taxes on the working population so an increase in college fees is fair enough. Its up to everyone to do their bit in these economic circumstances

TBF I see your point but it's not exactly the same thing.

Lets say for example the average (By average I mean when I was in college) works 20-24 Hours a week and pulls out about the €250 in wages and doesn't get a grant or much help from home. Now When they tried to bring in these fee's then they were going to be like 3k a year so i'll assume they are proposing the same amount.

So that is going to essentially be "TAX" of 12 weeks of their full wages. So if the goverment will turn around and charge us all 5-6k in "TAX" next september would we be saying that we have to do out bit.

I do think that Fee's have to come in but the Goverment just can't turn around and say oh that will by 3k by the way. IMO, they need to say look in however many years time we are introducing fee's like it or lump it by we are starting up an incentive so that you can save €50 a week for the next however many years.

christophicus

Completely agree with you. I've been told it will be over 5000 euro for a year. . I am half way through a degree atm. I am ****ed if these fees come in. There is no way I will be able to raise over 5 grand ( possibly more ) for next September.

This is a pretty idiotic move by the government. I would not be at all surprised if college numbers drop by a third or more. We are supposedly promoting a knowledge economy in this country, and especially with the current global economic conditions we should be looking to provide the highly skilled employees ( even more so then we have been providing over the last 10/15 years )that would attract companies to the country. The government expects to do this by reducing the number of people going to college ?

You gotta love our government all right.......

gscully

They're all gonna walk into town?

Where are they gonna leave their cars???

Cabaal

gscully wrote: »

They're all gonna walk into town?

Where are they gonna leave their cars???

Around Lismore park?

robtri

No offence to any student, but good enough...... Students have it too easy in general...
I do have pity for the students that honestly cannot afford it, and would like to see something done for them, but I am talking the real cases, not the usual student, who will be out protesting today,
they want us to pay for their education, so a lot can emigrate and not contribute anything to the economy of the future,

a lot of them want grants...

the student bars are packed.... but they cannot afford the fees..

a lot of them drive again, they can afford the car, petrol, taxes etc...

a lot of them take holidays abroad during the year...

a good few students can afford rent, yet their home is within commutable distance of the college, they just don't want to live with mammy and daddy so they can party hard....

they seriously need a reality check and told where to F***ing go....

Cabaal

While robtri's post doesn't apply to 100% of students it certainly does apply to a fair amount, we all know what students are like drink wise etc hell most of us used to be one so you can't say it doesn't happen

There's plenty of students our there that can afford these fees yet they'll be out protesting with those that really truly can not.

robtri

Cabaal wrote: »

While robtri's post doesn't apply to 100% of students it certainly does apply to a fair amount, we all know what students are like drink wise etc hell most of us used to be one so you can't say it doesn't happen

There's plenty of students our there that can afford these fees yet they'll be out protesting with those that really truly can not.

Sorry I hope I made it clear, my post wasn't intended to label all students...

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

ziedth

robtri wrote: »

they want us to pay for their education, so a lot can emigrate and not contribute anything to the economy of the future,

a lot of them want grants...

the student bars are packed.... but they cannot afford the fees..

a lot of them drive again, they can afford the car, petrol, taxes etc...

a lot of them take holidays abroad during the year...

a good few students can afford rent, yet their home is within commutable distance of the college, they just don't want to live with mammy and daddy so they can party hard....

they seriously need a reality check and told where to F***ing go....

I have to agree with you here, The ones who get grants then emigrate is a red button for me.

Surely the answer though is a much more tightly controlled grant system, Because what is going to happen is the students who can afford it but somehow get a grant because of some loophole won't pay a bean.

well butty

Maybe the Governmet could use their newly aquired bank (Anglo Irish) to give students loans that could be paid back once they are gainfully employed.

shapez

I agree with the introduction of the fees also. I know friends in the states that have anything between $20,000 & $50,000 loans to pay back after the graduate from Uni.

It's back to the hard fact of life, I guess. I had to pay fees when I started college then about a year later they were abolished. Yes, it's hard and yes I do feel for people who genuinely cannot afford them and want a good education. But, it's the same with everyhting at the moment isn't it. We can't have it all the easy way.

CantGetNoSleep

I am a student, and have close friends in both the UK and USA - my English friends are £12,000 in debt while my American friends are around $90,000 in debt at the same stage as me, yet I owe no one anything and have been away every summer since I started college and my parents aren't exactly millionaires or even anywhere near it, so I agree that we have it handy compared to some countries

But if fees are brought in it will have to be through some sort of a loan system where you pay it back once you are earning over a certain amount, if it was decided that students must pay €7,000 to enroll in September you can be certain that over half of students would be forced to drop out, people simply do not have that sort of money lying around

stick-dan

Can someone please tell me this because i am confused. Thiese fees coming in how much are they? If you are already on a grant what does that mean. I too am going into my fourth year of my course in september and i know i wont be able to raise 7000. I'm on a grant, im not a student who has their mammy and daddy to pay for everything.I don't drink or smoke and all my summer money pays for my house. I pay my own way through. I'm just wondering will i have to defer? Will my grant pay it? What is the story?Anyone enlighten me to this?It's completely unfair. I heard that the fees only apply to those who are over a certain earning bracket is this true also?

Will it affect those of us in courses already.

CantGetNoSleep

stick-dan wrote: »

Can someone please tell me this because i am confused. Thiese fees coming in how much are they? If you are already on a grant what does that mean. I too am going into my fourth year of my course in september and i know i wont be able to raise 7000. I'm on a grant, im not a student who has their mammy and daddy to pay for everything.I don't drink or smoke and all my summer money pays for my house. I pay my own way through. I'm just wondering will i have to defer? Will my grant pay it? What is the story?Anyone enlighten me to this?It's completely unfair. I heard that the fees only apply to those who are over a certain earning bracket is this true also?

Will it affect those of us in courses already.

Yes, nothing has been decided yet, although it is likely that fees will be introduced very soon, starting with families earning over €100,000 or so, however given the current economic situation it is likely that this limit would soon be lowered and the grant scheme may be cut back

It was also announced in the budget that the college registration fee would be increased from €~800 to €~1500, meaning that most students will have to pay around €~1650 at the start of next September, this is without the new fees being brought in, however grant students are exempt from registration fees

well butty

Third level education is being used by some students who just don't want to work. They start a course, realise they don't like it. Quit after a year or two and start another one (at tax payer's expense). Put a charge in place and weed out the ones that weaken the quality of degrees that are issued. Support the disadvantaged students by providing Government backed loans. This will ensure that the ones that do take up the option of spending 3-5 years in college will value it and work hard at succeeding.

dlofnep

Just back now. Got absolutely soaked. Great turnout though!

stick-dan

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Yes, nothing has been decided yet, although it is likely that fees will be introduced very soon, starting with families earning over €100,000 or so, however given the current economic situation it is likely that this limit would soon be lowered and the grant scheme may be cut back

It was also announced in the budget that the college registration fee would be increased from €~800 to €~1500, meaning that most students will have to pay around €~1650 at the start of next September, this is without the new fees being brought in, however grant students are exempt from registration fees

So if you're being assessed and you only earn about ~40,000 this won't affect you is this correct?

Sully

President of USI doesnt think that it will be means tested despite whats being made out by Batt.

merlante

Landing students in debt before they even have the necessary qualifications (or time) to earn a proper salary is bloody stupid and all it does is foist some of our current financial shortfall on future workers, who will also have to pay our oh so helpful and responsible banking institutions a chunk of interest. If anyone has to go into debt for this then we've gone backwards as a country.

On the other hand, I'm not against families who are bringing in 100,000+ euro a year paying fees that rise with income (up to a point). These families can afford to pay and -- my socialist side coming out here -- there's no point in giving them free education when all they're doing is using the money saved to put their kids through grind schools so they can beat the poor/average to the best college places.

On the other other hand, what if you are 18+ years of age, with rich parents that won't lift a finger to help you financially? Can you dis-include your parents for means testing if they are not contributing? After all, the state can't force your parents to pay, even if they can force you to pay.

In short, I think that fees are a good idea for the wealthy, as long as the system is sensible and is sensitive to individual situations where people are in danger of falling through the cracks. Third level education, for those who are willing and able, is and should be a fundamental right in this country. A lot of the people here have already benefitted from it, even if some of us had a hard enough time paying for capitation, rent, books, food and yes, socialising, as it was.

twkm05

Its not surprising to see all you jealous fuc.kers given out bout students. Before i even read the post I guessed youd have sum ppl in their 30s and 40s given out about us.

For the amount of money that this country accumulated over the last 10 years there shouldnt be an excuse to charge student fees.
We are going to turn back to the 70s and 80s now when only the rich fuc.kers went to college.
Dont get me wrong i agree that theres plenty of cu.nts that drive cars in college and have money to burn but for ppl like me next yr will be impossible if i dont get my grant.

My mother is disabled and father deceased so theres no income at all apart from the VEC grant every few months.
You probably say "work" if you want to live. Well thats not feasable in my course.

If rich bast.ards can get the parents allowance etc then students shoulnt have to pay fees.

This country should be ashamed of itself. It has been run by a pack of monkeys since the 90s and it has finally went down the toilet.

Bards

If fees have to be introduicing then I would prefer the system they have in Australia - A Graduate tax/Levy which is linked to the graduate's future pay for a variable amount of time depending how many years were spent in college.

Brian Hayes also agrees with this
===========================
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1122/1227293432163.html


THE INTRODUCTION of a graduate tax or levy as a means of funding third-level education instead of the return of college fees has been proposed by Fine Gael spokesman on education, Brian Hayes.

In a speech to the Fine Gael national conference in Wexford last night, Mr Hayes outlined his plan whereby graduates would pay a contribution, deductible at source, for a number of years after they entered the labour force.

One way of doing this would be through an extra PRSI charge. Mr Hayes said: "Paying a small proportion of your income over a period after you graduate, although difficult to sell, would in my view be a fairer solution to this issue."

Noting that the recent Budget had increased college registration charges from €900 to €1,500, Mr Hayes said: "Whatever happens in the future, this party will never support the reintroduction of fees, I give you my word on that." The increase in registration charges was "a regressive stealth tax that is designed to plug a financial hole that is now emerging in many third-level colleges".

However, Mr Hayes added that the present system could not continue.

"It would be dishonest of me to suggest that the current funding mechanism for higher education in this country is sustainable in the long run.

"More colleges now find themselves in a difficult financial position because funding has not kept pace with the radical increase in numbers, and salary costs now represent a much greater proportion of overall budgets within our universities and institutes."

The income deduction could be ringfenced for higher education, but before a new funding arrangement was put in place, there would have to be fundamental reform of the sector and he hoped to publish a Green Paper on this area.

There should be more rigorous assessment of standards; greater access to third level for students from poorer backgrounds; improved co-operation between colleges; more teaching or student contact hours and greater focus on meeting labour force skill requirements.

"We're not going back to the reintroduction of fees; I have given you an assurance on that. I am equally against a loan system, as I believe that it's overly bureaucratic and would discourage students to participate in higher education as they would be saddled with significant amounts of debt just after leaving college," he said.

He suggested it was not unreasonable "to ask graduates to pay a contribution, deductible at source, for a number of years after they enter the labour force? One way of making a contribution could be through the existing PRSI system, it's one option amongst many.

"Paying a small proportion of your income over a period after you graduate, although difficult to sell, would in my view be a fairer solution to this issue. There are many ways you could do this.

"Whatever system you put in place needs to be clear, straightforward and above all else encourages students to go to and stay in college. We don't need new agencies to administer this. Making a contribution at source means that a new fund could be ringfenced for the sole use of higher education," Mr Hayes said.

© 2008 The Irish Times

dlofnep

Oh that's a great incentive to graduate :rolleyes:

BlaasForRafa

shapez wrote: »

I agree with the introduction of the fees also. I know friends in the states that have anything between $20,000 & $50,000 loans to pay back after the graduate from Uni.

It's back to the hard fact of life, I guess. I had to pay fees when I started college then about a year later they were abolished. Yes, it's hard and yes I do feel for people who genuinely cannot afford them and want a good education. But, it's the same with everyhting at the moment isn't it. We can't have it all the easy way.

Indeed, the intention of further educaton is that the student would end up getting a better paid job at the end of it.

Why should paye workers on or below the average industrial wage subsidise the cost of students who get a free education and then go on to earn more than them? Fairs fair, perhaps student loans would be better than grants but some kind of payback is needed, especially now that there are going to be less people in work to share the burden

BlaasForRafa

twkm05 wrote: »

Its not surprising to see all you jealous fuc.kers given out bout students. Before i even read the post I guessed youd have sum ppl in their 30s and 40s given out about us.

For the amount of money that this country accumulated over the last 10 years there shouldnt be an excuse to charge student fees.
We are going to turn back to the 70s and 80s now when only the rich fuc.kers went to college.
Dont get me wrong i agree that theres plenty of cu.nts that drive cars in college and have money to burn but for ppl like me next yr will be impossible if i dont get my grant.

My mother is disabled and father deceased so theres no income at all apart from the VEC grant every few months.
You probably say "work" if you want to live. Well thats not feasable in my course.

If rich bast.ards can get the parents allowance etc then students shoulnt have to pay fees.

This country should be ashamed of itself. It has been run by a pack of monkeys since the 90s and it has finally went down the toilet.

We're the ones paying the TAXES that get you through college. Your bad manners are indicating that our money is not being well spent.

dlofnep

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

We're the ones paying the TAXES that get you through college. Your bad manners are indicating that our money is not being well spent.

I've been working since I was 14, paying taxes since I was 18 - started college as a mature student.. I'm pretty sure I've paid my own taxes. And the taxes that we will pay later on in life will more than cover our costs as a single person. You can keep your taxes tbh. I'm sure you've never benefitted from the collective country's taxes before... Roads, public services, transport, etc... right?

alpha2zulu

Im a student at the moment. The facts are that there is a percentage of students who could certainly be capable of paying higher fees.As other have said, even compared with the UK, going to college here is very reasonably priced.If your parents are earning over 100k a year of course you should be making a bigger contribution to running 3rd level colleges.

At the other end of the scale there are others that if fees were increased and if they werent means tested, probably could not afford to go to college.
However in the middle there is also a lot of people who are abuseing the grants system and are purely an unnecssary expense for the government.Even if this is maybe 10/15% of the student population the cost must run into tens of millions countrywide. I know of several people very close to me that direct their grants to drinking money or car insurance etc.

Thats a fact, and for the USI to pretend otherwise is plain false. If the Government think up a sensible system of fees, life will go on, with the result that the tweedy group will probably be the main losers from any rethink.

Dont mean to be a killjoy:D but thats just the way I see it.

Could they not have had the protest on a Saturday or in the evening, that way nobody would have had to miss any classes....priorities eh:rolleyes:

dlofnep

Yeah, because that's what the city needs - Gridlock on a Saturday in town. Marches require approval before they go ahead.

The simple fact of the reality is it already costs 30k+ for a degree per student.. In some cases up to 38K.. With the fees that would go up to 70k.. For middle-earning families you don't take into account multiple children. What if they wanted to send 2 children? €140,000 - It doesn't seem so feasible now, does it? And then what about children who want to go to college but their parents have financial strain over bills and can't afford it? What happens if a parent loses their job during the current economic crisis, resulting in a child having to drop out of college?

For a good economy, education must be free! It's our tax that everyone will benefit from in a few years. Think long-term, not short term.

Jack burton

Well in my opinion it is bad but then again it will stop people doing F***k all in college, i work a lot and still go to my lectures and it makes me sick to see these F&£"$"%&$ wasters in my class, " ah i wasnt in yesterday, too hungover " charge them 5000 and see how hungover they are then.

dlofnep

Jack burton wrote: »

Well in my opinion it is bad but then again it will stop people doing F***k all in college, i work a lot and still go to my lectures and it makes me sick to see these F&£"$"%&$ wasters in my class, " ah i wasnt in yesterday, too hungover " charge them 5000 and see how hungover they are then.

And how do you introduce such a system? Means test people based on alcohol abuse?

alpha2zulu

For a good economy, education must be free!

But to those whose parents are on very large salarys there is no reason why they cant contribute more. To say that otherwise they wont go to college is rediculous. You have to realise that the country has one of the most severe budget deficits in Europe currently, the size of the shortfall is no joke.

There are much more worthy causes than paying for very well off students to go to college, off the top of my head the cervical cancer jabs and the state of hospital hygeine come to mind.

As for the town being packed already on a Saturday, if last Saturday was anything to go, a few more bodies around on a Saturday afternoon is exactly what the place needs.

shanemul

Don't think anyone has mentioned this but it is one person and one person only who wants to bring back fees and its the Idiot of a Minister Bratt O'Keeffe. The entire Dept of Education along with every IT in the country is against the introduction they have said that the increase in Registration is enough. Students are being made scape goat for a Goverment that has squandered the countries money and are now trying to recoup some of it.

Jack burton

dlofnep wrote: »

And how do you introduce such a system? Means test people based on alcohol abuse?

well i'd only leave people who are actully going to work and put in an effort in college, i go drinking too but i still come in in the mornings

dlofnep

And how do you introduce such a system?

BlaasForRafa

dlofnep wrote: »

I've been working since I was 14, paying taxes since I was 18 - started college as a mature student.. I'm pretty sure I've paid my own taxes. And the taxes that we will pay later on in life will more than cover our costs as a single person. You can keep your taxes tbh. I'm sure you've never benefitted from the collective country's taxes before... Roads, public services, transport, etc... right?

If you actually took the time to look you'd seem my reply was to twkm05 and his bad mannered statements not you.

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

And how do you introduce such a system?

A roll call - like it bloody well should be. He has a point. There are far to many people who get free education that don't bother turning up for a lot of their classes because they were to hungover or whatever. Attedance sheets should be taken and those who cant be arsed turning up should be told to get lost.

I'm against the introduction of fees to students who are struggling but there are plenty of students who are well able to afford it and this is where it should hit. I'm unsure about means testing the family, unless the student lives at home. However, the government have failed to tax those at the moment properly and are hitting the poorer population and ignoring the richer population. I agree with Shane Kelly, president of USI, when he says he doesnt believe that it will be means tested. The government are doing a ****e job as it is in that type of area.

echosound

Fees on a sliding scale would be the way forward IMO. Base it on the same system used for determining if a student is eligible for a full grant/part maintenance grant/no grant at all.

Students who either themselves fall under a certain low income level (for mature students who are either independent or dependent on a spouse), or who's parents fall under a certain low income level (for most school leavers/under 21s who will be assessed under their parent's income) would have their fees waived, the middling income students pay half fees, and high income students pay full fees.

That way, people who genuinely could not afford to go to college if they had to pay fees would not be denied the opportunity to gain education and better themselves, thereby pulling themselves out of the low income band, into a higher tax bracket, and possibly ensuring that when it comes time for their own children to attend college, they will be earning enough that they will pay full fees.
The people who can afford to pay their own way should do so. Similar to a scholarship system I guess.

It would also have the added bonus of making a degree worth something, as only the people who genuinely want to study a particular area will go to college and work at it, and they will be the best in their field when the time comes to find employment, as they will have a genuine interest in the area they have studied, rather than half-heartedly working in some area they don't have any passion for.

It will discourage people from timewasting by doing random courses if they have to think twice about paying for them if their income level is above a certain threshold.

Of course, while I think the above way is a somewhat equitable way of approaching the issue of fees, which would mean that people who may be bursting with brains and passion for the field they wish to study will not be locked out of pursuing the career they want due to their socio-economic background, I am sure that the richer sections of society will be in uproar at having to pay while the poorer sections don't have to pay. However I'd liken it to the medical card - if you are poor, you get one, if you are not, you don't. Fees - if you are poor, they are waived, or reduced, if you are not, you pay them.

Ireland needs intelligent, enthusiastic young graduates to come up with new ideas, start up businesses, get involved in R&D, pull foreign investment towards locating in Ireland, and if the Govt introduces blanket fees for everyone, far fewer people will go to college, and we will not as a population have the level of education or qualifications needed to ensure economic success.

With the economic situation being what it is, the last thing we need is thousands of school leavers being unable to afford to go to college, thousands of newly redundant people being unable to return to college to retrain, and all unable to find employment either, ending up on the ever-increasing dole queues. Better to spend the time in college bettering their prospects than sitting on their hands all day at home on the dole.

dlofnep

I agree he wasn't well mannered, but my point is is the taxes spent on education will be paid back tenfold by students who earn high and pay taxes in the high tax bracket. I'm more than happy to play my part in society and be taxed in order to ensure education, healthscare and public services are of a high standard. Some people are under the impression that third-level education is optional, and in it being optional - the Irish people are under no oglibation to fund the fees.

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

A roll call - like it bloody well should be. He has a point. There are far to many people who get free education that don't bother turning up for a lot of their classes because they were to hungover or whatever. Attedance sheets should be taken and those who cant be arsed turning up should be told to get lost.

Attendance sheets are taken Sully.

Please note payment of your grant is subject to satisfactory attendance

Are some abusing the system? Of course. Colleges should be a little more strict on this policy. I 100% agree with it.

Sully wrote: »

I'm against the introduction of fees to students who are struggling but there are plenty of students who are well able to afford it and this is where it should hit. I'm unsure about means testing the family, unless the student lives at home. However, the government have failed to tax those at the moment properly and are hitting the poorer population and ignoring the richer population. I agree with Shane Kelly, president of USI, when he says he doesnt believe that it will be means tested. The government are doing a ****e job as it is in that type of area.

And how do you means-test who can afford it? I've already explained that sending 2 children to college could cost parents €140,000. That's an awful amount of money, and only millionaires could truly afford it. What about the funds allocated to private schools?

Our economy will benefit from education our people. Everyone must have a fair chance at an education. The introduction of fees, and the raising of registration fees will not give everyone a fair chance at an education.

ec18

well butty wrote: »

Third level education is being used by some students who just don't want to work. They start a course, realise they don't like it. Quit after a year or two and start another one (at tax payer's expense). Put a charge in place and weed out the ones that weaken the quality of degrees that are issued. Support the disadvantaged students by providing Government backed loans. This will ensure that the ones that do take up the option of spending 3-5 years in college will value it and work hard at succeeding.

Ah if they start a course, drop out and then start another one you have to pay fees for the number of years they completed of the original course

stick-dan wrote: »

So if you're being assessed and you only earn about ~40,000 this won't affect you is this correct?

that was the last suggestion then

merlante wrote: »

On the other hand, I'm not against families who are bringing in 100,000+ euro a year paying fees that rise with income (up to a point). These families can afford to pay and -- my socialist side coming out here -- there's no point in giving them free education when all they're doing is using the money saved to put their kids through grind schools so they can beat the poor/average to the best college places.

On the other other hand, what if you are 18+ years of age, with rich parents that won't lift a finger to help you financially? Can you dis-include your parents for means testing if they are not contributing? After all, the state can't force your parents to pay, even if they can force you to pay.

Hard to do that, everyone should be assessed the same so in the case of the the person who receives no help from his wealthy parents will have to cough up the fees. No Fees have brought about a change in the way people think about college. It's presumed you are more or less going to college. Which is a very important change in society, the elitism that only the rich go to college has been eliminated. Bringing back fee's is a step backward

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

We're the ones paying the TAXES that get you through college. Your bad manners are indicating that our money is not being well spent.

Your blatant stereotyping about students and how they live and spend their money is a poor reflection all of the taxpayers then. Your taxes that are paying for our education now, well our taxes in the future will be paying for your pension, and for the generation after us. It's really more of a cyclical process and that argument really goes out the window.

If you want to complain about taxes then ask them to audit and streamline the public service, ministers expenses and salaries.

Cabaal

ec18 wrote: »

Your blatant stereotyping about students and how they live and spend their money is a poor reflection all of the taxpayers then. Your taxes that are paying for our education now, well our taxes in the future will be paying for your pension, and for the generation after us. It's really more of a cyclical process and that argument really goes out the window.

If you want to complain about taxes then ask them to audit and streamline the public service, ministers expenses and salaries.

ec18, you'll find people base there view on students based on them actually being a student and knowing exactly what its like...it hasn';t changed and there continues to be a high number of students that just use college as an excuse to get **** faced as much as they can afford yet they'll live on beans and toast.

You'll find anyone's pension is actually paid from their pension fund and their taxes over the years that they;ve paid,.

scout353

Fees should be paid if someone decides they don't like their course and want to change as they would have denied someone else a place originally! At present if you fail a year you have to pay full fees to repeat which is also a good idea!

The steady increase in registration charges is the reintroduction of fees by stealth! Why does it cost someone €900 to accept a place or confirm their continued study at a college - and this is likely to be €1500 next year!

robtri

scout353 wrote: »

The steady increase in registration charges is the reintroduction of fees by stealth! Why does it cost someone €900 to accept a place or confirm their continued study at a college - and this is likely to be €1500 next year!

why... cause the government has no money, everybody in the country is having to cough up more money, so fees are increasing to cover costs...
that covers your question I think....

merlante

Some points:

- Firstly the government have been considering this for years, since around 2005 when things were good.

- Attendance should have nothing to do with entitlement for 3rd level education. A lot of people are perfectly capable of passing with imperfect attendance, or even far from perfect attendance. Exams test whether people are entitled to be enrolled or not. If people don't turn up it's actually better for teacher-student ratios and wear and tear on equipment.

- Universities/colleges were being squeezed all along by the government who had to increase capitation fees to cover basic costs, just as councils had to hammer citizens with all sorts of taxes and charges because they were being systemically starved by central government.

- The one benefit to paying fees is that it would return the student to the role of 'customer', with requirements and a voice, as opposed to being a drain on its government granted resources, as students are currently viewed as.

ec18

Cabaal wrote: »

ec18, you'll find people base there view on students based on them actually being a student and knowing exactly what its like...it hasn';t changed and there continues to be a high number of students that just use college as an excuse to get **** faced as much as they can afford yet they'll live on beans and toast.

if they are basing it on their own experiences than it's a tad hypocritical wouldn't you say?

Cabaal wrote:

You'll find anyone's pension is actually paid from their pension fund and their taxes over the years that they;ve paid,.

Not everyone has a pension fund though and the taxes you are paying now are funding the previous generations state pensions and the next generations education......surely that's not a bad thing to give out about?