Egyptian Mau Cats

Sandrease

Hello,
I'm thinking of having a cat and Egyptian Mau caught my eye. The silver one. Could somebody explain me what should I be aware of buying a cat. This would be my first pedigree cat, so could somebody tell me, how can I really be sure that kitten is healthy and well looked after, what about pedigree documents. I read some advertisments over internet and I came across that they have to be vaccinated, wormed and registered. What does it mean registered? Is it safe at all to buy a kitten over internet through an ad? Or should I be looking for a breeder? Maybe somebody knows a breeder? How can I be sure that people are breeders at all? I noticed an ad on donedeal.ie that kittens will arrive in March. I just want my next best friend to be healthy and happy. I want a loving cat who would purr a lot and loved me I want a friend who would wait for me at home and I know that I will look after him/her the best I can.

Thank you.

The Sweeper

Sandrease

Buying a cat - first of all, not to put you off, but is there something specific about the Egyptian Mau breed that you are attracted to? Because you could pick up an unusual silver tabby at any of the pounds - you might even get an Egyptian Mau cross. If you want a cat for characteristics, but not necessarily to show them or breed them, consider a rescue or a crossbreed. You don't have to, but just for the sake of the cat that would otherwise go to death row at the pound, you'd be doing something good.

Now, moving on to buying a kitten - breeders advertising kittens own one or more female cats. They may or may not also own a stud, which is a breeding male cat. Stud toms can be high maintenance though, because they caterwaul a lot, calling for a female, and they spray everywhere, so it's not uncommon to find a breeder who has females only and just hires out a stud when they need one.

A cat's gestation period is around 63 days, hence you'll get advance ads in the paper. I wouldn't buy a kitten until I'd seen its mother, seen it with its mother, seen where its being raised and visited the breeder to get a feel for the kitten's start in life.

There will be two kinds of pure bred kittens - show standard and pet standard. Show standard are also breeding standard. To me, I would give a breeder kudos if they offered to sell me a pet standard kitten and insisted I have it neutered. It shows concern for both the individual cat, and the breed they support.

Depending on the breed you're buying, there will usually be a price difference between a pet standard and show standard kitten. That price difference is sometimes more pronounced in 'patterned' cats like Egyptian Maus or Bengals because it's very obvious from the start whether they have good markings or dramatic markings.

All kittens should be vaccinated against the diseases they may get if they have outdoor access. Check with your Eygptian Mau breeder what vaccination they give. The kittens will have three sets of vaccinations and will then require an annual booster. You should get a vaccination card that has the labels from the vax bottles stuck onto it, with the date the vax was given.

Registration - kittens should be microchipped, and that microchip number is registered with the microchip database and the local council, so that if the cat is ever lost and recovered, they can scan for a chip and up come your details, so they know to return it to you.

If you aren't going to show or breed your cat, I would strongly recommend you have it neutered. It will be a happier and healthier cat.

In terms of choosing a kitten, your kitten should be energetic and interested, affectionate and not too free with its claws. You'll find if you approach a litter from five weeks onwards, they bimble towards you - it'll become clear who's the extrovert and who's shy. In terms of health, your kitten should have clear eyes with no discharge. Ask the breeder if they have had any problems and assess their surroundings - they should be in clean, dry surrounds, with access to fresh food and clean water.

In terms of adoption age, kittens can be weaned from five weeks onwards, but it's best if they stay with their mom and each other for longer than that. Eight weeks is a good target, personally I prefer closer to 10 weeks. You can have them neutered early and, if you can find a vet who's done the procedure on young kittens before, 10-12 weeks is as good a time as any. They recover more quickly than if they're older.

Have you had a cat before?

Themadhouse

Hi. These are still v rare cats however there is a reputable breeder near belfast. Her cattery name is acclaim. So if u google acclaim cats u will prob get a link to her site. Or u could go to the gccf website and search for breeders. You will find her there too. there is a show in limerick in feb and u might c one there, but i cant promise u that for sure. There's another show in ballymena in march and u will def see some there. Another in dublin in april and again u will probably c one there. Can i ask which county the add was advertised for? As for registered kittens that means the breeder is registered with a governing council. Kind of like the irish kennel club only it. For cats. If it's in the south it will be more than likely registered with the gccfi and if it's north the gccf. There are 2 more but they r mainly in the uk and europe. a reputable breeder will like u to make an effort in visiting them and their cats so u can c in person and so they can meet u in person. This is not always possible but i would advise that u think about it. As it is still a rare enough breed i would imagine u would be looking to pay anywhere between 600 and 1000 so dont be surprised!

Sandrease

Hello again, thank you for your replies. I really appreciate it.

TheMadHouse - surprisingly I found exactly Carol Ervine on the advertisment that she will have kittens in March. I contacted her yesterday already. What a small world! I'm glad to hear that she is a good breeder.

Minesajackdaniels- I have had a cat before but he was non-pedigree cat. And he was neutered.

Themadhouse

Alot of breeders are starting to neuter before homing kittens.
Carol is an excellent breeder, she used to breed bristsh short hairs too. I have coem across quite a lot of her cats and kittens at the shows and her standard of Maus are fantastic. They do extremely well.
Maybe you should ask her about a show quality one? It is great fun and you learn so much about breeds and breeders!
Her kittens will be reistered with the uk so if you get a kitten form her you will have to sned the pink slip back to them with a change of owndership. It'll cost around 9 pound. When you get that back you send it to the Irish one to register your kitten. Means kitten is yours, cant be disputed. On it will have active or non active, indicated whether or not you can breed from said kitten. Breeders will not give breeding(active) girls to people they dont know. There are very strick rules regarding this.
Good luck with your hunt!

Sandrease

Thank you TheMadHouse! Carol has told me that she is expecting kittens to arrive in March and when they will be 13 weeks old, they are rehomed. I think that cat can come to me already neutered/spayed...
Regarding, show quality one- do you mean that this cat could compete in cat shows? I'm not sure about that yet, haven't even thought about it... As far as I know, the cats she is selling, are pets.
And one more question, how she will make sure that kittens will go to good home only, will there be home-check and she surely needs to meet the buyer before she is giving away kittens... I know myself that I will be a good owner but how will I prove it to her? And is it possible to see kittens before they can go to the new home? I would like to just meet a cat, to see how they are doing? Do breeders allow early visits?

hadook

We visited our Devon Rex when he was only a few weeks old, well before he was ready to come home (and we travelled to Scotland to do it too!). I'd imagine the breeder should be happy to have you visit once the kittens are old enough, both to meet you and to see how you interact with your kitten.

Themadhouse

Dont worry, the breeder wil not give a kitten out to ahome she is unsure of. You will be questioned without even realising it most of the time! LIk emost who breed or rescue you can almost tell straight away wether it will be a good home or not.
I think the usual is around 8 wks to visit kittens, after they have had the first jab. But as Carol and see what she advises.
Like Hadook,
I visited Birmingham when one of my boys was only a few weeks old, flew over and back in a day.
WIth the lad from Kilkenny we had met his breeder at a show and went down just to see some of her other cats, saw 3 little babiies that had been born the week before and as it turned out one of them ended up being mine!
I think the breeeder likes to see your interaction with her cats, i think you can tell alot by that.
And you dont be afraid to ask as many questions as you want no ,matter how silly you think they might sound!

Ismishacats

Hi, just thought I'd give you a link to an advice guide I put together offering advice to prospective kitten owners http://www.freewebs.com/irishcats/advicetobuyers.htm

I put this website together as an information resource to help people interested in pedigree cats... hope it demystifies the Cat World a wee bit

Stephen

Ismisha Abyssinian, Burmese & Singapura Cats
www.freewebs.com/ismishacats

Ismishacats

The Sweeper wrote: »

There will be two kinds of pure bred kittens - show standard and pet standard. Show standard are also breeding standard. To me, I would give a breeder kudos if they offered to sell me a pet standard kitten and insisted I have it neutered. It shows concern for both the individual cat, and the breed they support.

Depending on the breed you're buying, there will usually be a price difference between a pet standard and show standard kitten. That price difference is sometimes more pronounced in 'patterned' cats like Egyptian Maus or Bengals because it's very obvious from the start whether they have good markings or dramatic markings.



In terms of adoption age, kittens can be weaned from five weeks onwards, but it's best if they stay with their mom and each other for longer than that. Eight weeks is a good target, personally I prefer closer to 10 weeks. You can have them neutered early and, if you can find a vet who's done the procedure on young kittens before, 10-12 weeks is as good a time as any. They recover more quickly than if they're older.

Not to nit-pick but show standard and breed standard are not the same. In the cat world there are show classes for neuters as well as entire cats. Kittens are not deemed suitable for breeding solely based upon show quality but also and most importantly on the value their genetic make-up has to contribute to the breed over all. A kitten whose pedigree/line has been over used or that breeding from will diminish the genetic diversity of the breed will not be deemed breeding quality by the reputable breeder, but may well (if it has excellent type) may be deemed as show standard (or more correctly as having show potential) and may be sold as a potential show neuter.

As far as age goes the regulations for age when a kitten can go to a new home is minimum of 13 weeks, and for two good reasons. Firstly the kitten will have been filly vaccinated by this age, and secondly behavioural research shows that it takes at least 12 weeks for a kitten to be properly socialised by its mother.

Hope this helps

Stephen

Ismisha Abyssinian, Burmese & Singapura Cats

www.freewebs.com/ismishacats

Magenta

OP to be honest, unless you plan to show or breed, I wouldn't bother getting a pedigree cat. I mean with dogs, you'd generally want some sort of knowledge of what breed(s) it is, because obviously if you only have enough room for a Chihuahua, you probably wouldn't have enough for a Great Dane, but cats don't have nearly as much physical diversity. Their exercise requirements are far more similar too. Non pedigree kittens are usually free and they are also usually completely random bred which means they come from a much bigger gene pool and therefore will have more hybrid vigour.

Ismishacats

breed selection is not about physical diversity, it's much more to do with a temperament that is suitable to your lifestyle... just as in dogs. Just as a Great Dane doesn't need as much exercise as a Wolfhound despite size similarities a British shorthair cat won't need as much human interaction as a Singapura.

Regarding hybrid vigour with non-ped kittens.... thats a generalisation as they don't have a pedigree to check how inbred or not they are! Moreover you have no way of knowing what hereditary diseases they carry given their ancestry is unknown and unrecorded... let alone the lack of genetic health tests and blood tests carried out on their parents... if they are even known. A pedigree cat on the other hand...not a problem it's all recorded. So you get what you pay for

Ismisha Abyssinian Burmese & Singapuras
www.freewebs.com/ismishacats

Magenta

Ismishacats wrote: »

you get what you pay for

Ismisha Abyssinian Burmese & Singapuras
www.freewebs.com/ismishacats

Actually, I did not pay for any of my cats, all but one were rescues and they range in age from 2 years to 18. In all the years I've had them, the only illness they've ever had between them was an ear infection.
And mine were all originally feral, so natural selection is in their breeding, which is pretty much absent in pedigrees. I don't believe any breeder can do a better job than Mother Nature However as a cat breeder you may be biased.

Ismishacats

Magenta wrote: »

Actually, I did not pay for any of my cats, all but one were rescues and they range in age from 2 years to 18. In all the years I've had them, the only illness they've ever had between them was an ear infection.
And mine were all originally feral, so natural selection is in their breeding, which is pretty much absent in pedigrees. I don't believe any breeder can do a better job than Mother Nature However as a cat breeder you may be biased.

My view comes not from the fact I breed cats, which is a hobby not a job, but from my qualifications as a veterinary nurse, someone who worked for the SPCA, a trained researcher and statistician, and someone who holds a MSc (master of science)

Your evidence or lack thereof is anecdotal... my view is backed by fact and hard science

Magenta

Ismishacats wrote: »

My view comes not from the fact I breed cats, which is a hobby not a job, but from my qualifications as a veterinary nurse, someone who worked for the SPCA, a trained researcher and statistician, and someone who holds a MSc (master of science)

Your evidence or lack thereof is anecdotal... my view is backed by fact and hard science

My non pedigree cats are healthy and happy and that's all I care about
Meow!

Ismishacats

Magenta wrote: »

My non pedigree cats are healthy and happy and that's all I care about
Meow!

That's wonderful, and I hope they stay that way. But your personal experience doesn't qualify your generalisation about pedigree cats or answer the original posters question seeking advice on looking for an Egyptian Mau in any constructive way.

Terms like "Hybrid Vigour" and "natural selection" are bandied round these days in overly simplistic ways without most people even understanding the basics of cat genetics or hereditary feline health. My point is that we can't even discuss hybrid vigour or genetic diversity unless we know the inbreeding coefficients of the cats in question ... we can't calculate this without a pedigree that goes back at least 10 to 15 generations and definitely can't assume non-pedigree cats inbreeding levels are not extremely high. In fact feral populations are generally highly inbred as cat society tends toward one dominant Tom siring most of the local kittens, these kittens' kittens, and as such for many generations until he is surpassed by (most likely) one of his also highly inbred sons... that's how natural selection is among free roaming cats.

Stephen

Magenta

Ismishacats wrote: »

That's wonderful, and I hope they stay that way. But your personal experience doesn't qualify your generalisation about pedigree cats or answer the original posters question seeking advice on looking for an Egyptian Mau in any constructive way.

Terms like "Hybrid Vigour" and "natural selection" are bandied round these days in overly simplistic ways without most people even understanding the basics of cat genetics or hereditary feline health. My point is that we can't even discuss hybrid vigour or genetic diversity unless we know the inbreeding coefficients of the cats in question ... we can't calculate this without a pedigree that goes back at least 10 to 15 generations and definitely can't assume non-pedigree cats inbreeding levels are not extremely high. In fact feral populations are generally highly inbred as cat society tends toward one dominant Tom siring most of the local kittens, these kittens' kittens, and as such for many generations until he is surpassed by (most likely) one of his also highly inbred sons... that's how natural selection is among free roaming cats.

Stephen

I got your point the first and second time.
I am happy with my non pedigree cats and I know my years of experience is not good enough for your standards, but I am happy with it.
By the way, you don't need to explain what an MSc is. I have one myself.

The Sweeper

Ismishcats, there is one definite flaw in your argument.

Your point about genetic diversity and careful breed management assumes that all cat breeders are reputable.

Just like dog breeders, many are not. Many breed for 'pet kittens', meaning they don't care much about the cat's background, genetic pool and so on, have no intention of showing or rebreeding the offspring, but because they just want someone who'll pay a couple of hundred quid for a kitten that looks a certain way.

I do agree with you on the hybrid vigour front - I don't believe it carries the weight it's thought to carry - especially since feral colonies will often inbreed. Additionally there are a myriad of conditions that a kitten can come depending whether or not its feral mother contracted something like cat flu while pregnant. You can't regulate for those when adopting a stray kitten from a rescue.

I also agree with your correction of my lumping show and breed standard into the one lot - you're dead right, there are neuter classes for showing. The point I was unsuccessfully trying to make was that a breeder who is trying to achieve the characteristics of a cat for show or breeding will try harder and be more interested in breed standard than one who just wants a litter to sell solely for the purpose of making money.

People also take cats on for a breed characteristic that they then realise they can't cope with - bengals and associated 'exotic' cats are a good example.

I have two bengal crosses (one of whom is currently judging the leaping distance from the top of his cat tree onto the slowly revolving ceiling fan, and the other of whom has just finished shredding a kitchen roll into confetti behind the couch), one blue burmese cross and two general moggies (who definitely learn behaviour from the other three, but wouldn't have been as 'bold' in their own behaviour had they never met the three intrepid adventurers).

The burmese cross I have is a perfect example of back yard breeding - his original owner bought himself two burmese female cats because he figured if he bred them he could make a thousand bucks a year at least selling the litters - one blue, one brown. He paid a good bit of money for the two intact females, who were beautiful cats. However, he was then seriously unimpressed with the stud fees that reputable breeders were quoting him, and also more unimpressed that in some cases they would not allow their stud cover his females when they realised what he was up to. He was going to get a stud himself but couldn't cope with the territory marking and peeing everywhere.

Subsequently, he allowed his two burmese females to have the run of the outdoors, where they produced at least four or five litters apiece over two and a half years, almost all of which kittens he drowned. He was finally reported to the authorities, and the cats were taken away from him. The blue burmese was immediately rehomed because she was in a terrible mental state. Her four kittens, who she had rejected, were fostered onto the brown burmese, whose litter the owner had drowned. The brown burmese and the four kittens came to me when the kittens were four weeks old.

They have all since been rehomed, but I kept the kitten whose temperament I couldn't calm - apparently more deeply affected by his start in life, he still hisses aggressively at people he doesn't know (doesn't run, stands his ground and hisses).

The upshot of all of this is simple: if you want a cat for look, instead of temperament, show, specific characteristics (which can never be guaranteed anyway), then I still think you'd do well to include the rescue centre in the places you're looking. You probably won't find an absolute match to a pure bred in moggy form, but you may find something with the colours you like. You may even find a pure bred needing a home - though its temperament might be questionable.

Anyway - the upshot is that buying a pure bred cat isn't "wrong" and I'm not trying to imply that - but buying a pure bred isn't a guarantee either, unless you've exhaustively researched the breed, the breeder, the kitten's parentage, and so on... And the sad part is many people won't do that, because they just want the look of "the grey cat".

On a happier note, I'll leave you with a couple of pictures. This is a blue burmese:



...and this is my blue burmese X:

Magenta

The Sweeper wrote: »

this is my blue burmese X

What a beautiful cat