Should a vocalist pay for a P.A. ?

Rigsby

The band my friend is in are having a rather heated discussion with their vocalist as to wheather he should pay for most, if not all of the price of a new P. A. He is the only vocalist in the band. The rest contend that each of them payed for their own gear ( guitars, basses, amps, drums ect ) so as to contribute to the band, so why should n't he ? This would be a basic P.A. for practicing, as a lot of venues have their own.

I'd never really thought about this before, and I got to thinking what our band would do in this situation. In our case, our drummer owns the P.A. so it's unlikely we'll be in this situation. Is it fair that a band should fork out for the "tools of the trade" of a vocalist ?

I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

Doctor J

I think it's fair. The other members have made a financial contribution to the hardware the band requires. When guitarists and bassists have invested in amplification for their own instruments, why should they have to pay to amplify the vocalists instrument too?

Rigsby

Doctor J wrote: »

I think it's fair. The other members have made a financial contribution to the hardware the band requires. When guitarists and bassists have invested in amplification for their own instruments, why should they have to pay to amplify the vocalists instrument too?

Yeah, that's the way I'd see it too.

Doctor J

Did the voicalist offer to chip in on the bass rig? You know what I mean

KevLeppard

No, its not right the vocalist has to cough up for the PA.

Not trying to go too much off the point but, you said that "most" of the gigging venues have a PA, not all of them. So if those guys only get a PA for vocals only, they are straight away restricting gigs. Therefore, the band should be thinking of investing in a PA that you out everything through. As all the band will be using it, its only right that the cost is shared evenly. Get in touch with Savman on this site for advice on what you need for that. He knows his stuff inside out and helped me out BIG TIME in the past, a definite PA guru. Cheers Savman if you are reading this.

The band I am with, myself and the original bass player went halves on the gear (as we founded the band and would have been the 2 members that would have been "long term" as other members come and go), even though we had a vocalist at the time. When the bass player was no longer in the picture, I bought his half of the gear.

Hope this helps. Let us know how your friend gets on.

unclebill98

Well if its just for practice then they should just get there own powered/passive monitor for themselves. If its for gigging then thats a totally different situation.

Bands all chipping in to buy a PA is/can be a recipie for massive problems when someone decides to leave etc. I've been there and done that. It only really works where one person looks after that and effectivly it becomes a business for them to run and have a PA. Of course there contribution means they get a larger slice the profit and so they should.

Savman has a tread about PA's in the Music Production section. Well worth a read for anyone buying a PA.

Rigsby

KevLeppard wrote: »

No, its not right the vocalist has to cough up for the PA.

Not trying to go too much off the point but, you said that "most" of the gigging venues have a PA, not all of them. So if those guys only get a PA for vocals only, they are straight away restricting gigs. Therefore, the band should be thinking of investing in a PA that you out everything through. As all the band will be using it, its only right that the cost is shared evenly. Get in touch with Savman on this site for advice on what you need for that. He knows his stuff inside out and helped me out BIG TIME in the past, a definite PA guru. Cheers Savman if you are reading this.

The band I am with, myself and the original bass player went halves on the gear (as we founded the band and would have been the 2 members that would have been "long term" as other members come and go), even though we had a vocalist at the time. When the bass player was no longer in the picture, I bought his half of the gear.

Hope this helps. Let us know how your friend gets on.

Some interesting points there. But just for the sake of discussion : all other members of a band can work independantly ( depending on size of venue ect ) from a P.A., where as the vocalist can not. I dont know the price of a decent P.A. but it must be within the range of a reasonably good guitar or bass plus the amps. So why would these musicians not be deemed to have made their financial contribution to the band as a whole ?


I know a lot depends on personalities and how long a band have been together, but I find it an interesting topic.

Doctor J

If it's a band P.A. then the band should pay. If it's as the OP termed it then I don't see where the band should get involved.

Rigsby

Thanks for the input guys. I'll show my friend the "savman" thread. Might help in solving the problem.

Savman

All I'll add is, if it's just for rehearsing, then I don't see why the Vocalist can't get spend a few hundred quid on getting a powered monitor and an SM58. €500-600, problem solved.

If it's a gigging rig, no way should it be dumped onto one poor soul who doesn't want to jump into PA ownership, just rent what you need and split the cost.

Bilbert55

The 1st giging band i started out in was around 8 years ago. I was the main vocal of the band and I bought the PA myself. I could only imagine the hassle it would of caused if we all went in on the cost!

I bought it myself because i knew i was always gonna need a PA, in what ever band i would be in. I didn't buy it because i was the singer and others spent enough on their own eqiupment.

So what I'm saying is, the singer shouldn't HAVE to buy the PA. But i wouldn't advise splitting the cost either. 1 member of the band shoud buy it and if the band ever splits, that member still has a PA for his next band....

peter_james

i dont see why the vocalist wouldnt just pay for the p.a. himself. A few years ago i bought one just for rehearsing and it only set me back €300 and then a 58 for 100 or so and it was just fine. That didnt even add up to the cost of a guitar alone

rockandrolldamn

Even just from the maintanance perspective then one person should own the PA the logical choice being the vocalist. a grand will get you a very decent PA these days on Thomann or Musicstore.de the cost of a decent valve amp is generaly greater than that not to mention the cost a decent Guitar or Bass or a good drum kit for that matter.

Now I recon its a different matter if the Band require a very large PA for bigger gigs where the AMPs require Miking up but at that stage you should be running the band as a buissness but your in an enviable situation at that stage anyway!!

bluesyndrome

i think the p.a for the most part is the gig so without it there's not much playing. getting the vocalist to pay for it is silly because at the end of the day the band benefit from it.
My band have hired p.a's for gigs and it always comes out of the bands income or what we get paid on the night.
It's almost the same thing saying if everyone pays for the p.a but only one person sets it up does he get paid for doing that for the night?
If that was the case I'd be loaded! lol

Rigsby

bluesyndrome wrote: »

getting the vocalist to pay for it is silly because at the end of the day the band benefit from it.

The band also benefit from the instruments and amps, but their players have to pay for these. This was the point in my original post.

bluesyndrome

i dunno..its a tough one

if the band are having this problem now, what kind of problem will they have when it comes to copyright and stuff

i do agree that members provide their own instruments but depending on whats being run through the p.a should decide who pays, but i don't think it should all be put on the vocalist.

Appleguy

I would say thats fair if they have the money to pay for it.

However your forgetting that this piece of kit is the most expensive of all of the stuff with a desk included.

I would recommend that the Singer pay what he can and maybe the rest of the band chip in a couple of hundred and after a few gigs he can pay you back. Like when you get paid after a gig he can hardly say he has no money!

Your all in this together to have a bit of craic and make money. But you cant make any money without a pa so the rest of the band will have to take one for the team on this one to get things up and running.

Rigsby

bluesyndrome wrote: »

i dunno..its a tough one

It is. That's why I posted it here to get people's ideas, although it's not my band involved.


Appleguy ; I'd say your advice about the vocalist paying what he can and the band paying the rest, seems the best bet at the moment ( depending on what the vocalist can pay that is :pac: )

I've told my friend to keep an eye on this thread.

Savman

See, the actual purchasing of the rig is a pickle in itself. Internal band politics are a different kettle of fish!
No real 'right' way of doing things, just whatever works for the band in question.

stevood

I always just assumed it was one of the luxuries of being a singer, not having to look after gear, but after reading some of the posts I came to the below conclusion.

If its a p.a. for practicing it might make sense for the singer to spend (for a practice P.a. which is not too expensive 4 input desk and speakers). If its for gigging then I think the whole band should chip in.

It makes sense both ways but which side of the fence changes with each person!!

insinkerator

This is where it is handy to have a guitarist/singer. That way we all buy our instruments, and then collectively chip in for the P.A. Mind you we have only rented thus far.

paulo6891

If you're looking for a simple yes/no answer, then yes, the singer should pay.

However, heres a solution.

Buy one large(ish) mixing desk between everyone with the number of inputs that you need.

the singer could be responsible for buying a very high quality mic and plugging it in to the mixer.

The quality of amps used by people are usually pretty low to be fair. Theyre loud but that's about it. you could get them all to invest in amps that are smaller in size/quieter, yet of a higher quality (people seem to think higher wattage = higher quality) and you could then mic up those amps and connect them to the mixer. each musician would be responsible for micing their instrument.

Then the band connect the mixer to the PA system, which is bought by all the band, as it will be effecting all of them.

If the band ever split up, they could just sell the mixer/PA on ebay and split the money.

One of the benefits of this system would be that the band could record their own music/demos/lp's etc so could save them some money in the long term.

Brethitmanhart

No way should the singer pay for the PA

I'm the singer in a band, I have my own PA that the band use...but I think that 1. if the band are giving him stick over this then they wont last anyway.
2. They have to respect the fact that being a singer has it's good and bad points, (a) bad point: is that your voice is dynamic and you can **** it up with gigs and stuff,actually can pain you aswell.
(b) good point: is that you don't have to buy as much gear.

The singer should buy a good mic, that's it.
The PA is needed for the whole band, do they do backing singing? are they gonna be asked to pay for secondary mics?
When you get into these details and have problems then it's not gonna work out anyway....it should be the whole band paying for the Pa as alot of places don't have one and they will probably need it for gigging.
To Be honest the system that they should work out is that from gigs you don't just split the money evenly, a portion or all of it should go to a band fund which is used to pay for things like this. If you have this system then there will be less fights etc. , It can be hard for some people otherwise because what if a guitarist is richer than a bassist, and th guitarist expects the bassist to keep up with his spending?

KevLeppard

Rigsby, you certainly started a good debate on this one!! Lot of interesting viewpoints.

Having read over them, bearing in mind that the band only want a system for rehearsing, probably the best solution is that the vocalist in the your mates band buys 2 monitors and a powered mixed along with a vocal mic. Probably get a good deal in BuyandSell. A couple of hundred, nothing too off the wall. But to expect the vocalist to fork out for a full gigging rig is crazy. If the full band go in on it, and if someone leaves, the others just buy his share.

Just a side point, I do disagree that if one person own the PA, then that person should get a few extra quid from the gigs. I think this can cause more harm than good, and possibly end up with a band breakup. I think it was Savman that mentioned "politics".

Doctor J

Well that's just it. A full band P.A. wasn't mentioned, this is just a P.A. to amplify the vocals at rehearsals.

Welease

I think you need to be more specific about what type of PA you are looking for..

If it is just an basic PA to amplify the singers voice at rehersals, then he/she should pay for it..
If it was a PA that would be used to mic up all instruments, and have a mixer etc. then the band should pay for it.

23

Rigsby wrote: »

This would be a basic P.A. for practicing, as a lot of venues have their own.

Very interesting thread. In my opinion a singer should/must get his on P.A. to be able to practice.They are not that dear. It's like having a guitarist that ask the band to put money toward an amp....it would not make sense to me.

Rigsby

Welease wrote: »

If it was a PA that would be used to mic up all instruments, and have a mixer etc. then the band should pay for it.

Initially they just wanted a p.a. for rehearsals, but after seeing this thread I think they have reached a compromise and are opting for your above suggestion i.e. everybody pays and they get a decent system, ( as they did not have one already ) where they dont have to rely on the venue having one.

It has certainly been an interesting debate, and to be honest, I was surprised at the diverse views.

On their behalf I say thanks to everyone for their input.

EL_Loco

If the criteria for the question is just for practice, so that the singer can be heard then I'd just buy a largish keyboard amp, that has the frequency ranges needed. Why would you need anything more? "I'm a singer, I need a PA"? you just need an amp with a few EQ ranges to tweak to make them more vocal friendly.
In the above example I'd say, of course that cost should fall to the singer.

On the whole, if you're buying a PA at all, then buy a good one, it can be used for the "pub gig" situation. Then it's a band asset, and the cost should be divided. Up to the band then if someone wants to take full ownership.

I've split the cost of a PA before, still have part ownership, we're all friends and no one fell out. A rare case by all accounts.

Flesh Gorden

I'm a guitarist and I need a guitar amp to be heard - I wouldn't get very far without one

I definitely think the singer should make a serious contribution to buying themselves some equipment


I reckon I've spent best part of 10k on gear over the last 9 years ( very little these days - 300 in 2 years) as would anyone wanting a reliable pro setup

Its a hard thing to think of playing with someone who has never bothered to buy themselves some form of equipment to support their dream

A singer who has some form of P.A would be one step ahead in my books - shows commitment - not just to the band but to the dream of making a living from music

most singers I've known or played with have proved themselves bit of a burden at some point - owning all or most of the PA would put yourself in a good position if you really do something to cock things up.



.

bayles

I found myself in this situation years ago , tell your mate to buy a powerfull keyboard amp as this should be sufficiant and can handle the very high and very low frequencies should he decide to put a guitar through it.
If the rest of the band are not happy with that then he knows that they are just trying to blag a free PA , although PAs can be picked up now relativaly cheaply for a pretty basic model but if it is just for rehearsals a good quality keyboard amp should be sufficant and its easier to transport about .
Hope this is of some help