Does our government actually give a sh*t??

peanuthead

While in work this week, during one of my ESL adult classes,we had a discussion about the environment. We were talking about all things green, when we got onto the subject of the plastic bag levy. So there I was, talking up Ireland's decision to charge 22c for plastic bags, in the hope that we would reduce the amount being used, hence do a bit to improve recycling/environment.

When all of a sudden one of my students tells me about what Bangladesh have decided to do to tackle the problem of too much plastic. Factories have, as of 3 years ago, stopped manufacturing plastic bags, and now only produce paper and material bags. They have ceased production of plastic bags, to ensure that they are no longer used, in a genuine attempt to improve the environment.

It kind of left me thinking: Does the government actually give a sh*t about the environment, or is the plastic bag levy just another way for them to line their pockets, using the environment as a cop-out? What do other people think?

Tomk1

No
But they do care about getting payed, (The green party lol)

Húrin

peanuthead wrote: »

It kind of left me thinking: Does the government actually give a sh*t about the environment

No










well, maybe a few I can think of, such as Noel Dempsey, and the green TDs. But they're swimming up a waterfall for all the good it does.

robtri

They care as much as every other government, bangladesh's government doesn't care about the enviroment when it banned plastic bags, it was about money to them, it was cheaper to ban the bags than to pay out huge amounts of money get things working again after massives floods and guess wht was the main culprit for the floods happening.... plastic bags choking up the drainage system....
http://www.earthresource.org/campaigns/capp/capp-background-info.html

Húrin

robtri wrote: »

They care as much as every other government, bangladesh's government doesn't care about the enviroment when it banned plastic bags, it was about money to them, it was cheaper to ban the bags than to pay out huge amounts of money get things working again after massives floods and guess wht was the main culprit for the floods happening.... plastic bags choking up the drainage system....
http://www.earthresource.org/campaigns/capp/capp-background-info.html

Surely flood damage is an environmental issue?

robtri

Húrin wrote: »

Surely flood damage is an environmental issue?

It is, but it was not the driving factor for the ban on bags, it was an economic decission, it was about saving money not the enviroment....

Cabaal

Ask yourself this, does the average joe on the street care?

Sadly the majority don't give a feck and can't even be bothered to properly sort their recyclable material in their bins properly, use energy saving light bulbs, compost garden and kitchen waste properly or at all, walk, cycle or take the bus instead of driving on journeys that are suitable (ie: going to small shop up the road alot of people drive!).

You can't place 100% blame with the government on this as the government could come up with the best plan in the world but it means **** if people don't care and are not prepared to put in the work/time to make it work

noel farrell

why should the bother with the recession recycle waste has no buyers most of it is going back to land fill ask the truck driver :rolleyes:

peanuthead

Im not laying 100% blame on the government, I know only too well that people here don't care about recycling or the environment. But to be honest, its the same old story all across the board here in Ireland where any serious issue is concerned, be it environmental, political or financial.

Noel, you mention the recession, take that for example. What exactly are the powers that be doing to help get Ireland through this hard time? Fcuk all, thats what. What systems have they put in place, apart from money making ones, to benefit the environment? Fcuk all. Well, now that I say that, I know that they collect our green bins for free, but not without increasing the price of the black bin tags first.

As someone else pointed out Bangldesh's decision wasn't purely for environmental reasons. Okay fair enough, but I just feel very let down by our government, I really do.

Húrin

robtri wrote: »

It is, but it was not the driving factor for the ban on bags, it was an economic decission, it was about saving money not the enviroment....

Preventing flood damage is an environmental issue. Preventing flood damage saves money that would be lost due to a future flood.

Besides, where does all wealth ultimately come from?

The separation between "the environment" and "the economy" is a false one.

Cabaal wrote: »

Ask yourself this, does the average joe on the street care?

Well why should he? Individuals caring alone have approximately zero effect on influencing the environment, and even less the climate. More than almost any other issue this is where the government must provide leadership.

One might feel more virtuous by walking instead of driving, and buying CFL bulbs, but that is not the same thing as making a meaningful difference.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Banning plasic bags isn't a good solution. There are many applications where plastic bags are required.

The levy works extremely well.

robtri

Húrin wrote: »

Preventing flood damage is an environmental issue. Preventing flood damage saves money that would be lost due to a future flood.

Besides, where does all wealth ultimately come from?

The separation between "the environment" and "the economy" is a false one.

I am in agreement with you, my point was only that the enviroment took a back stage to this, it was soley a financial decission.... but good a result for the enviroment over there and I am very happy at it.....

Cabaal

Húrin wrote: »

Well why should he? Individuals caring alone have approximately zero effect on influencing the environment, and even less the climate. More than almost any other issue this is where the government must provide leadership.

One might feel more virtuous by walking instead of driving, and buying CFL bulbs, but that is not the same thing as making a meaningful difference.

Thank you you've proven my point, its much easier for the average joe to shift the blame to the government and say what I do has not affect then take even 0.00001% responsibility

Until the average joe changes this mindset it won't matter what the government does or plans for, everybody has to change for anything to work here

Húrin

Cabaal wrote: »

Thank you you've proven my point, its much easier for the average joe to shift the blame to the government and say what I do has not affect then take even 0.00001% responsibility

Until the average joe changes this mindset it won't matter what the government does or plans for, everybody has to change for anything to work here

I am guessing you do not think like this on every issue. Why environmental issues?

It is false to claim that nothing will ever change unless we all become self-righteous and do everything "green" - how can this make any sense in an entire economy that is unsustainable?

Would you expect everyone in the country to lay a few metres of a new road that was being built from Dublin to Cork?

ART6

Cabaal wrote: »

Thank you you've proven my point, its much easier for the average joe to shift the blame to the government and say what I do has not affect then take even 0.00001% responsibility

Until the average joe changes this mindset it won't matter what the government does or plans for, everybody has to change for anything to work here

Or possibly the "average Joe" has enough on his mind paying his mortgage and feeding his family that he hasn't time to worry about the environmental services that he has paid for royally in taxes?

PaiDragon

I don't think it they care about the environment ....Take for example this new carbon tax they are going to bring in ....how convenient it is that when they budget is in deficit that they get a Green Minister to champion this new Tax.
Which is really just to raise extra revenue for their ailing finances .....

Tipsy Mac

On shopping trips before the levy I would regularly find myself with a minimum of 5 plastic bags on relatively small purchases, things like buying a DVD, newspaper, magazine etc, now I either bring my own bag or a paper one is normally supplied. I would say my use of plastic bags would be down about 95%, I think that can only be good. Compare our use to the UK's and if anyone here has been on a trip their shopping they will see just how much plastic bags they use, it's crazy.

Cabaal

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

On shopping trips before the levy I would regularly find myself with a minimum of 5 plastic bags on relatively small purchases, things like buying a DVD, newspaper, magazine etc, now I either bring my own bag or a paper one is normally supplied. I would say my use of plastic bags would be down about 95%, I think that can only be good. Compare our use to the UK's and if anyone here has been on a trip their shopping they will see just how much plastic bags they use, it's crazy.

Ireland used to be like the UK plastic bag wise, so the levy was a bloody good move

I tend to bring my own bags shopping and even for likes of magazines, dvd's etc shops always try give me a paper or plastic bag I just give it back to them,

Cabaal

Húrin wrote: »

I am guessing you do not think like this on every issue. Why environmental issues?

It is false to claim that nothing will ever change unless we all become self-righteous and do everything "green" - how can this make any sense in an entire economy that is unsustainable?

ah no I do tend to think the same on many issues, economy for example, you can't have a group of people refusing a pay freeze/pay cut etc and threatening strikes while everyone else has. Better have a job then not for example.

I'm not saying everyone becomes self-righteous I'm saying people must do their part, they can't expect everyone else to and they do nothing because they are lazy.

Thing is costs going up do not always come into it, I changed from normal wheely bins and sorting and bringing my recyclable material myself and it saves me about 16e a month over wheely bins

The examples I've given are not hard to do, sorting your recyclable rubbish correctly is not rocket science neither is using something like a green cone for kitchen waste

ART6 wrote: »

Or possibly the "average Joe" has enough on his mind paying his mortgage and feeding his family that he hasn't time to worry about the environmental services that he has paid for royally in taxes?

Again see my wheely bin example, though I guess the average joe has too much on his mind to bother putting rubbish in the bin on the street...much easier just drop it on the ground. :rolleyes:

All it takes is a tiny bit of efford to make a change, I've the food costs and mortgage same as anyone else but I can very easily make a difference without major major changes. Only thing stopping other people is they ae being lazy and think its hard.

Húrin

Cabaal wrote: »

ah no I do tend to think the same on many issues, economy for example, you can't have a group of people refusing a pay freeze/pay cut etc and threatening strikes while everyone else has. Better have a job then not for example.

I'm not saying everyone becomes self-righteous I'm saying people must do their part, they can't expect everyone else to and they do nothing because they are lazy.

But why do you expect people to make the more expensive choice just because it's greener?

The nice thing about laws are that people don't have to like them, they just have to obey them.

Thing is costs going up do not always come into it, I changed from normal wheely bins and sorting and bringing my recyclable material myself and it saves me about 16e a month over wheely bins

The examples I've given are not hard to do, sorting your recyclable rubbish correctly is not rocket science neither is using something like a green cone for kitchen waste

The whole economy is unsustainable. I'm talking about a lot more than just more rigorous recycling.

cat&mouse

More worrying is milk in their plastic containers & drinking water in thir plastics. We are drinking from them. They should be isold n carboard cartons like the UK. In ASDA N.I. they hand out lplastic bags no problem & do not charge.

Cabaal

Húrin wrote: »

But why do you expect people to make the more expensive choice just because it's greener?

You don't have to pay more money just to be green, as I've already given an example you can very easily be green and actually save alot of money.