'Gardai Looking for Motive'

Phototoxin

On Are-Tee-Eee, when they were covering the young fellah shot in tallagh the presenter said that gardai are looking for a motive.

Why though? Surely physical evidence and witnesses would be more imporant.

Is it just RTE trying to sound dramatic or what?

livvy

motive is of major importance - to know why he was shot automatically steers the investigators in the direction of who could have done it. I think its the first question to be answered.

Phototoxin

But sure it could be loads of reasons. Maybe some whacko who gets off on shooting people. I wouldn't have thought it was as important as actually getting the perpetrator.

Oryx

Phototoxin wrote: »

But sure it could be loads of reasons. Maybe some whacko who gets off on shooting people. I wouldn't have thought it was as important as actually getting the perpetrator.

Theyre not looking for loads of reasons, theyre looking for the right reason. If he was dealing, that gives them suspect(s) 'A'. If he shafted his mates girlfriend, suspect 'B'. If he was a wife beater and his bro in law owns a gun shop, suspect 'C'.

Getting motive right would solve the puzzle a whole lot quicker than checking for footprints in Tallaght. Murder is rarely a random act. Most people are killed by someone they know.

livvy

Phototoxin wrote: »

But sure it could be loads of reasons. Maybe some whacko who gets off on shooting people. I wouldn't have thought it was as important as actually getting the perpetrator.

Knowing why he was murdered leads you to who could have done it. Greed, passion, revenge all open up parts of a persons life to question. If crime appeared to have been passion related, from looking at wounds inflicted, it would automatically steer investigators into his past relationships. Knowing why leads to knowing who .......... in my humble opinion .....

seamus

It usually means that the guy hadn't otherwise come to Garda attention in any serious way. So they're making enquires in the hope that someone can say, "Ah yeah, I saw him arguing with some guy outside a nightclub on Saturday".

Or what Oryx said.

Phototoxin

Getting motive right would solve the puzzle a whole lot quicker than checking for footprints in Tallaght. Murder is rarely a random act. Most people are killed by someone they know.

I'm aware of that, but it seems like from the media that its their priority whereas I wouldn't've thought it would have been that is all.

johnnyskeleton

livvy wrote: »

motive is of major importance - to know why he was shot automatically steers the investigators in the direction of who could have done it. I think its the first question to be answered.

Phototoxin wrote: »

it seems like from the media that its their priority whereas I wouldn't've thought it would have been that is all.

They are not prioritising motive over real evidence and witness statements, as livvy says it's the first question to be answered. Once they hypothesise a motive, then they can start collecting evidence.

Put another way, the Gards haven't a breeze who did it, and if they can find out why they will at least have something to tell the media.

Oryx

And all the fingerprint and bloodspatter evidence in the world is useless unless they have a suspect to check it against. Hence, motive.

Sleipnir

If you know how someone was killed, when they were killed etc, it's all fairly useless until you have an idea of WHY he was killed.

If you can find out why he was killed, you'll be pretty close to the person who did it.

Phototoxin

but surely the motive doesn't prove it ? Ok its good for getting suspects but in it self is not evidence. Then again getting a suspect to check it against is a step forward but do gardai *always* look for motive ?

I mean in this one its gang related so there will be some gangland motive, but say a serial killer is just randomly killing people he mightn't have much motive other than he wants to kill people.

me_right_one

Love the way you said "Are-Tee-Eee". Thats exactly the way they pronounce it on tele, it really p!sses me off. AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH- Tee-Eee. Its fcukin Or-Tee-Eee

Look at it this way. What use is all d evidence in the world without a reason? If you had a perfect set of fingerprints, but no-one to match them with, they're completely useless. What are ya gonna do, start fingerprinting everybody in the country? U need a motive to narrow it down, then use ur evidence to pin ur suspect.

And yea, the Gardai do always look for a motive

Sleipnir

Phototoxin wrote: »

but surely the motive doesn't prove it ? Ok its good for getting suspects but in it self is not evidence. Then again getting a suspect to check it against is a step forward but do gardai *always* look for motive ?

No, motive doesn't prove it so you use both.

"Right, we have the weapon, no prints. We have footprints, we have the bullet and the shell." etc etc

Not much good unless you know who would have a reason to do it. So, who does he owe money/drugs or whatever too? Has he ever been attacked before? If so, by who and why?
You find the people who had something against him, Check their alibi's etc, then use the evidence to tie them to the crime or use it to eliminate them from the case.

Phototoxin wrote: »

but say a serial killer is just randomly killing people he mightn't have much motive other than he wants to kill people.

That's why they're so difficult to catch.

johnnyskeleton

Phototoxin wrote: »

but surely the motive doesn't prove it ? Ok its good for getting suspects but in it self is not evidence. Then again getting a suspect to check it against is a step forward but do gardai *always* look for motive ?

Proof is a matter for the court. In a court motive is not really relevant or admissible (but it always seems to sneak in).

However, when faced with a stone cold whodunnit, the gardai need to form a working hypothesis upon which to base their investigation.

You're right in what you say, but I think you may have drawn an incorrect conclusion. They are not looking for a motive to prove the crime, they are looking for it to investigate the crime. No more.

So taking a few examples - man found dead, wife & contents of bank account missing, gardai work on the theory that the motive was domestic violence & look for the wife - known drug dealer found with bullet holes in his chest, gardai work on the theory that it was drug/crime related & look for rivals - gardai find traces of semen on dead woman, work on basis that she was raped & murdered and try to find out who she was out with recently. Once they have found their suspect the focus shifts to gathering evidence and once they have gathered evidence against him/her, they send it to the DPP who will see if, based on the evidence & not the working motive, a prosecution should be brought.

Phototoxin wrote: »

I mean in this one its gang related so there will be some gangland motive, but say a serial killer is just randomly killing people he mightn't have much motive other than he wants to kill people.

The motive will at best be a working hypothesis. It will often work out, it will often prove wrong, and it will occasionally be misleading, but it is a start and something to work on.

Phototoxin

Maybe its more of a media studies thing, but it seems the news likes to concentrate on the 'shallow why' of crimes ?

That's why they're so difficult to catch.

I know I expected to be got AAAGEES ago !! :pac:

me_right_one

I dont understand what you mean about the media. Do you think they over-emphasise the motive or something? I think its just as important for people to know the motive as it is to know the perpetrator. It serves as a warning, letting you know who or what to steer clear of

994

me_right_one wrote: »

Love the way you said "Are-Tee-Eee". Thats exactly the way they pronounce it on tele, it really p!sses me off. AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH- Tee-Eee. Its fcukin Or-Tee-Eee

Look at it this way. What use is all d evidence in the world without a reason? If you had a perfect set of fingerprints, but no-one to match them with, they're completely useless. What are ya gonna do, start fingerprinting everybody in the country? U need a motive to narrow it down, then use ur evidence to pin ur suspect.

And yea, the Gardai do always look for a motive

Actually it's an Irish acronym so Arr Tay Ey Fada.

me_right_one

994 wrote: »

Actually it's an Irish acronym so Arr Tay Ey Fada.

I know its an Irish acronym!?!?! That has nothing to do with the way its pronounced though!