Oil Leak

sammy657

Hi there i had a leak on my car as the oil cap was not on tight enough and oil started coming out. I drove it like this for 100 miles. When i got back home and checked the oil it was all down the engine and it was just below the min on the dipstick. No oil light came on at all and i heard no noises from the engine. Do you think i have caused any damage? Many thanks

ART6

sammy657 wrote: »

Hi there i had a leak on my car as the oil cap was not on tight enough and oil started coming out. I drove it like this for 100 miles. When i got back home and checked the oil it was all down the engine and it was just below the min on the dipstick. No oil light came on at all and i heard no noises from the engine. Do you think i have caused any damage? Many thanks

Unlikely I'd think if the oil warning light didn't come on. There is always oil below the level of the dipstick and with a bit of luck in your case enough to keep the engine lubricated for a while.

Darragh29

No you're probably grand but if you kept driving the light should have come on and you'd have a bigger mess to clean up.

sammy657

It didnt come on at all from what i saw. Neither was there any noises or the car cutting out. The mechanic did a diagnostic test and nothing showed up for any engine trouble or worn bearings or anything would this show up on a diagnostic? It had a few drips on the dipstick below the min level

Darragh29

sammy657 wrote: »

It didnt come on at all from what i saw. Neither was there any noises or the car cutting out. The mechanic did a diagnostic test and nothing showed up for any engine trouble or worn bearings or anything would this show up on a diagnostic? It had a few drips on the dipstick below the min level

I wouldn't worry about it OP. No engine damage like main bearing wear will show up on the computerised diagnostic test anyway. Once the oil pressure light didn't come on, assuming that this circuit is working (if the oil light comes on just before you start the car and goes out just after the engine starts, then it is working fine), then the engine has been supplied with oil and it is unlikely that you have a problem here.

If the oil filler cap is loose, you'll have to get this replaced.

sammy657

It wasnt loose as such it was just it wasnt screwed on properly. Well there was no noises coming from the engine or anything so im assuming everything is fine. Yeah its working properly as when i switched it on it came up then went out. If anything happened to the engine would i have known by now? Its just i only bought it this morning

DublinDilbert

It might be worth getting the engine steam cleaned if there's a lot of oil around it. You might be able to clean it by hand either....

From what you said, you probably lost about 0.5 to 1 litre of oil.

sammy657

Ah is that alot to lose then? Yeah i had it cleaned off the guy said he will leave it there till monday tho to dry out properly. I noticed there was alot of drops coming out well not alot but you know like something dripping slowly. Noticed no noise from the engine tho i did have the radio on but im sure it would be a louder sound than the radio if i had damage to the engine. Also when i parked it up i left it for 15 mins to cool down abit as the engine was hot plus steam was coming from where the oil was dripping is this normal although the car was not overheating? I parked it on an incline also and checked the dipstick so im sure this gave an innacurate reading as well as leaving it only for 15 mins as it was still warm to the touch (the engine)

Darragh29

sammy657 wrote: »

It wasnt loose as such it was just it wasnt screwed on properly. Well there was no noises coming from the engine or anything so im assuming everything is fine. Yeah its working properly as when i switched it on it came up then went out. If anything happened to the engine would i have known by now? Its just i only bought it this morning

Yeah it didn't run out of oil, it just went low on oil. Once that oil pressure warning light didn't come on, that means that as long as the engine was running, there was oil running through the pump and through the oil journals that feed components like main bearings and also components at the top of the engine like the camshaft, valve gear, cams, etc. I seriously don't think you have a problem here, if you did, you'd hear it...

BTW, how did you know you had a problem here at all??? I mean how did you know the oil was coming out of the oil filler hole???

sammy657

Cos when i parked up you could see it was loose and the oil had come out of it. Anyhoo there was drips of oil plus i drove for like 100 miles like it so hopefully not alot would of come out only from the top of the engine as most of it would still be in the engine. I did check the dipstick after on an incline after leaving it to cool for 15 mins so it was still warm to touch plus being on an incline it proberly gave me a false reading as it being below the min mark. My gf's cousin didnt see any warning light neither did my gf and i didnt from what i saw because i was driving and loking at the road. Certainly no noises from what i heard tho i had the radio on but im sure it would be a loud noise higher than that

Darragh29

sammy657 wrote: »

Cos when i parked up you could see it was loose and the oil had come out of it. Anyhoo there was drips of oil plus i drove for like 100 miles like it so hopefully not alot would of come out only from the top of the engine as most of it would still be in the engine. I did check the dipstick after on an incline after leaving it to cool for 15 mins so it was still warm to touch plus being on an incline it proberly gave me a false reading as it being below the min mark. My gf's cousin didnt see any warning light neither did my gf and i didnt from what i saw because i was driving and loking at the road. Certainly no noises from what i heard tho i had the radio on but im sure it would be a loud noise higher than that

Well if it ain't broke, it doesn't need fixin'! Don't worry about it!

sammy657

So i proberly lost about a litre of oil like this? Is this enough to cover the outside of the engine with oil and drip a little and make it steam? Also when it showed up i hardly had any oil is this cos i should have let it cool down even more and parked it on a level surface when i checked it? Could only happen to me i love this car too its a 99 opel astra

Darragh29

sammy657 wrote: »

So i proberly lost about a litre of oil like this? Is this enough to cover the outside of the engine with oil and drip a little and make it steam? Also when it showed up i hardly had any oil is this cos i should have let it cool down even more and parked it on a level surface when i checked it? Could only happen to me i love this car too its a 99 opel astra

Yeah, it's the way it comes out of the oil filler hole, it splatters everywhere and bounces off the bonnet and just makes a mess. You can get a water based engine degreaser in a motor factor and carefully clean it up. If you get one of those squirty things that you see for cleaning kitchen table tops, (see pic attached) and empty it out and put in some WD40 or engine degreaser and strategically clean the site, you'll have it cleaner than it was beforehand.

If it was my car, I'd bring it to a cash wash (the manual type with the lance) and use the degreaser and then give it a quick shot of the car wash jet to run the degreaser and oil out of the engine bay, but I wouldn't recommend doing this as you need to be able to identify and avoid electronic components, sensors, etc.

Type 17

As mentioned, you won't have damaged the engine (didn't lose enough oil for that to happen), but DO NOT pressure wash the engine (with a jet-wash or similar) - any car under about 15 years old has electronics all over the engine bay (ECU is usually inside the car, but there are lots of complex sensors and coil-packs, etc).
To be fair, in the old days (70's, early 80's cars), the worst that you could do was wet the distributor/points and have to dry them out a bit, so the concept of jet-washing an engine bay wasn't too bad an idea back then.

You've got away with leaving the oil cap off the new car, but don't ruin it with a jet-wash. Use degreaser as mentioned, but don't use anything more powerful than a garden hose with a watering-can type nozzle.

sammy657

Ah the garage has done that for me but told me to leave it dry untill monday when they re open. They filled it back up with oil and they said it was fine and put the top on properly. Plus on the way to the garage i did stall and give it hard revs as i was on a hill and i heard nothing out of the ordinary just the high revs. Just worried ive knackered the engine. If i have how long before i know its knackered 100 miles 500 miles?

Darragh29

sammy657 wrote: »

Ah the garage has done that for me but told me to leave it dry untill monday when they re open. They filled it back up with oil and they said it was fine and put the top on properly. Plus on the way to the garage i did stall and give it hard revs as i was on a hill and i heard nothing out of the ordinary just the high revs. Just worried ive knackered the engine. If i have how long before i know its knackered 100 miles 500 miles?

When an engine runs out of oil, the first sign you usually hear that there is a problem is immediately. Around your crankshaft main bearings, you have shell bearings which are designed to wear down really quickly if there is no oil. The result after a few short minutes of running and engine with no oil is that these shell bearings will wear down quickly and you'll hear a noise that sounds like loud knocking from your engine. Like a load of hammers banging on the engine block.

Seriously, I'd save my worrying if I was you for when you actually do have a problem! Because you don't have one here!

Type 17

sammy657 wrote: »

Ah the garage has done that for me but told me to leave it dry untill monday when they re open...

That's fine, then. They either did it carefully and it's fine, or they're the one's that screwed it up, and they'll have to fix it

sammy657 wrote: »

...on the way to the garage i did stall and give it hard revs as i was on a hill and i heard nothing out of the ordinary just the high revs. Just worried ive knackered the engine. If i have how long before i know its knackered 100 miles 500 miles?

Unless you heard a horrible banging noise as you drove along (like a couple of guys with hammers banging on the engine) and had the oil light on, then you haven't damaged your engine. Car makers specify about 3.5 to 4.5 litres of oil for the average engine, but an engine can run on as little as 1.5-2 litres for a short time. The reason that there is meant to be more in there is to have enough liquid to absorb engine heat when working hard (towing, climbing, etc), to distribute the accumulated sludge through a larger volume of oil, thus allowing for longer service intervals, and to have some in reserve for when it is allowed to run low (like you did )

allthedoyles

Darragh29 wrote: »

When an engine runs out of oil, the first sign you usually hear that there is a problem is immediately. Around your crankshaft main bearings, you have shell bearings which are designed to wear down really quickly if there is no oil.

Daragh
Could you tell me , how many miles is it safe to drive , when the oil warning light comes on ?

We have a 02 Golf 1.4 petrol and it is burning a lot of oil . 100k

sammy657

Ah thats good i heard nothing like that. Just the engine as normal with the radio on but im sure i would of heard it above the radio. The oil light as far as i know never came on and there was a few drips left on the dipstick certinaly enough to wipe away with a tissue tho not much but you could see it alright as i wiped it off would the engine not last hundreds of miles if that banging had come about?

Type 17

sammy657 wrote: »

... would the engine not last hundreds of miles if that banging had come about?

The banging is the crank and the shell bearings slapping together as the pistons change direction - it is metal grinding on metal.

Friction causes heat, and heat causes expansion - what will happen within seconds of losing oil pressure is that the metal parts (crank/bearing shells and pistons/cylinder walls) will overheat and expand and, because they are too big to slide over each other, will jam (seize is the engineering term) and the parts involved will be rendered useless. In extreme cases they can even weld themselves together.

This means that if you are driving at any speed (engine under any load above idling), you only have a few seconds to turn the engine off when the oil light comes on before damage starts to occur!

You'll get away with putting a few years' worth of wear on the engine if you don't turn it off within a few seconds, but if you continue to drive, you'll find that it stops (forever) within several hundred metres...

sammy657

Ah so i would not have even got to the garage which was 50 miles back from where i noticed it? Do you think it was just oil splashing out the top of the engine and it had alot of oil further down that went no where. Like i said i heard no loud noises just the engine as normal but could i start hearing these noises now its been corrected?

Type 17

sammy657 wrote: »

it was just oil splashing out the top of the engine and it had alot of oil further down that went no where.

Yes, there was about 4 litres to start, and if you still had a bit showing on the dipstick, then you only lost about 1.5 litres.

You won't hear any noises in the future, unless you lose oil pressure in the future, and this is no more likely to happen now than it was before you spilled some of the oil.

Instruction for the future:

Relax, and enjoy your new car!
Make sure that you replace the oil cap correctly!
In the (extremely unlikely) event that the oil light ever comes on, dip the clutch immediately, and coast to the side of the road as you turn the engine off! (However, you will probably complete you entire driving career without this ever happening)

Darragh29

allthedoyles wrote: »

Daragh
Could you tell me , how many miles is it safe to drive , when the oil warning light comes on ?

We have a 02 Golf 1.4 petrol and it is burning a lot of oil . 100k

No problem. When the oil pressure light comes on, you should stop immediately and check your oil. Your particular car burns oil at a higher rate than most cars so it is very important to check it regularly and keep it at the correct level.

There is no "safe distance" to drive with an oil pressure problem. Once that light is on and you keep driving, you are risking serious/total engine damage.

sammy657

So even if there is no oil showing on the dipstick there is still enough oil left in the engine? Yeah there wernt alot of oil on the tissue just drips wiping off the dipstick. But yeah no knocking noises or rattling sounds as far as i could hear like i said just a few drips left on the dipstick. How much oil do you think i had left as it was splashing out the top? Many thanks

Type 17

sammy657 wrote: »

So even if there is no oil showing on the dipstick there is still enough oil left in the engine?

The answer is that there MIGHT be enough to run the engine safely.

Once the oil is low enough that you can't see any on the dipstick, all you can say is that there is somewhere between about 3 litres and zero(!) litres of oil in the engine.

If you can't see oil on the dipstick, you must top up with oil (in 500 ml steps) until you do see some on the dipstick. Note that dipstick measurements are only accurate once the engine has been stopped for at least 15-20 minutes (otherwise the oil hasn't drained back down into the sump).

sammy657

Ya thats what i was on about that i had left it for about 15 mins for it to cool down but it was still warm plus was on an incline so im assuming the oil had not fully dropped down into the sump still as it was still warm and it was pointed downwards on a hill

Type 17

This link shows some pictures of what you avoided (Pic 1 and the third-last and second-last pics) - This is an aircraft engine, but it is a similar design to a car engine. Note that all of the parts shown are scrap as the excessive heat has weakened the metal that they're made from.

sammy657

Dam thats quite bad. How much oil do you think splashed out? The engine was covered but i assuming it only needed a little bit of oil for this to happen am i right? I was driving at about between 50mph and 60mph most of the time

Type 17

sammy657 wrote: »

How much oil do you think splashed out?

Type 17 in post 22, above wrote:

There was about 4 litres to start, and if you still had a bit showing on the dipstick, then you only lost about 1.5 litres.

......

sammy657

Ah thanks mate im just worried thats all many thanks

Fishtits

Sammy, relax.

To sum up all the relevant advice - if your oil warning lamp didn't light up - you're safe.

Once the warning lamp comes on you're screwed, if you're cruising and it illuminates, your motor will reduce itself to scrap in 500 meters, and grind you to a halt in the process.

Cheer up & move on.

PS allthedoyles,

Your model is notorious for using oil (disgraceful IMHO but...) all you can do is check the level weekly. The situation should the oil lamp illuminate is as described above. (get rid of it and buy a Focus... the Golf is the most over rated car on the road IMHO - and we have a trouble free 45K TDI, I still hate it, radio at your shin, etc etc.)

Darragh29

Fishtits wrote: »

Sammy, relax.

To sum up all the relevant advice - if your oil warning lamp didn't light up - you're safe.

Once the warning lamp comes on you're screwed, if you're cruising and it illuminates, your motor will reduce itself to scrap in 500 meters, and grind you to a halt in the process.

Cheer up & move on.

This is not necessarily at all true either. There is no way of telling what damage could be done, there could be none and there could be a lot.

Dartz

I remember reading an article in Bike Magazine that might be relevent.

They took a Kawasaki 600 and ran the engine while the bike at high revs until all the coolant boiled off. It ran out of fuel before going bang.

They refilled the petrol tank, and drained all the oil, putting a litre back in, reasoning that the oil itself was still cooling the engine. The oil that drained out was still so hot it melted the catch tray. It was runny as water and generally hazardous.

They tapped the throttle wide open, started it up, and the thing started backfiring when it hit the rev-limiter. Limiter cut the spark, letting unburnt fuel through to the exhaust where it exploded on the red-hot metal. The result of this being the exhaust and catalytic converter catching fire after about a minute.

They doused the flames and killed it, leaving it overnight to cool. Refilled the oil and coolant. Started it. Not a bother on it.

Truth is, unless you run right out of oil, you're not going to kill your engine. Oil in your sump is down there to cool off, and make sure air/debris doesnt get into the oil circuit. If that happens, it'll starve itself of oil no matter how much is in there. Even if you have about a litre or two in there, the engine will stay lubricated, but the oil itself will be knackered faster as it heats up and begins to carbonise. Knackered oil won't lubricate, so then your engine dies.

Fishtits

Darragh, I understand what you're saying, But...

My advice was aimed at the OP.

Given his detailing on what happened, I'd say he's OK.

He wasn't interested in the proportionality of wear or whatever, he just wanted to know if his car would work.

Based on what he'd posted, I'd say he's OK.

sammy657

Well there was hardly any on the dipstick only a few drops. But i was told that i only lost about a litre of oil as there is oil in the engine even if there is none showing on the dipstick. I left it for 15 mins to cool down but when i checked it was still warm and i checked it on an incline and i still got a few drops off the dipstick. Oil was all over the engine and was steaming but im sure because it was splashing only a little oil would cause that mess am i correct? Many thanks

ART6

sammy657 wrote: »

Well there was hardly any on the dipstick only a few drops. But i was told that i only lost about a litre of oil as there is oil in the engine even if there is none showing on the dipstick. I left it for 15 mins to cool down but when i checked it was still warm and i checked it on an incline and i still got a few drops off the dipstick. Oil was all over the engine and was steaming but im sure because it was splashing only a little oil would cause that mess am i correct? Many thanks

A litre of oil over the engine would make one heck of a mess. Even a little oil would soon cover a hot engine. The loss of a litre would not threaten your engine at all. In fact dipsticks generally don't reach to the bottom of the sump. Their purpose is to show a minimum and maximum oil level, not how much oil is actually in there.

sammy657

Its not like i had no cap at all its just that it was not screwed on properly. There was a mess of oil everywhere alright as well as a few drips below the bonnet and stains on the floor. Ah i see well like i said there was drips on the dipstick alright enough to wipe off onto abit of tissue paper

sammy657

Sorry about this guys i have just been reading that the astra has just a low pressure warning light is this true? This must mean that even if no oil is showing on the dipstick or a few drips there must be some still in there am i correct?

Darragh29

sammy657 wrote: »

Sorry about this guys i have just been reading that the astra has just a low pressure warning light is this true? This must mean that even if no oil is showing on the dipstick or a few drips there must be some still in there am i correct?

The low oil pressure warning light is the light we have been discussing here. Even though their might be no oil as per the dipstick, there is still oil in the engine, hence why your oil light/low oil pressure warning light didn't come on.

sammy657

Ah i see thanks mate i just assume tho that the oil light comes on when the oil drops below the min mark. Has anyone else had this trouble? The engine was covered alright but im sure there was still oil at the bottom of the engine and being picked up from the sump by the pump as it was only splashing out the cap at the top of the engine because it was not screwed on properly

Darragh29

sammy657 wrote: »

Ah i see thanks mate i just assume tho that the oil light comes on when the oil drops below the min mark. Has anyone else had this trouble? The engine was covered alright but im sure there was still oil at the bottom of the engine and being picked up from the sump by the pump as it was only splashing out the cap at the top of the engine because it was not screwed on properly

On your car there is only one oil light. That's the low oil pressure warning light. This will come on when there is low oil pressure, caused by a lack of oil in the oil distribution system. It doesn't matter how much oil was splattered over your engine, all that matters is that the low oil pressure warning light didn't come on.

ART6

Like Darragh says, it's a pressure warning, not a level warning, and it's common to most cars that I know of. As long as you have oil pressure you're OK, although running on low oil isn't to be recommended as the limited amount of oil will become fouled eventually. Even so, that wouldn't happen in the distance you travelled. Splashing from a loose or misplaced cap will make an awful mess that looks much worse than it is. Stop worrying about it:D

sammy657

Ah thanks mate. Well the garage just topped up the oil again is this correct? As the oil that i saw everywhere looked quite new had a golden colour to it. But yeah i traveled between 100 and 115 miles cant quite actually remember but between them distances

sammy657

Ah also people cos i had the oil leak and there was alot of oil over the engine should i replace the timing belt? I know for a fact the car has a timing belt cover but would the oil get into this cover?

sammy657

Anyone?