€190 for 20 minutes??

Holiers

I was at the dentist this morning for less than 20 minutes. I got a small filling. I was charged €190 could that be right?

cabrwab

I was in the dentist today, i had a tooth out 2 weeks ago cost 180euros. Today was the check up/remove stiches and do a couple of fillings i was told it was covered then called back to pay 130euros, when i queried it they checked into my PRSI apparently over 25's need to be in constant employment for 5+years and i was charged the 190euros.

I was gob smacked. now i remember why i hate dentists! She did ask me if i wanted the cheaper fillings i said i don't care wonder how much the cheaper fillings would have being!

Moral of the story seems correct. (I assume your in dublin aswell!)

btkm8unsl0w5r4

cabrwab wrote: »

cheaper fillings i said i don't care wonder how much the cheaper fillings would have being!

So you didnt care at the time, but now you are giving out on a public forum. I understand that dentistry can be expensive but you should always agree a price before treatment is started. White fillings are more expensive than amalgam ones.

cabrwab

More what iam giving out about is the fact my PRSI didn't cover any of it. And that 190 seemed correct for the OP.
If i was really given out id have being alot more p*ssed off.

Sorry re-reading my posts it does seem like im complaining alot. But at the time it was more about the PRSI.

I still don't care about the cost of the white/silver whatever.

Holiers

Agreed. Patients should agree a price with the dentist before the work is undertaken, however I don't think that all the responsibility lies with the patient.

Some suggestions:
Dentists should display their prices openly. Like the price of a pint in pubs.
Then they should say "I can do this piece of work it should cost X. Do you want me to go ahead with that?" That should be Irish Dental association guidelines.
Recommended retail prices should be set, perhaps by the Irish Dental association. That way I could compare the price my dentist has charged me any maybe go elsewhere next time.

davo10

Holiers, RRP cannot be applied in dentistry, it would be considered price fixing and fall foul of the competition authority. The HSE is prevented from even negotiating prices for treatments under medical card scheme with the dental association by the Competition Authority.

The reason prices cannot be displayed are:

1. dentistry is a service industry and every patient/treatment can if different. In theory every pint of stout is supposed to be the same/poured the same/served the same, but a filling can be white/silver/glassionomer/big/small/front tooth/back tooth/cover 1-6 surfaces/require pins/take 5-50mins/ need 1-4 injections etc so it is difficult to place a price list that will cover all treatments. Most dentists have a minimum charge, say €60 ( usually dictated by running costs of surgery, eg my running costs are approx € 32 per appointment so profit on a filling is ~ € 16 net) and increase price based on type of filling, difficulty and time. (it usually takes at least 4 times longer to place a white filling because there are a number of extra steps and the filling must be placed/cured in thin incremental layers).

2. If you place a price list, treatments would be more expensive, this fact was acknowledged by Mary Harney when she asked for a study to be done on dental costs. If every aspect of a filling was itemised it would read like this:
a) local anaesthetic (per cartridge) €5
b) excavation of caries (per surface) €5
c) cavity liner €10
d) placement and use of matrix band €5
e) type of filling material plus time taken € 20 amalgam, € 50 composite plus € 10 each additional surface (each additional surface involves more materials, curing time,polishing with white fillings)
f) pins (per pin) €10.

now the cost of each item on this may seem quite small but if you need a filling on a back tooth which extends from back to front, is missing a cusp which requires a pin for support and needs 2 injections to make numb enough the cost would be approximately € 145, that's about €40 more than i would normally charge and the patient would have no excuse not to pay as every item would be there on the price list (assuming of course that the patient had read the price list in the waiting room and consented to treatment).

How do you price list an extraction?.(injections/tooth/roots/difficulty/x-rays/time/surgical procedure necessary/haemostatic agents/sutures/post op observation time/dry socket etc). Sometimes i get the feeling that people think they are not getting value for money unless it takes 30 mins of cutting and pulling to get a tooth out when in fact it may take more skill and treatment planning to extract a tooth in 5 mins. Again most clinics have a minimum price and increase it based on difficulty and time.

Lastly from a patients point of view, if a price list was put up based on the average cost of a filling in each clinic, would it be fair for a patient who had a small occlusal filling which took 10 mins, to be asked to pay the same as someone who had a large filling which took 45mins. The people who have the cheaper less time consuming treatments would be subsidising the people who have extensive more time consuming ones.

Holiers

Thanks for all that detail Davo10. I sense I hit a nerve (painful pun I know).

Taking on board all that you have said. How would you suggest that patients shop around?

davo10

"shop around" implies that price is the most important factor in your decision, the best way to find a good dentist is to ask family and friends for recommendations. forums such as this are very useful for general information but the dentist/doctor/plumber etc recommended by one person may not be recommended by another (horses for courses).

No nerve touched, I think everyone is more aware these days that there is a cost difference between doing business here and abroad/up north. It used to annoy me greatly when people assumed that because we charge more here, that we must be making huge profits compared to dentists in other countries and that we are "ripping" people off.

Incidently, if a dentist in Dublin charged the same for a filling as a dentist in say Tuam or Newry he would probably make a loss rather than a profit as operating costs would be considerably higher considering property/rental prices, rates, wages etc.

Holiers

Price is percisely what I want to compare on. I have a good dentist at the moment, but given the times we are on and the prices I have just paid next time (especially if I need more considerable work done) I will need to consider should I
a. go to another dentist that was recommended but I don't know but is cheaper
b. go up the north to get it done
c. not get it done at all and suffer the consequences.

My problem now is how do I find a cheaper dentist..........

Bards

My current dentist display a price list in the waiting room with one caveat.

Approximate pricing

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Holiers wrote: »

Price is percisely what I want to compare on. I have a good dentist at the moment, but given the times we are on and the prices I have just paid next time (especially if I need more considerable work done) I will need to consider should I
a. go to another dentist that was recommended but I don't know but is cheaper
b. go up the north to get it done
c. not get it done at all and suffer the consequences.

My problem now is how do I find a cheaper dentist..........

If you have a good dentist you should stick with them, people who change dentist tend to get more fillings cause a new dentist does not trust anything done by somebody else. Find another way to save money than by cutting the cost of your dental care. In the long run you will only end up costing yourself more. Also remember that every dental practice is a small business with staff who depend on its profitability, suppliers who also have staff and labs with more staff. Superquinn had to lay off people because of all the people going up north (not that you can compare healthcare to a greengrocer), I personally am trying to buy irish at the moment thinking of the effect on the wider econony.