Extremely Poor Customer Service from Sky Digital

ve

Hi I am just wondering can someone here give me some advise. Basically my parents have been loyal Sky Digital customers for nearly 3 years and for that entire time have subscribed to their most comprehensive package (Sky "World" I believe it is/was called). Anyway they do watch a bit of TV to justify spending such large amounts per month for the service. About 2 weeks ago their service just stopped. On screen it says that the service is down and it should return shortly. After 2 days of absolutely no channels/service whatsoever they called tech support and explained what was wrong. After the phone support people had them perform a few diagnostic checks it was decided that an Engineer would need to be sent out.

Here's where the real problem start...

They (tech support) insisted that because my parents were signed up to the service for more than 12 months it was the customers responsibility to foot the bill for the Engineer to come out. My parents fought this and explained that they were paying (direct debit) for a service and as far as they were concerned they were not getting that service due to no fault of their own. Also that it was Sky's problem to restore that service while they were paying customers. Sky did not budge on this matter until my mother threatened to leave the service!

When they acknowledge my Mother's threat to discontinue the service they changed their mind and offered to pay for half of the Engineers bill with my Parents to be charged for the other half. Again my mother insisted that this is not her problem and also asked how they could just all of a sudden reduce this so called repair expense by 50% just because she made a threat to leave. After much debate, she still threatened to leave unless the matter was resolved without any expense to her. They said they would only do that if she upgraded to Sky+ and signed a further 12 month contract. In the end they decided they now want out of the service as they are now nearly 10 days without any TV service and had to resort back to analogue channels. My parents told them that they were now leaving the service and that they were cancelling the direct debit with the bank. Sky told them on the phone that they have to give 30 days notice in writing to terminate the service and that if my parents cancelled the direct debit before that time they would receive letters from Sky's debt collectors and if not paid in full would end up in court.

What do you think my parents should do in this case?. My mother looked through her terms with Sky and she cannot see where it says that she has to give them 30 days notice to terminate the contract. All this considering she is currently not receiving the service she is currently paying for. She said she would have had no problem staying with her current subscription if Sky had just agreed to send out an Engineer and have the problem fixed within a reasonable amount of time. So basically she would forgive them for current downtime which I think is very reasonable on her behalf.

Jaysoose

Your parents should do the following,

1. Send a letter by registered post to sky cancelling the service (take copies)

2. Cancel Direct debit.

3. Ring sky and tell them that the box is now sitting outside the front door for them to pick it up

4. Ignore any letters claiming they owe money.

If they have been with sky more than 12 months then they are doing nothing wrong and if they send the cancellation letter there is nothing sky can say or do as no contract is being broken and at worst they will have to pay the last months bill even though the service has been shocking and this would cover the 30 day nonsense.

Paulw

Give them 30 days notice, in writing, and also ask for a refund for the lack of service (quoting the date/time when it was reported to be not working).

Also, ask for a copy of their Customer Service Centre records, which will show date/time of contact, as well as the customer service notes enter in to their system. You're entitled to this information under the Data Protection Act.

fonda

My mam is having a similar problem at the moment! She had the same issue with the channels being gone but they were gone for about a month! She eventually paid €100 engineers fee. (she's too soft, I would never have paid it!)

Channels worked fine for a while and then same problem again, she rang to report it and was told that she would have to pay for an other engineer to come out to look at it!

She then told them she wanted to cancel, when she got through to cancelation department they told her that she had already paid for the next month and to call back at some date in 3 weeks time!

After 3 weeks she called back to say that the channels were working but that they were still flicking in and out at times and that she would stay with sky but wanted to cancel movies, sports and multi room supscription as she didnt want them after their poor service! she was transferred to cancelation again and after a while line went dead!

So, I decided i'd call them because my ma is too soft and was being all nice on the phone (she was even thanking them at the end of the call - as if they'd actually helped her)They then wouldnt talk to me about the account because it wasn't my name on the bill.

Next time she rang back she was told that the next bill was due and that she couldn't cancel till after that was settled! w*nkers


Anyway still ongoing at the moment, my ma has sort of giving up on it and paying €80+ a month for channels that flick off while you are in the middle of watching something! I'm keeping at her all the time to ring them or to cancel the direct debit and just throw the sky boxes in the bin!

tallaghtoutlaws

Sky have always charged an Engineers fee. Usually when there is a problem with service at a residential address it is a equipment problem and after 1 year the equipment is out of warranty meaning you have to pay to get it fixed. When you pay the monthly fee you are paying for Sky's service not for a lifetime gaurantee that if something goes wrong they will fix it for free. If the problem was non equipment related and on their end yes you expect them to fix it for free because after all there is nothing an engineer can do.

ve

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Sky have always charged an Engineers fee. Usually when there is a problem with service at a residential address it is a equipment problem and after 1 year the equipment is out of warranty meaning you have to pay to get it fixed. When you pay the monthly fee you are paying for Sky's service not for a lifetime gaurantee that if something goes wrong they will fix it for free. If the problem was non equipment related and on their end yes you expect them to fix it for free because after all there is nothing an engineer can do.

I understand where you are coming from, but to be honest my parents (the customer) shouldn't really care how a service provider provides a service, but rather if the service provider is keeping up their end of the bargain "to deliver a service" as long as the customer keeps up their end of the bargain "to pay" for the service. My parents didn't decide to use a satellite dish or a "box" that enables this service, or have a choice in what equipment be used, etc. It was Sky that decided on the technology to be used in order to "deliver" this service to the customer along with device choices, configuration, etc. Again it is an inconvenience in my opinion that my parents actually have to pay electricity to power a device that facilitates the service, but we'll let that go . So therefore if the service provider is not "delivering" the service using the means that they chose to deliver it then surely it is fair to say that they are not keeping up their end of the bargain. In my parents case they are do that along with threatening to take my parents to court if my parents stop keeping up their end of the bargain, even though my parents only want out because Sky Digital have stopped providing the service they are paying for.

tallaghtoutlaws

ve wrote: »

I understand where you are coming from, but to be honest my parents (the customer) shouldn't really care how a service provider provides a service, but rather if the service provider is keeping up their end of the bargain "to deliver a service" as long as the customer keeps up their end of the bargain "to pay" for the service. My parents didn't decide to use a satellite dish or a "box" that enables this service, or have a choice in what equipment be used, etc. It was Sky that decided on the technology to be used in order to "deliver" this service to the customer along with device choices, configuration, etc. Again it is an inconvenience in my opinion that my parents actually have to pay electricity to power a device that facilitates the service, but we'll let that go . So therefore if the service provider is not "delivering" the service using the means that they chose to deliver it then surely it is fair to say that they are not keeping up their end of the bargain. In my parents case they are do that along with threatening to take my parents to court if my parents stop keeping up their end of the bargain, even though my parents only want out because Sky Digital have stopped providing the service they are paying for.

The thing is everyone does. When you sign their contract you agree to their terms and conditions:

8. Liability
We will not be liable under this Contract for:
(a) any fault in a Set Top Box or other receiving equipment you use;
(b) any fault in your Viewing Card caused by you tampering with it, your negligence or failure to follow our instructions;
(c) use of a Viewing Card with any decoding apparatus we do not authorise;
(d) the ending by you or us of this Contract according to Condition 11;
(e) our failure to provide the Service caused by events outside our reasonable control;
(f) any loss or damage caused by us or our employees or agents in circumstances where:
(i) there is no breach of a legal duty of care owed to you by us or by any of our employees or agents;
(ii) such loss or damage is not a reasonably foreseeable result of any such breach;
(iii) any increase in loss or damage results from a breach by you of any term of this Contract.
As agent for BSkyB, SSSL has no liability to you.

tallaghtoutlaws

ve wrote: »

Sky Digital have stopped providing the service they are paying for.

How have they? If their is a fault with the equipment you need to get it fixed simple as. If they refused to help you in any way ok yes I would agree. But they clearly told you they could send an engineer to fix this but at a cost which is standard.

tallaghtoutlaws

Now don't get me wrong I don't work for Sky but have had countless battles with them over equipment but they are within their right. Like you they offered the engineer at half price. We took it and he came back 3 times and they tried charging us for further visits but we refused to pay and they fixed it. But without getting that first initial engineer visit you have no leg to stand on.

JDxtra

It seems odd, but Sky have been fair. You own the equipment from day one so unless you get a fault within the first year you are on your own. Would you call Sky if the television itself stopped working? By the way I have never seen nor heard of that error message on a Sky box before so the problem seems odd. Consider posting the full tech details and error messages in the Sat forum to see if anybody can help. Plus its free!

ve

I don't think customers of Sky really differenciate between the actual signal arriving in to their house, the equipment or the channels. As far as the customer is concerned it is all "Sky" and is part an parcel of the service you are paying for. I notice that Sky also say that you can't use anything other than the equipment that they provide. I don't doubt anything you have said so far is incorrect, but if what you are saying is the fact of the matter then potentially customers of Sky that are loyal beyond the duration of equipment warranty are really running the risk of absolutely no value for money. Basically my parents could be paying the same from month 13 onwards as they were during months 1 - 12, and also not recieve the service and have to repeatedly also pay for faulty equipment if needs arise. There doesn't seem to be any form of compensation for downtime either. In effect they would/could be paying constantly for a service that is "not fit for the purpose intended" which is something that they did not sign up for and considering all that Sky are still legally within their rights to take a customer to court if they refuse to accept that.

Now of course you are going to say "Yes" that's correct!, but where are they in their rights to take a customer to court for not paying for a service by which they are ultimately not receiving. Again I suppose you are going to say well they are indeed providing the service, but there is most likely a fault with the equipment that they provided which acts as a bridge between the customer and your definion of "the service".

tbaymusicman

my brother tried to ring them the other day to upgrade was on the phone twenty minutes without getting to speak to anyone haha needless to say sky can **** them selves

tallaghtoutlaws

ve wrote: »

I don't think customers of Sky really differenciate between the actual signal arriving in to their house, the equipment or the channels. As far as the customer is concerned it is all "Sky" and is part an parcel of the service you are paying for. I notice that Sky also say that you can't use anything other than the equipment that they provide. I don't doubt anything you have said so far is incorrect, but if what you are saying is the fact of the matter then potentially customers of Sky that are loyal beyond the duration of equipment warranty are really running the risk of absolutely no value for money. Basically my parents could be paying the same from month 13 onwards as they were during months 1 - 12, and also not recieve the service and have to repeatedly also pay for faulty equipment if needs arise. There doesn't seem to be any form of compensation for downtime either. In effect they would/could be paying constantly for a service that is "not fit for the purpose intended" which is something that they did not sign up for and considering all that Sky are still legally within their rights to take a customer to court if they refuse to accept that.

Now of course you are going to say "Yes" that's correct!, but where are they in their rights to take a customer to court for not paying for a service by which they are ultimately not receiving. Again I suppose you are going to say well they are indeed providing the service, but there is most likely a fault with the equipment that they provided which acts as a bridge between the customer and your definion of "the service".

But you are missing the point. You are refusing to sort the problem by paying the engineer to fix it. Why is that Sky's fault. Your parents signed up to Sky's term and conditions. If the equipment isnt working Sky have given you a way to fix it your parents are refusing to do it. Why should Sky lose money on something you can fix. And again they are providing the service but your equipment seems faulty and isnt recivieving their service.

Example say you buy a phone from vodafone/o2 whoever and your phone breaks and you refuse to get it fixed or get a new handset does that mean they shouldnt be charging you for the service anymore?

Savman

I had this same issue with Sky, Incidentally, after threatening to leave, they sent an Engineer miraculously for free.

The way I see it, my box sat there for 2yrs, never left the spot after they installed it so balls was I gonna pay them to get me up and running again. I've since left the miserable gits, but not before a barrage of threatening letters for their final €60 or whatever.:rolleyes:

Oryx

Engineer callouts are guaranteed for 3 months. So if an engineer asks for an additional fee within that time he is scamming you. If sky ask for it they are making a mistake.

I arranged an engineer callout a while ago, paid sky directly by cc, the engineer came, pressed some buttons on the controls (did nothing much really) got lucky, voila, the system worked. He says, any problems, give me a shout. The box went off again within hours, and when we phoned him, ah, the story changed... thatll be another 50 quid mate...:rolleyes:

So I phoned Sky, which is when I was told about the 3 month guarantee. Apparently that engineer no longer works for sky.:) The next guy called, but couldnt check the dish, as apparently for health and safety reasons, it was too high (on a bungalow). He fit another one on the wall... no extra charge, so it all ended well.

And I actually spoke to the craziest call centre person ever that day. Totally loop the loop. Told me what I looked like down to dress size. Memorable. I hope they recorded it, somewhere.

ve

JDxtra wrote: »

Would you call Sky if the television itself stopped working?

Absolutely not, as Sky did not provide us with the TV (a purchased product from a company other than Sky, not a purchased service from Sky). Simple as that. If it was, we would.

JDxtra wrote: »

By the way I have never seen nor heard of that error message on a Sky box before so the problem seems odd. Consider posting the full tech details and error messages in the Sat forum to see if anybody can help. Plus its free!

Cheers for the offer. I have not posted the exact error details, status codes, any other precise information, etc, because that would be an act which would imply that I accept that I (and by request you) are liable in time and effort to solve the problem. I don't accept that is the case, but again I appreciate your offer. If it comes to it, and it may, I will to solely help my parents out of a losing more value for money.

In the mean time if anyone has any further advise as to what we should do I would appreciate it.

Oryx

ve wrote: »

In the mean time if anyone has any further advise as to what we should do I would appreciate it.

I totally get your pov, but it would seem from the t&cs posted above, they have you over a barrell. If you can cancel, it might be an option to take up the service under another name for the same address. That way they have to stump up with new equipment, but it would mean a new contract. However, if they have one of those introduce a friend to sky deals where they pay you some amount, you could rope in another user to get that? I realise its not fighting the actual battle you have, but really, Sky Dont Care.

ve

Oryx wrote: »

Sky Dont Care.

That pretty much sums it up, it would seem.

Under the Terms and Conditions of "the service" they do have my parents (loyal & paying customers) backed in a corner. Somehow I can't see them advertising that fact to win new business.

Rule #1 of Business - "Keep the customer happy!". That is not been achieved here. I have convinced many people in the past to take up many different types of services, and people trust my judgement on these things. In similar fashion with my new found knowledge thanks to replies here, I will just start warning people of some very significant issues in the small print which really makes the whole Sky offering far less attractive, because many people I know who are with Sky, do not know that fact. I think its time they found out.

ejmaztec

Customers are just numbers to Sky and loyalty is a word they've never heard of.
If you leave them, you're just part of the "churn".

tallaghtoutlaws

OP you see im sorry but your attitude Sky should help you for free is annoying me. Your parents signed the contract and the terms and conditions. They should have read what they were signing up for. Simple fact why should SKy care about you or any of us. They are a business. Yes they want to keep customers but at what cost? Were its no longer profitable for them? whether you have the equipment 1 year or 13 years, it makes no odds equipment fails simple fact. And unfortunately the day and age we live in nothing in life comes free. If Sky went around fixing every out of warranty Dish and box for free they would no longer exist because the costs to these engineers that they would be paying would be astronomical. They gave your parents an option and at this stage stubborness has kicked in and now ITs Sky's fault your parents wont pay for an engineer. Look Im sorry you feel hard done by I gaurantee you every other company works of the same premis the minute that equipment goes out of warranty good look getting it fixed for free.

JDxtra

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

OP you see im sorry but your attitude Sky should help you for free is annoying me. Your parents signed the contract and the terms and conditions. They should have read what they were signing up for. Simple fact why should SKy care about you or any of us. They are a business. Yes they want to keep customers but at what cost? Were its no longer profitable for them? whether you have the equipment 1 year or 13 years, it makes no odds equipment fails simple fact. And unfortunately the day and age we live in nothing in life comes free. If Sky went around fixing every out of warranty Dish and box for free they would no longer exist because the costs to these engineers that they would be paying would be astronomical. They gave your parents an option and at this stage stubborness has kicked in and now ITs Sky's fault your parents wont pay for an engineer. Look Im sorry you feel hard done by I gaurantee you every other company works of the same premis the minute that equipment goes out of warranty good look getting it fixed for free.

Well said!

JDxtra

Sky simply can't help in this situation. To do so would mean they would be liable to fix every dish that gets moved by a gust a wind or obscured by an overgrown tree.

Sky as a “service” would generally never “go down” or be unavailable to the masses – problems only occur at the individual installs. There are too many variables for them to take responsibility for anything beyond the 1 year equipment warranty.

If that doesn’t suit, you are free to cancel (30 days notice required when out of contract). One advantage of cancelling is that your other parent can subscribe again – and get a great deal too. €50 for the install and Sky+ for €25. It will be all new equipment and guaranteed for one year.

eth0_

Look at it this way - you sign up to a broadband service and you get a free wireless router/modem. After a year it breaks. Should Eircom/whoever fix that for free? Of course not. That item has a 1 year warranty and after that it's your responsibility if it breaks down.

Sky *are* providing a service to your parents - their satellites haven't suddenly stopped beaming down a signal to Ireland, and that is the service that you are paying for, not the box which you paid for outright, which comes with a 1 year warranty.

norbert64

long story short, once the 12 month contract is up, your monthly sub just becomes payment for a ''Signal''.

we were in the same boat a few years ago unfortunately. The folks rang sky and like you, were rather miffed to hear that since we're outta contract, any problems with the equipment is our cross to bare.

in the end, we paid our local tv/satelite shop a fair few bob, to install a new tuner in the digibox.

TBH, maybe try another cancel bluff and see if they'll do anything better. Otherwise, you'll either have to just give up sky altogether or suffer the half price engineer visit.

Actually, OP, did you try googling the problem you have to see if there is a solution?

wmpdd3

If your cancelling and singing up again, change your address slightly like adding house or a or a number to your address, it worked for me 3 times!

It worked so well that after 6months in the new contract, they sent a letter to the old account saying sorry we fell out we'll reconnect you for free and give you 6mts free TV!!

On the down side they sent a debt collectors letter to me for the €5 charge for a letter I requested to say my old account was cleared and cancelled.

jor el

Did they ask how much it was for the engineer call out? It's normally €50 from Sky, I think, which isn't too bad. The problem is likely something simple, like the LMB is dead, which could be replaced quickly and cheaply, or the dish could have been knocked off track by the strong winds recently. Both of these are outside what Sky provide, and hence the cost would be borne by the customer.

On the 30 days notice, you pay in advance for the service, so they may have already paid up their notice period anyway.

After 12 months, the equipment is yours, and your responsibility. Under European Consumer Law however, you may have longer than 12 months warranty. The law states that anything you buy should last for a reasonable period, and a satellite receiver should reasonable last longer than 12 months. You'd need to be able to prove that it's actually an issue with the equipment, and not something that resulted from misuse or even weather damage. It would have to be a warrantable repair. This would still require an engineer call out, to determine the problem, which you still may have to pay for.

bcirl03

ejmaztec wrote: »

Customers are just numbers to Sky and loyalty is a word they've never heard of.
If you leave them, you're just part of the "churn".

Sky hate "churn" - thats why when you cancel they do their best to keep ya.

foggy_lad

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

But you are missing the point. You are refusing to sort the problem by paying the engineer to fix it. Why is that Sky's fault. Your parents signed up to Sky's term and conditions. If the equipment isnt working Sky have given you a way to fix it your parents are refusing to do it. Why should Sky lose money on something you can fix. And again they are providing the service but your equipment seems faulty and isnt recivieving their service.

Example say you buy a phone from vodafone/o2 whoever and your phone breaks and you refuse to get it fixed or get a new handset does that mean they shouldnt be charging you for the service anymore?

but vodafone/o2 dont force you to buy any particular handset as sky do! also there are many instances of people having to get their sky and sky+ boxes repaired just out of warrenty so it seems they only last the year but if people were allowed chose their own equipment they could chose something more reliable than the units sky offer.

also your parents can buy a cheap sattellite reciever in aldi/lidl and they can connect it to "their" sky dish and get all the free-view channels!

tallaghtoutlaws

foggy_lad wrote: »

but vodafone/o2 dont force you to buy any particular handset as sky do! also there are many instances of people having to get their sky and sky+ boxes repaired just out of warrenty so it seems they only last the year but if people were allowed chose their own equipment they could chose something more reliable than the units sky offer.

What difference does that make the point was if the EQUIPMENT fails you are still obliged to pay for the service the end. Electrical equipment of any sort carry varied working lives. Some could work for donkeys year and some fail within a day. But at the end of it all you are given a warrenty of 12 months on most. Once you go outside 12 months its tough sh!t you are now on your own either pay to get it fixed or don't its your call. Your point about the Sky boxes though we have had sky digital for the last 12 years in the family home and we only ever had to get the box fixed once. Pretty good odds if you ask me. And that was the time the engineer came a multitude of times. So pay it and get it fixed and continue using the service or not the OP's parents call.

Walkman

I cancelled my Sky yesterday, did not give any notice. I had no Sky since Friday, called them and they told me the same I would have to foot the bill and it would take 14 days to get someone out to me. I had 2 months left in the contract but the guy on the phone closed my account.